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I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 5:53:06 PM   
MaxsGirl


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If this should be in random stupidity, I apologize and request that you move it.  I didn't know where to post.

My genderlessness/multigender is starting to bother me.  I'm not sure why it would bother me now - I'm 30 years old and have been what I am for as long as I can remember.  I'm not trandgendered (despite ocassionally listing that on my profile, something I do only because there is no category for me here on cm).  I have a female body, but am not female.  My mind is mostly male, but I'm not male.  I'm a gay boy (not a man) in a female body who likes to wear women's clothing.  Some days I switch back and forth between the two, some days I'm a curious mix of both.  I don't even know what to make of myself anymore.

Alpha is a gay man, and yet he accepts me, despite what I am.  It's a miracle that I try not to question.  I guess I'm questioning now because I'm away from him, and my insecurities tend to crop up when we're separated.  What makes a gay man want a boything with a girl's body?  Or, if you see it this way, a girl with a boy's mind.  Or a boy/girl mind, or who the fuck knows what.

I here people call me "she" at work and around town, and it upsets me.  But at the same time I have no intention of taking hormones, having any surgeries, etc. - my body is what it is, and I feel no need to change it.  I wish, though, that my gender was more questionable to those who don't know me.  Despite my usual preference for female clothes (I'm have hips, so they fit me better) I hate appearing as unquestionably female.  I have no options.

I don't know what to do with myself.  I am nothing.  I fit into no category.  I am accepted nowhere, by no one.  I know from sad experience that even transgendered people think I'm a freak.  I would love to find a community of people who would know who I am, and want me around anyway.  I haven't found that in MaST, BR, BESS, Crucible, or any other local groups.  I haven't found it in the Pagan community either (it doesn't help that many of them are not accepting of M/s).  I am accepted nowhere, by no one.  So where does that leave me?

I know this is more of a rant than a question, and there probably is no answer for me.  I just needed to get it out.



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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 5:58:23 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxsGirl
I don't know what to do with myself.  I am nothing.  I fit into no category.  I am accepted nowhere, by no one.

Not true on all three counts.  You are not nothing, you are a human being. You fit into at least one category -- "MaxsGirl". I would accept you... not as a potential lover, but certainly as a friend, confidant, and pretty much any other relationship than sexual partner.

I would love to find a community of people who would know who I am, and want me around anyway.
You need to find better friends.

I haven't found that in MaST, BR, BESS, Crucible, or any other local groups.
You need a better MAsT group. Man, the two that I've been in accepted an awful lot. I can't imagine either of them flipping over gender questions at all.

So where does that leave me?
Right where you are?

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:06:42 PM   
Jennislut


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quote:

Alpha is a gay man, and yet he accepts me, despite what I am.
then who cares about the rest.
and im with jeff - except id be willing to go sex partner as well - you have a cute bum


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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:06:56 PM   
MaxsGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527


So where does that leave me?
Right where you are?


And there's the problem.  My relationship with Alpha is the only satisfying aspect of my life at the moment, and that's pretty sad.  Over the last few years I've become increasingly more open about my gender identity (or lack thereof) and it has lost me friends, activities I used to enjoy, and I believe it lost me a job last summer.  I guess that's why I wish the decision could be taken from me by a more andogynous appearance - if people have to ask me what I am, it leaves the door open for me to explain.  If they can assume female, I can keep hiding behind that assumption rather than having to come out of whatever closet I'm currently stuck in.

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:06:57 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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I recently made a new acquaintance/friend who identifies as agender/non-gendered.  The individual has a female body but leans toward the masculine.  I get a vibe, for lack of a better word, of a femme gay boy.  In your case, I think "genderqueer" might be an apt descriptor. 
 
I know trans folks who prefer neutral pronouns such as "ze/zir" and others who prefer binary pronouns that coincide with how they present (as opposed to the bodies they got at birth).  My new buddy doesn't really care either way.  Which would you prefer?  I've been thinking of you as "she" but, if you prefer something else, let me know and I'll go with it.
 
If it helps at all, I like ya just the way you are. 

< Message edited by SylvereApLeanan -- 3/14/2011 6:08:47 PM >


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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:09:39 PM   
MaxsGirl


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Sylvere, I'm not sure.  I prefer "he" for now because I haven't found a better pronoun.

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:14:08 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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Fair enough, he it is. 
 
I'm currently struggling to come up with an appropriate pronoun for my buddy.  I'm about to write and ask how the person feels about "they/them/their" as a neutral or if there's a better option.  I've even looked into Japanese neutral forms since the person is fluent in that language.  That might be an option for you.
 
And I second the "cute bum".

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:33:43 PM   
gungadin09


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For what it's worth, i think you're cool. i've always enjoyed reading your posts.

pam

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:39:47 PM   
DarkSteven


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I'm a bit confused. Due to your username, I always thought of you as female. Even when in PMs to me, you hinted that your gender wasn't that clear, I considered you a female.

Not that it matters much to me.

I'm not sure why the identity means so much to you. Yeah, it's nice knowing which public restroom to use.... but to me, the major issue is how to fit into relationships, and you gave that covered.

And yes, you do have a nice caboose.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:49:55 PM   
MaxsGirl


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The issue is that we're in a label driven society, so not having a way to define myself puts me at an emotional and social disadvantage.  If I have to choose who "my people" are (and experience has taught me that I do) then I'm SOL.  I don't have a people.  I'm not straight, but I'm not gay either considering my female physiology.  I'm not of any clear gender.  "Normal" people irl don't accept me, and neither do those on the other side.  I hide my gender/s because it can be a safety issue, and also because I have learned firsthand the kind of scorn and mistreatment that is handed out to people like me.  Fitting into a romantic relationship is all well and good (and believe me, it is very good) but there are other important relationships, and I don't seem to fit into those unless I hide part of who I am.  And if I have to do that, what kind of relationship is it, really?  Maybe I'm just lonely - I wish there were someone like me here, but there just isn't.

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:50:44 PM   
pyroaquatic


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Max's Girl... boy.... person. If there was a procedure in which we could switch bodies I would love to do so. I identify with what you are saying.

I have gone through life as an amorphous cloud and typically not feeling like the 'boy/man' I physically am. At some points I am the rain and other points I am a river. Sometimes I am both or neither. I am vapor.

The teasing did not really stop until after I graduated high school. Not like the other boys this one... so... effeminate, receptive, emotional.

Inside I feel like a woman-at times-that is physically a man that is attracted to both genders. Wishing that I was born a woman so I can touch a woman in a womanly way. Damn this thing hanging between these legs.

This permanent strap on.

I'm not going to change who I am for the world and have since accepted that this is the way things are going to be. I say I am a lesbian trapped inside of the body of a man and people laugh thinking I am joking.

You found someone that loves you for who you are that thinks you are fine the way you are. So you don't know what you are. You found someone that can part the clouds.




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As your desire is, so is your will.
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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:52:45 PM   
MaxsGirl


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Oh, and thanks for all the nice comments on my butt.

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 6:54:17 PM   
littlewonder


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have you talked to a therapist who could try to help you figure out who you are? There are specialists out there who can at least help you to identify certain aspects of you, point you in other directions, towards others like you, etc....



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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 7:09:12 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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as far as lost friends go, sometimes you have to clear out the weeds, so that new, lovelier stuff can grow. it's generally uncomfortable, but when you start finding new flowers in there, it makes it worth it.
i'll try to remember the "he" from now on. you're a complex, adorable, EXTREMELY thoughtful person, and for that, you're pretty awesome. i think it's nice when people share bits of themselves like this.

i hope you find where you fit; not fitting in is difficult, especially when it's something considered so "concrete" as gender. even trans and homosexual people can be pretty rigid on stuff like that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic
You found someone that loves you for who you are that thinks you are fine the way you are. So you don't know what you are. You found someone that can part the clouds.

that's beautifully said and spot on -- if only we could all be that lucky. ^_^

*hugs* to you


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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 7:26:18 PM   
kalikshama


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My mind is often male, especially when it comes to relationships and navigating. I always attributed it to too much testosterone or cultural messages. Your post is giving me a lot to think about.

quote:

I guess I'm questioning now because I'm away from him, and my insecurities tend to crop up when we're separated.


Because of some of your previous posts, this makes me think of my Husky, who had separation anxiety when we first rescued him. He was only destructive when he felt abandoned. So for a while he was "24/7 Baby" - Robert brought him to work and I slept with him and when Kimberley joined us, she was backup.

As time went by, he lost his anxiety, and was fine being home alone for a few hours on the weekends, and became the bestest dog in the whole world.

Hugs from me and Husky Spirit.






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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 7:30:46 PM   
MaxsGirl


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That's definitely me.  I should probably be crated when Alpha isn't around, just to keep me and the furniture safe.

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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 7:59:30 PM   
Arpig


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I really feel for you...gender confusion is not something I can relate to, but it must be really confusing and frightening. As to the friends you lost...well they were no friend to begin with. From what you post, I'd be proud to call you a friend, and I don't care what your gender or orientation...that's just window dressing on your soul, and its your soul that counts. I second littlewonder's suggestion of therapy...it might help you be more comfortable with who you are.

Don't let the ignoramuses and haters get you down...you are a beautiful person just the way you are, and you have somebody who loves you just the way you are...a lot of us would envy you that.

And for what its worth, I agree about your bum...yeah, I'd tap that!


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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 8:15:49 PM   
daintydimples


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You want us to use he, but your username is maxsgirl? Er yeah some confusion there. But pls what are you confused about? Your plumbing is female.Check. Your mind is male. Check. You appear to be a mix of male and female. Check. Welcome to the human race. We are all different in our own way. Some are more dual natured than others, I know this as I am.

I am a switch, am very female in appearance, but in many ways have a very male brain. Okay. Accept who you are. What it this loneliness and all? Because you are different, this is a reason to celebrate, not comisserate.  Many many people are gender confused or challenged. You aren't  -- you know what you are. And your understanding of yourself will deepen in time. Look to acceptance of who you are, there is nothing wrong with it, b/c it is. Learn to love your dual nature.

Are you everyone's cup of tea, well hell no and thank goodness, who wants to be?




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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 8:34:26 PM   
hausboy


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Heya Maxsg/b-

First, take a nice deep breath and look at the bigger picture-- you have a wonderful man, who is going to marry you soon, who adores you and loves you for who you are, how you are, kinks and all....gender and all.  It's not a fluke.  Not a miracle.  It's just a good, good thing.....I haven't met him yet but I'm willing to bet he just plain loves you, and what makes you different from other people may even part of what he finds so damn wonderful about you.  You are not a freak, well...not in the bad way... this is CollarMe, after all....  but you have tremendous value and gifts as a person and there is a place for you.  If you aren't getting that support where you are now....you may need to do a little more exploring to seek out  people who will accept you for you. 

I completely understand the gender thing. 30 was my magic number too, ironically.  I started cross-living (unintentionally) at a very young age--and then deliberately cross-living at 21.  Even though I cross-lived--I identified as a genderqueer, a boi, ambiguous, stone butch, androgyne, even as a "teenage" boy for a short  period--nothing felt right.  I felt ostracized in the women's/dyke community.... I loved gay men and a good number of my closest friends were gay boys....but in the end, they couldn't get beyond my parts, and they still saw me a something different. The straight world had no place for me at the time--I just felt like I was sitting on my own island.   I was very vocal about NOT transitioning--about living a life without surgeries or hormones....so I wasn't exactly welcomed into the FTM community either.   I proudly wore my title: FREAK.   It was California--I found plenty of other genderqueer, androgynous freaks and formed our own little freaky family for a while.

My roommates were all pagans and a few practicing witches, so I'm a bit surprised that you haven't found any support within that community, but won't discount your experiences there. Baltimore is not San Fran, that's for sure.  For me, for so many years, the only place I found any support, solace and safety was in the leather community.  The queer leather community accepted me completely for who I was--would call me whatever I wanted--and allowed me safe space to indulge myself to be anyone and anything.  I could come to the dungeon with a theatre moustache and an oversized dick one week.....a pink tutu the next.  No one cared--viva la difference.

And all through my 20's living in SF, I seemed to be in a perpetual state of pissed off-- I'd get called "she" in one part of town where I didn't pass a boy....and it made me mad.  Then I'd go cross town....pass as a boy...but get harassed by the shops because they thought I was some little 15 year punk-boy coming into their store to do some shoplifting.  I'd leave pissed.  I remember one night after my BDSM AA/NA meeting (gawd I miss that group!), we all had dinner at a local diner.  Someone referred to me as "he"....a close friend said "oh, what the hell?  when you change to male pronouns?" and I sat while the entire table debated what to call me.  I was just sick of it.  It was in my face, every single day, without any respite.  "He" didn't fit....I hated the "she" pronoun.... and each year that went by, it just seemed like the war between my body and my brain got more and more vicious.

When I hit 30--I went through my "saturn's return" and my whole life was just shook upside down.  For me (and this is ME. You will need to find your own path, and there are many different paths to take) I finally decided that my decision to live "as is" and not transitioning was no longer working and I had to do what I had sworn up, down, sideways and to hundreds of people, publicly,  that I'd never do--transition.  There are other options--some easier than others--you'll just have to determine what option works best for you for the "here and now."  It may change down the road, give yourself plenty of slack.

Be kind to yourself, embrace this great guy you have who loves you--I have many FTM friends in gay relationships so if you ever get that voice in your head that says "how can he love me when my parts don't match what gay men want" I'll let you talk to some true blue certifiable gay boys who are in loving, committed relationships with FTMs in various stages of transition with every configuration under the sun.  Love is love.  (parts are just parts)

And really.  I *do* owe you guys a cuppa coffee--CMail me your schedules and we'll all have some java.



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RE: I don't know what I am - 3/14/2011 8:48:33 PM   
MaxsGirl


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And hausboy comes through for me yet again.  Thank you.  Thank you so very much.

You've all given me a lot to think about, and I appreciate all the kind words and c-mails.  It's good to know that I at least have friends here.

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