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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 9:09:58 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		We're lifestyle friends too, not pro friends. The pro friends are all fakes.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 9:43:53 PM   
hematitan


Posts: 49
Joined: 6/25/2010
Status: offline 		I can relate to a lot of your frustration.

I came across the term "social dysphoria" a while back, which describes a lot of my feelings and sounds like it describes what you're going through, in that the "problem" isn't necessarily your body so much as how its appearance is tied to your gender in people's minds, and how people misgender you. While I do suffer from some bodily dysphoria, I think I wouldn't be as troubled by "looking like a woman" if it didn't mean people automatically assumed I'm a woman.

These days, the hardest thing for me is to be called "she" or "ma'am." And I hate that because of how I look and sound, I can't get away with correcting people.

And yeah, it's hard when transitioning isn't necessarily for you. At this point, I'm pretty sure I want top surgery, to the point where it's more a matter of "when" and "how" than "if." But aside from my chest, I'm mostly okay with my body, and while I'm open to the possibility of hormones, I don't know yet if it's something I want. However, I've recently realized that if I don't, I'll probably always be seen as a woman. And that feels really unfair. It shouldn't have to be that way.

But you're definitely not alone, and there's nothing wrong with you.

Don't lose sight of what you've got. I hope one day I can find a partner who accepts and loves me for who I am, and sometimes I worry I never will. Hearing about people who have gives me a bit of hope.

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 9:24:33 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxsGirl
My genderlessness/multigender is starting to bother me.  I'm not sure why it would bother me now - I'm 30 years old and have been what I am for as long as I can remember.  I'm not trandgendered (despite ocassionally listing that on my profile, something I do only because there is no category for me here on cm).  I have a female body, but am not female.  My mind is mostly male, but I'm not male.  I'm a gay boy (not a man) in a female body who likes to wear women's clothing.  Some days I switch back and forth between the two, some days I'm a curious mix of both.  I don't even know what to make of myself anymore.

Alpha is a gay man, and yet he accepts me, despite what I am.  It's a miracle that I try not to question.  I guess I'm questioning now because I'm away from him, and my insecurities tend to crop up when we're separated.  What makes a gay man want a boything with a girl's body?  Or, if you see it this way, a girl with a boy's mind.  Or a boy/girl mind, or who the fuck knows what.

I here people call me "she" at work and around town, and it upsets me.  But at the same time I have no intention of taking hormones, having any surgeries, etc. - my body is what it is, and I feel no need to change it.  I wish, though, that my gender was more questionable to those who don't know me.  Despite my usual preference for female clothes (I'm have hips, so they fit me better) I hate appearing as unquestionably female.  I have no options.

I don't know what to do with myself.  I am nothing.  I fit into no category.  I am accepted nowhere, by no one.  I know from sad experience that even transgendered people think I'm a freak.  I would love to find a community of people who would know who I am, and want me around anyway.  I haven't found that in MaST, BR, BESS, Crucible, or any other local groups.  I haven't found it in the Pagan community either (it doesn't help that many of them are not accepting of M/s).  I am accepted nowhere, by no one.  So where does that leave me?

I know this is more of a rant than a question, and there probably is no answer for me.  I just needed to get it out.

You didn't ask a question, so would you mind if I asked one?

If it's confusing for you, and you're living it, can you understand that maybe it can be confusing for other people, too?

What I mean by that is, please don't be upset when people make innocent mistakes in saying "she" if we don't happen to have access to certain information.  The only reason that I knew that you prefer "he" is because I saw it on another thread.  If I hadn't, I wouldn't know any better.  It's not like I can unscrew your head and see the big label that's on there that says "male" in big red letters.  (That was supposed to at least try to sound funny.  I think it flopped.)  Other than that, I'm just kind of working with what I've got.

Lots of folks will be glad to call you what you would like to be called, but we have to know what that is.  If you don't tell us, there's a good chance we're going to get it wrong.  Even then, we might still make a mistake and slip up because humans just plain aren't perfect.

Absolutely, he it is and we can even go with Maxsboy if you'd like.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 10:26:14 AM   
tiggerspoohbear


Posts: 19141
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline 		You can only be the best *you* you can be.  You have friends and others here who will accept that you'd rather be referred to as "he".  Count me in that group now too.  You have someone who loves you very much, that's more than some people here have.  I should know, I'm one of them.  I know how mean and ill-mannered people can be, and how tough it is to ignore them. 

I call myself a BBW but I also don't kid myself that I'm fat.  No two ways about it.  And if people don't like it, then they can take their assholishness and shove it where the sun don't shine.  If ya don't like what I look like, then don't look.  I'm the best me I can be, faults and all.  At the age of 48 I know it's not getting easier, but I still have hope.  But I'd rather be by myself than with someone I've settled for.  I refuse to do that anymore, I deserve the best.  So do you, and you seem to have found it, a man who loves you very much. 

Sometimes we have to accept that other people won't accept us for who we are, and it ain't a bed of roses.  But we are who we are and nothing can change that.  Again, be who you are and know that you have friends here who accept you for who you are.  Online friends can be just as good as, if not better at times, than r/l friends.  I'd like to think that's who you have here.  People who'll accept you for who you feel yourself to be, and live your life as you want to live it.

**If any of this sounds jumbled, and it probably does, I'm tired, I hurt and I'm dizzy as all hell.  My intentions are good though, and I mean every twisted up word or sentence I've stated.  Bless you darlin', you're accepted here. 


_____________________________

"RABBIT IS GOOD, RABBIT IS WISE".

"I'm a baaa-aaad pussycat".


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 10:46:57 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		Other than being dominant rather than submissive, everything you've said is my story as well.

I've come to terms with living in a body that lets me do really, really good drag.  Gender is a game I play, but I don't own it and it doesn't own me.  When I was younger, I spent a year living alone and considering whether I wanted or needed to transition, and the answer was no, I'm okay in the body I was born with, even if no single gender body can accurately reflect who or what I am.   I don't know whether that will be the final answer for you, or even if it is truly the final answer for me. 

I identify as "genderqueer" and I have run all out of give-a-fuck that other people, including other trans people, don't understand how I can present as a heterosexual cisgender female and still consider myself on the trangender spectrum.  Labels aren't important, and whether someone considers me trans or not, female or not, male or not, is just not important to me any more. 

I was born with two X chromosones and am physiologically female in every respect, but actively being female feels to me like an act or a role in which I am essentially an impostor.  Actively being male feels a bit more comfy, but I am also acutely aware that I am physically entirely female and not transitioning or interested in transitioning, so I'm an impostor in that role as well.  This used to bug me a lot more than it does now, but after wrestling with gender identity for pretty much my entire adult life, I've pretty much come to terms with being queerer than a three-dollar bill, queerer than queer people even, and just not fitting into ANY of the molds.  I am who I am, and that is enough for me.  If it's not enough for someone else, they can go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut, 'cause I'm not willing to let it bother me. 


_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 11:43:44 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Wow, that got me to thinking LnT. I'm genetically male and don't really have any gender confusion. but then again, I don't know that I have a strong image of "male behavior" or "female behavior". I tend to think in terms of "human behavior". There are certainly broad and rampant parts of my personality that are usually associated with females. Carol and I have remarked on them many a time. I just don't think it ever occurred to me to question... or even value... my "masculinity". I have no idea what that word means beyond something in a Rambo movie.

All of which makes me wonder. Had I grown up a little less vanilla white-bread, perhaps I'd be "playing the gender game" also. As it is, it's just invisible to me. I didn't break out of any particular role but I didn't accept them either. I've just gone about my life being me. Predictably "me" hasn't always been pleasing to everyone around me but hey, what's a guy to do? ~chuckles~

~Jeff

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 12:27:36 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxsGirl


I don't know what to do with myself.  I am nothing.  I fit into no category.  I am accepted nowhere, by no one. 



FWIW, and I understand this may not offer any solace, but you are very valuable to me. In this medium all I know of you is what you post here. I have the luxury of participating in your life, voyeuristicly, and appreciating all that I learn, see, chuckle over and feel empathy for.

I have this terrible dissociative disorder, sexes (male n female) really have little or no meaning to me here, and often in real life. My sexuality had, in the past spurred debate, but I am a lesbian tried and true. I have never been attracted to a man in any way, shape or form and when I wake up with a luvly girl in bed with me I wonder why she doesn't just call the police because of this unattractive thing is in the bed with her. Nope, I do not find me attractive (please don't flame me over that one, it's my issues that I have to deal with), the person you see me as is not the same person I see.

I am very confident with who I am and know what I want/need. So for me to call women beautiful, by god I mean it... same thing for the men, when I say you are fukin handsome/gorgeous, I mean it... I'm not attracted to you, but can acknowledge your comeliness.

Back to the dissociative thing... I flirt an play indiscriminately and crawl over the booby thread and have lots of fun with it, however I see the person first and the boobs as superfluous. I like the person and that is enough for me. I could crawl into a bathtub with many of the members here and we could wash each others feet, but it would be tricky for me to respond sexually and imposable if the bath buddy was male. I would still get in the tub with him nonetheless.Sexual attraction is a monstrously complicated creature for me that has to hit on soooo many levels before I get that DING! 

From your OP I can see the weight you are carrying and I would love to be able to lighten the load. The best I can do, is to point out that: your value to me is the person that you are, not your genetics, not your label... the person you are.

YMMV
SLURP~


_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 12:36:51 PM   
0ldhen


Posts: 2221
Joined: 12/27/2010
From: Henhouse in Trolltopia, Harleyville USA
Status: offline

Who are you?

From all I've read of your postings you are a lucky gayboy who happens to have a vagina that some wonderful gay man is in love with.

A wise man once said to me" Be who you are, and fuck em if they can't take a joke"

_____________________________

Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't.

Za'beeta Regal, Et Vogo O' Lurwadra'd Wyka Go Abosh Inunsey.

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 1:04:17 PM   
MaxsGirl


Posts: 355
Joined: 12/2/2010
From: The Arctic Circle
Status: offline 		You all are quality people, and I appreciate each and every one of you.

To answer LP (and some others, I think) I realize that I confuse people.  I certainly do not blame anyone who mistakes me for female - how are they to know otherwise?  But holding them blameless doesn't change the fact that it often bothers me.  After talking to Alpha about this last night, we've decided that I'm going to start dressing in a more masculine way.  It won't change anything but how I appear to others (I'm what I am, and any changes will progress at their own pace), but it will make me more comfortable.  I'm also thinking of deleting my current account and starting one as MaxsBoy instead.  Less confusing all around that way.  The only reason I started one under my current name was because it matched my fetlife name.  I have no idea why I had that as my fetlife name.  Indulging my cognitive dissonance, I guess.

I really do value all of you, and the advice and support you've given me.  I think the time for me to stop waffling and make decisions is coming - perhaps not soon, but soon enough.  I feel confident that here, at least, I will have people to lean on along the way.

_____________________________

Property of rubbrdsir

Collared Fox and
Future Thru-Hiker!

(in reply to 0ldhen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 1:19:02 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaVXfHZv50Y

I'm glad you are taking steps to make yourself more comfortable. Dress however you want...you'll be attractive in pants or a skirt.

But do me one favour...if you do change your profile, then please do include the pic of your bum...I likes me fine heinie regardless of the gender of its owner

Wanders off humming to himself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taOFLVnAIgY

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 1:23:11 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		sounds like a bunch of good ideas, MG, or rather MB -- sometimes the first steps are the hardest and scariest, but it's all worth it once you get moving.
good luck ^_^


_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 1:43:43 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxsGirl

I'm also thinking of deleting my current account and starting one as MaxsBoy instead. 


I damn sure better get duct tape hood ornament pics. (Crosses my arms over my chest all domly and shit).

SLURP~


_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 2:26:51 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one who hasn't seen the OP's bum.  

OP, I want you to do whatever it is that you think will make it better.  If that's different clothes, go for it.  Name change?  Go for that too if it makes you happy.  Telling people so that they know how to address you is a good thing so you don't have to feel the way you've been feeling at least in this little corner of the world.  I know it's complicated, but the way I see it, that's still an improvement, right?

You gotta work with us cig-gender privileged folks sometimes.  We don't mean any harm, but we have to be educated.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 2:59:03 PM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		I have been thinking about this thread and was concerned that perhaps my post came out a bit condescending; it was not meant to be.

I feel that what you are going through, though painful, is what most  people go through to acheive real true (sorry, sometimes I really can't help myself) adulthood. 90% of people just live their lives and never manage the self discovery and self realization that makes you an insightful person. Insightful about yourself, and about others. This is why I am drawn to this lifestyle (get ready for the sweeping generalization) b/c most involved have had to go through that painful period of self discovery to get where they are.

You are on the road less traveled. Is it a harder trek? Hell yes. But the view is fantastic.

Just my three cents for tonight.


_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 3:13:01 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one who hasn't seen the OP's bum.  



Nope.  I thought I was.  I went off to perv... and yup! The boy's got a way cute bum. Lucky dog, that Alpha.

And Maxsboy--
If you need any help/tips with passing, there's a bunch of us (around your age) who would be happy to assist.  Sometimes it's just finding the right clothing.....or wearing it just so...sometimes the smallest nuances make the difference between passing and not passing.     (and there's no need to discard the girlie clothes if you still like wearing them--because believe it or not, there ARE cross-dressers in the FTM world.  yup. go figure.)

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 5:49:08 PM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline 		To the OP:

First, forgive my ignorance, but it's always seemed to me that gender identity is a separate thing from sexual orientation. Is that in fact, true in most cases?

With that said, four years ago, when I first came to CM I was FREAKING out about what to call myself and what all the stupid checkboxes meant and what if I called myself something and I was wrong and someone figured out I was wrong and called myself the wrong thing and OMG they were going to laugh at me and I was going to look like an idiot and I had no idea what I was talking about and was I dominiant OR submissive OR a switch OR...OR....and...OR...and...

It gave me such a FUCKING HEADACHE!!

But after I time, I came to think of this "label" thing just as a way to give people who didn't really know me, but were interested in learning about me, a bit of a shortcut into my inner map. Does it mean they now knew everything about me as a person? Of course not. Someone would have to have many ongoing conversations with me (or anyone) to get to know them better. But like I said, the label just allows others to start out the journey in the right direction. Sometimes getting to know someone is a very direct and exact route. Sometimes, the route is confusing and very circuitous. Is either route better than the other? Fuck no. How boring would that be?

I won't begin to pretend that I could possibly comprehend the struggles you face. I can only offer compassion and a shoulder to lean on. But I hope that you aren't thinking that "the grass is greener" for someone who can easily check off "male or female" and "straight/gay or bi" boxes because they probably are dealing with a whole lotta fucked up issues that would have you thinking, "Thank goodness that's not me!"

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 5:50:41 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My only suggestion concerning the clothing is to find yourself a really excellent tailor who can fit men's clothes to your body so you still appear male. Off the rack doesn't fit anyone, everybody does better to find a tailor. You may need to spend more on tailoring than most, but it can be done.

Most dry cleaners have a tailor of some sorts. The best tailor/seamstress I know owns a tuxedo shop. She alters female and male clothes and has a loyal following. Go talk to various tailors.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 5:58:20 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		or find the lady in town who does the local prom dresses -- a lot of times these little ladies are super friendly, fantastically skilled, and won't charge you a fortune. we have one back home who can sew or alter anything you throw at her. 

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 7:02:37 PM   
peachgirl


Posts: 396
Joined: 6/25/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxsGirl
Maybe I'm just lonely - I wish there were someone like me here, but there just isn't.


I think this is really important. It's really hard to go day to day without a buddy, a friend, someone that you have a lot in common with. Most of us are social creatures and it's a tough need to leave unfulfilled. Having someone to just chat up really takes the edge off when you are different. It's easier to let the little things slide and takes the edge off of the big stuff.

I have to second the vote on therapy. As you said, we live in a label-driven society. The key is how you let that affect you. You have the power to control the level of influence this will have on your life. Therapy will help you with that.

Whatever road you choose, I wish you good luck.


< Message edited by peachgirl -- 3/15/2011 7:03:14 PM >

_____________________________

Have you seen that girl in the corner?
I'd like to take her out of her chains
Cause if I had my way with you baby
I would be changing your life today.
- Bob Welch

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: I don't know what I am - 3/15/2011 8:14:02 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My only suggestion concerning the clothing is to find yourself a really excellent tailor who can fit men's clothes to your body so you still appear male. Off the rack doesn't fit anyone, everybody does better to find a tailor. You may need to spend more on tailoring than most, but it can be done.

Most dry cleaners have a tailor of some sorts. The best tailor/seamstress I know owns a tuxedo shop. She alters female and male clothes and has a loyal following. Go talk to various tailors.



Here's the challenge I encountered with tailors...and the same issue with barbers.
They saw me as female....and continued to cut my hair in a way that wasn't completely male....and tailored "masculine" but not male-- despite pleas, demands and insistence.

It's not just about body shape although that is definitely part of it.  A HUGE part of it is looking not only gender appropriate but age appropriate.  I had the brain of a 25 year old--but the physique of a 14 year old.  When I wore custom tailored clothing--I looked like a very well dressed dyke.  (my ex loved it--but I wasn't passing, which was the end goal.)  I looked at what other 14 year olds wore, and when I dressed like them, I passed.

The bad part?  Who the hell wants to be a 14 year old boy?  It was okay for a summer or two, but once I was getting into my 20's, I was tired of getting hassled by strangers for "skipping school" and smoking. 

You can definitely make it work off the rack, but many of us found a need to completely change what we wore, where we wore and how we wore it.  I loved form fitting shirts--but they completely gave away my curves.  I switched brands--and wore men's shirts--and found a good combination that worked.  I learned to wear jeans lower on the waist, and got lots of tips from guys who were gentle about it, but told me what I needed to do to pass better.

I went to a men's barbershop with my (ex) wife.  She was much larger than me--and was older--she told me to go sit in the chair and told the barber--"his hair is mess.  Give him something clean cut like a high and tight, like his father has."  Best frickin' hair cut I ever got.....and I kept going back to the same barber--never had an issue after that.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 40
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