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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:03:40 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Sorta hard to get pissy at the US when they refused to vote. They took no sides.

I dont follow. Not unless you think my earlier comments were pissy. If so, I was pointing out the hypocracy when oil is concerned, as shown by the Iraq invasion.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:05:45 PM

Sanity

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Maybe in another hundred or two hundred years the people of Libya will have another shot at freedom, but at last we are being perfectly PC and wringing our hands the prescribed amount of time needed to please all the other tyrants on the planet eh

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And if Obama had charged in and "took over" it would have been nothing different than what Bush did.

quote:

The United States, France and Britain pushed for speedy approval because Muammar al-Qaddafi's forces are advancing toward opposition-held Benghazi. The Libyan leader vowed Thursday night to oust the rebels from their eastern stronghold.

This is now UN sanctioned.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:11:28 PM

Sanity

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The end to the Iraq cease fire is the proper term. Even Bill Clinton said Saddam Hussein had to go, quite directly and forcefully.

Bush derangement syndrome can certainly be hard on a leftists memory I suppose

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I dont follow. Not unless you think my earlier comments were pissy. If so, I was pointing out the hypocracy when oil is concerned, as shown by the Iraq invasion.

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Post #: 83

RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:12:08 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Maybe in another hundred or two hundred years the people of Libya will have another shot at freedom, but at last we are being perfectly PC and wringing our hands the prescribed amount of time needed to please all the other tyrants on the planet eh

Why the change of stance from you, compared to the Iraq invasion. is it because Obama is President ? As i recall you were stating the case for liberating the Iraqi people. Frankly I dont see much difference between what is happening in Libya and what was happening in Iraq myself.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:14:38 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The end to the Iraq cease fire is the proper term. Even Bill Clinton said Saddam Hussein had to go, quite directly and forcefully.

Bush derangement syndrome can certainly be hard on a leftists memory I suppose

I dont see the fact that you calling something "the proper term " makes it so.

As for me being leftist, again you have no clue. Ask Moonhead to explain Thatcherism and my views on it to you.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:16:47 PM

jlf1961

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Okay, it is UN approved, which means the US will carry the brunt of the operation.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:29:04 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Maybe in another hundred or two hundred years the people of Libya will have another shot at freedom, but at last we are being perfectly PC and wringing our hands the prescribed amount of time needed to please all the other tyrants on the planet eh

Why the change of stance from you, compared to the Iraq invasion. is it because Obama is President ? As i recall you were stating the case for liberating the Iraqi people. Frankly I dont see much difference between what is happening in Libya and what was happening in Iraq myself.

Then you were sleeping during the 90s

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:33:53 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Then you were sleeping during the 90s

Another who seems to have changed his mind. As for me sleeping, havent you been watching the news this week ?

You wouldnt be "on the ball" if someone jammed it up your backside.

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Post #: 88

RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:38:40 PM

Sanity

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Its too late to do any good, by most accounts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Okay, it is UN approved, which means the US will carry the brunt of the operation.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:40:37 PM

StrangerThan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

It wasn't a matter of being asked. It was a matter of a committee decision. Now that he's on the verge of stamping out the rebel cause and instituting God knows what types of retribution, our committee finally makes a decision

Our committee? Or the UN's?

Btw, Russia and China abstained from voting

Russia and China abstaining from voting is what I meant. The wait was to see whether or not they'd say no or just opt out. They opted. The committee was both, ours and the UN's. We had no hard language until we had a good idea that Russia and China were going to sit out. It's like we wandered along in no-man's land trying to figure out whether or not we should take a stand, and in the interim made completely ineffective statements here and there. Anyone who wants to argue the effectiveness of such can go to North Africa and argue with either side.

There is a time and a place to take a stand and do the right thing. The right thing is not invading a land and trying to hand democracy or freedom over to people who A) have no idea what to do with it, and B) never asked you to come in the first place. The right thing is helping people out of oppression. Invading was never on the plate. Not one side anywhere wanted an occupying force.

Like I said, there's really no right or wrong. What there was, and was a lot of, was dragging along not sure which way we were going to go until two other countries made up their minds as to whether or not they were going to stop by the clubhouse or not.

< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 3/17/2011 5:46:50 PM >

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Post #: 90

RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 5:48:29 PM

Sanity

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quote:

OH, HILL NO

Obama's indecision on Libya has pushed Clinton over the edge

Fed up with a president “who can’t make his mind up” as Libyan rebels are on the brink of defeat, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is looking to the exits.

At the tail end of her mission to bolster the Libyan opposition, which has suffered days of losses to Col. Moammar Gadhafi’s forces, Clinton announced that she’s done with Obama after

2012 — even if he wins again.

...

When French president Nicolas Sarkozy urged her to press the White House to
take more aggressive action in Libya, Clinton repeatedly replied only, “There are difficulties,” according to Foreign Policy magazine.

“Frankly we are just completely puzzled,” one of the diplomats told Foreign
Policy magazine. “We are wondering if this is a priority for the United States.”

Or as the insider described Obama’s foreign policy shop: “It’s amateur night.”

...

Full article here

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 6:02:31 PM

StrangerThan

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You know, I can see both sides of this debate Sanity. I can see people who want it to be a club house thing. I can understand my own urge to see us do something needs tempered. The two things I really don't see is the comparison to Iraq and Afghanistan, and the waffling along like having an opinion is a bad thing unless everyone else agrees.

We didn't start this fight. The people of the country did. The only help they wanted was to level the playing field a bit, sort of a "grant me equal mass" for the readers of Piers Anthony. I'm not saying we should have rushed in to provide it. I'm saying we should have had a clear message on it, one we backed with actions. I'm sure there was plenty of back room bargaining. Outwardly it was just... waffling along. In other words, we didn't lead when we should have. France expressed more leadership on the matter than we did, in recognizing the transitional government and pressing for the no-fly zone.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 6:31:50 PM

tweakabelle

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Wonderful news!!!! The UN Security Council has finally gotten its act together and is going to intervene in Libya.

NATO, the US, the Europeans and the Arab League must act immediately now to enforce the no fly zone and other measures. If they do, it could prove decisive in the battle for the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

Beyond that, let's hope it proves decisive in the peoples revolution to remove the thug Ghadaffi from the scene permanently.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 6:57:44 PM

Brain

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Canada should have taken action 2 weeks ago to take Qaddafi out . If you think of Qaddafi like a snake all you have to do is cut his head off or in other words wherever he is located in Tripoli bomb him or the command and control center. There's no reason to send in ground troops like Iraq here.

I think the rebels can take care of themselves down there if they get adequate air support. With adequate air support I think they can take Moammar Qaddafi out in less than a week - in a few days he will be hiding in a hole somewhere like Saddam Hussein.

Unfortunately, Steven Harper is focused on winning an election in Canada now and doesn't want to risk getting involved in the Libyan situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Obama (great leader of the free world that he is) tried to get France to take care of Gaddafi but, hard as it may be to believe, France just wasnt up to the job.

Maybe during the next crisis if he can get off of the golf course in time he should ask Canada to handle the problem

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I would like to see France wipe that fuckwad out. We took over Viet Nam and showed them how to do it (LOL) after they fucked around for about 15 years, so they can take it from us this round.

If we hadn't fucked ourselves by porsecuting our vital interests in Iraq....I would want to be in there with both fuckin feet.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 6:59:26 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Wonderful news!!!! The UN Security Council has finally gotten its act together and is going to intervene in Libya.

NATO, the US, the Europeans and the Arab League must act immediately now to enforce the no fly zone and other measures. If they do, it could prove decisive in the battle for the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

Beyond that, let's hope it proves decisive in the peoples revolution to remove the thug Ghadaffi from the scene permanently.

Question is, Is it too late without ground troops?
I think this topic deserves a separate thread.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 7:16:15 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Question is, Is it too late without ground troops?
I think this topic deserves a separate thread.

I suppose the answer to your question will become clear in the next few days .....

On ABC TV here (Australia) last night, one of the commanders of the rebels defending Benghazi insisted that his major problem was Ghadaffi's air power. He was totally confident that his forces would handle events on the ground successfully if the threat from the air could be eliminated.

All we can do is hope his confidence is justified I suppose ......

The full text of the Security Council resolution can be found here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/17/un-security-council-resolution

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 7:24:14 PM

Brain

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It would have been nice if NATO acted more quickly but with the recent UN resolution I'm very confident Muammar Gaddafi will be defeated. As it stands now if he deploys any military resources they will be rigorously attacked until they die or until they turn against Qaddafi and take him out themselves. Obama said it's time for Qaddafi to go and he will one way or another.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Obama, once again all words and no action, except that duck hook once a round. We are clearly perceived by our friends as an unreliable ally and by our enemies as a paper tiger. Nice hand, sir.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 7:32:31 PM

Brain

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After everything we did in Afghanistan? That picture is bullshit!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Maybe during the next crisis if he can get off of the golf course in time he should ask Canada to handle the problem
Ready Aye Ready!

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 7:37:47 PM

Brain

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Egypt's not getting involved now unless it's in a very small way. They don't need Egypt anyway, NATO is going to crush Muammar Qaddafi he uses his military in ANY
way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiDS

Why not just give them the no fly zone and leave it at that. Let them fight their own battle and just level the playing field.

I personally wish Egypt would help their brother's in arms, being as they share a boarder and have just recently had their own revolution. Kudos to all the Middle Eastern and North African countries throwing off their dictators and corrupt governments.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 7:42:21 PM

Brain

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Your right wing Republican bias is ridiculous and you will fail in your attempts to prevent Obama's reelection.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Oh, Obama supports the people of Libya alright, just silently.

With his back turned.

And from as far away as possible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
No, Im not suggesting that. That was Tweakabird's incorrect statement. But she said that it doesnt work, and she's simply wrong about that, unless she has some bizarre definition of "working".

What has never worked is saying "Blah blah blah, Qadaffi's got to go", and then leave for the golf course and not do a fucking thing about it, including snubbing your supposed allies.