RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 7:05:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I think a lot of Liberals would go insane with rage if Americans elected someone with business experience



We elected Truman.

Epic Failure again, Tom.




Sanity -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 7:08:12 AM)


Back when Democrats were still decent Americans.

Who said, "Ask not what your country can do for you"

Can you imagine any dem saying that today?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I think a lot of Liberals would go insane with rage if Americans elected someone with business experience



We elected Truman.

Epic Failure again, Tom.




MrRodgers -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 7:11:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
He certainly knows his way around bankruptcy courts.

Tazzy, I wish the people in Washington knew about bankruptcy courts instead of using *our money* to bailout big corporations.

Well it's obvious you do not know about bankruptcy. For there to be a bankruptcy the first step in managements fiduciary responsibility is to explore chapter 11 (chapter 7 is liquidation) which is a financial reorganization...something about which say Trump could give you a real education.

Chapter 11 requires...requires what is called 'debtor-in-possession financing' where the great and glorious 'free market' said no, we are not taking that on. So all that remained was chapt. 7. The right in this country screams jobs but didn't give a shit about the jobs lost in chapt. 7. Why am I not surprised ?

...but not the big banks...just too big to fail ? We have thrown $Trillions...yes that's right $trillions of your tax money at banking, agric., oil, technology among others in various forms over the last 40-50 years, why only now is this a problem and with certain unmentioned big corps. ?

I don't know that the people would have it any worse if we had let a couple or even 3-4 big banks on wall street...go bankrupt. Now go look at the numbers and come back tell us which costs society more.




mnottertail -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 7:21:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Back when Democrats were still decent Americans.

Who said, "Ask not what your country can do for you"

Can you imagine any dem saying that today?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I think a lot of Liberals would go insane with rage if Americans elected someone with business experience



We elected Truman.

Epic Failure again, Tom.



Only when it is followed by:

- ask what you can do for your country.


Then we'll say it in droves.  Something conservatives shun, in favor of corporate monarchy.

You guys are throwing Ike and Abe under the bus.

I told you all a long time ago, I am the only republican on this board (save maybe Tim and a couple others), the chickens are coming home to roost in you nativists and Know Nothings.  Should have never let you in, in the first place, and should never have given you any footing in the party. 




mnottertail -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 7:51:09 AM)

Here is your chance to regale us with your right reason. your logic. your facts, eschewing personal attacks and other various and sundry fallacies, and give us reasons to believe:

OK, then explain why you favor the exact opposite of this, without throwing Ike under the bus  (i.e. in light of your numerous authoritative posts on say, BP and the gulf, as  a sort of microcosm of your weltaschuuang):

ISSUE 1:
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

  • and is gravely to be regarded.





Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.



Dwight David Eisenhower

(aside:      do you watch the very conservative to at most moderate centrist The McLaughlin Group on PBS?   LOL, I thought not).

I ask you: SANITY!  




MrRodgers -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 8:21:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Back when Democrats were still decent Americans.

Who said, "Ask not what your country can do for you"

Can you imagine any dem saying that today?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I think a lot of Liberals would go insane with rage if Americans elected someone with business experience

We elected Truman.

Epic Failure again, Tom.


Give us the repub businessmen that have been elected to the presidency. NONE. Truman and Carter were much more successful as businessmen as any repubs I've seen in the white house. H. W. doesn't count because he went to the CIA right out of college and was 'awarded' an oil co. conveniently situated off shore for him to more effectively cover his 'management' the Cuban zone.

Oh and as for the OP, the GOP in 2012 will do their thing, have their fun, recruit a few temps, add a few drops to the economy and bury TV in money, then they will ALL go home...feeling they gave it a good try.




mnottertail -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 8:26:10 AM)

W the bankrupt? (Our version of Aethelred the Unready)  You have qualms about his business acumen?

Hoover?






willbeurdaddy -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 9:20:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

You do realize that he has absolutely no experience in any of the things you mentioned? 


So he has as much experience there as 0bama0, and more business experience?

Seriously, the guy can be pretty appealing when he talks about restoring the American economy....



Trump is all show except in real estate and self-promotion. He's obviously got good sense of the state and near term future of the economy, but I dont see him having competencies in any other area. There are pros and cons to his celebrity and name recogntion because I get the sense that purple state voters may associate him with Wall Street.




mnottertail -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 9:41:00 AM)

So, there appears to be no great white hope on the horizon?




hlen5 -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 9:56:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

ISSUE 1:
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence --....................... We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
Dwight David Eisenhower
  


It's amazing he nailed this so well over 50 years ago!!

ETA: Too bad Ike can't run again!!




mnottertail -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 9:57:40 AM)

I am going to post Abraham Lincoln one of these days and further embarrass the RINOs.




slvemike4u -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 10:14:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I think a lot of Liberals would go insane with rage if Americans elected someone with business experience

Much like a lot of Conservatives are insane with rage now that Americans have elected someone of color ?




hlen5 -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 10:15:15 AM)

[;)][:)]

Lincoln is a Republican I would have voted for. If I could have voted back then, anyway.




ModTwentyOne -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 10:56:56 AM)

[sm=mop.gif] Cleanup on aisle three just ran the gamut of personal attacks, off topic, quoting posts that needed to be pulled, etc. If your post disappeared and you TRULY do not think it fell into one of those categories, please drop me a note. HOWEVER, taking the political discussion to my inbox is not going to help your case.

Thanks.

Mod21




popeye1250 -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 11:21:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
He certainly knows his way around bankruptcy courts.

Tazzy, I wish the people in Washington knew about bankruptcy courts instead of using *our money* to bailout big corporations.

Well it's obvious you do not know about bankruptcy. For there to be a bankruptcy the first step in managements fiduciary responsibility is to explore chapter 11 (chapter 7 is liquidation) which is a financial reorganization...something about which say Trump could give you a real education.

Chapter 11 requires...requires what is called 'debtor-in-possession financing' where the great and glorious 'free market' said no, we are not taking that on. So all that remained was chapt. 7. The right in this country screams jobs but didn't give a shit about the jobs lost in chapt. 7. Why am I not surprised ?

...but not the big banks...just too big to fail ? We have thrown $Trillions...yes that's right $trillions of your tax money at banking, agric., oil, technology among others in various forms over the last 40-50 years, why only now is this a problem and with certain unmentioned big corps. ?

I don't know that the people would have it any worse if we had let a couple or even 3-4 big banks on wall street...go bankrupt. Now go look at the numbers and come back tell us which costs society more.



We have bankruptcy laws in this country for a reason. Those banks or any other business need to use them rather than skirting around the issue and taking Taxpayer dollars to "ensure their success."
NO business is "too big to fail", they're just trying to use scare tactics.
If a bank or five banks go out of business there'll be new ones to replace them. Capitalism hates a "void."
But in no cases should "the govt." be "bailing out" businesses thus gauranteeing their success!
You *should* be able to walk into a supermarket and see a former bank president bagging groceries for $10 an hour!




slvemike4u -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 12:03:39 PM)

Of course when gov't bails out industry it is not just the corp.that gets saved....it is also those American workers and their families that get saved.While I too have issues with that whole"too big to fail" idea....I do like the idea of having the option of buying an American made automobile.




Moonhead -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 12:33:11 PM)

Just out of interest then, what do you drive?
Is it just the option of buying a car you wouldn't be seen dead in that appeals?




DomYngBlk -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 12:37:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Back when Democrats were still decent Americans.

Who said, "Ask not what your country can do for you"

Can you imagine any dem saying that today?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I think a lot of Liberals would go insane with rage if Americans elected someone with business experience



We elected Truman.

Epic Failure again, Tom.



Democrats say things like that all the time. However, you have your ears and mind closed and can't hear it




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 2:40:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

[;)][:)]

Lincoln is a Republican I would have voted for. If I could have voted back then, anyway.


Kennedy was the last Democrat I could have voted for, especially since he would have been an indy or a Republican today.




slvemike4u -> RE: Wanna play GOP 2012? (3/16/2011 2:57:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Just out of interest then, what do you drive?
Is it just the option of buying a car you wouldn't be seen dead in that appeals?
A Mercury Mountaineer.....




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