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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 10:14:46 AM

flcouple2009

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Now Lucy, you know if Obama were to use the military then Sanity would be right here taking the other side arguing that we shouldn't be involved.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 10:17:21 AM

stellauk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

We have a helluva a long way down to go and still laugh at the UK.

That's generally because we write better comedy than you. I was referring to politics.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 10:26:12 AM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Now Lucy, you know if Obama were to use the military then Sanity would be right here taking the other side arguing that we shouldn't be involved.

That goes without saying

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 10:32:15 AM

slvemike4u

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Lets not denigrate sanity for his predictability...it is his one good trait,and he is so amusing in his aplication of it.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 10:33:27 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiDS

Why not just give them the no fly zone and leave it at that. Let them fight their own battle and just level the playing field.

I personally wish Egypt would help their brother's in arms, being as they share a boarder and have just recently had their own revolution. Kudos to all the Middle Eastern and North African countries throwing off their dictators and corrupt governments.

We would face grave issues if a newly born (and now wholly military in governance at the moment) regime were to cross-borders and throw in with Libyan insurgents, rebels, terrorists, whatever.....

Thats damn near as bad a mistake as we are making with Turkey, Iraq, Iran and the Kurds.

So, no fly reduces them to being blown up house by house with tanks and ack acks or howitzer.

Italy, France and the UK the biggest known exporters of military goods to Libya. We hope they are not sending parts.

So, unless we want planes shot out of the air, we have to destroy their air defenses.

It aint gonna cut it to gaffer tape a dug up and pancake make-uped reagan to the bow of a destroyer and cut movie clips together to mime thru a megaphone, 'Hey, Khaddafi, bring your one arm ass over here and we'll whip it fore ya gin!!!!'

The US military has no 'troop' type long term war capabilities.

You do not want us to actually go in there just to dip in and level the playing field either, and then scoot out.

We make fuckin war.   The death tolls everyone is worried about now will rise to the 9th ring of Dante's hell, you can forget all that shit tv is showing you about bombs down a chimney, we would wreck houses, hospitals, shrines, mosques, level anything in the area we drop in on.

France and the UK were instrumental in divi - ing up the region lines post WWII, (Italy didn't make it to the spoils of war banquet....)  we backed Khaddaffi when he was a lowly commo sergeant, and look where that got us.

Nah, this would demonstrate all the earmarks of a CIA operation, should we go in there and show them how it is all done in the good ol USA, everyone in the country except the intended target, Old Mo, would be killed.

Look to Iraq, where is Osama Bin Laden?   Rumsfeld and OJ are still out there searching for the real killer.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/16/2011 10:34:58 AM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 11:22:35 AM

Anaxagoras

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At this stage it seems very clear Gadfly has won the contest. It struck me at the onset of demonstrations in Libya that the protests there would cause a much nastier response than in Egypt etc. Now that it is probably over it is too late to try to intervene even if it was a good idea. I think Gadfly should at this stage be persuaded to offer opponents an amnesty when surrendering (perhaps voluntary exile) in exchange for some privileges from the West as the resultant campaign of terror/blood bath when he wins is an unpleasant thing to contemplate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
We have a helluva a long way down to go and still laugh at the UK.

That's generally because we write better comedy than you. I was referring to politics.

I thought the British had largely contracted “comedy” out to the Irish – perhaps its one of the consequences of Thatcherite privatisation. Before the British used to laugh at us, now we help them laugh with us. Now that’s real progress folks!

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 11:30:17 AM

Lucylastic

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The irish have always been funny

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 11:41:41 AM

Anaxagoras

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Its all in the drink: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t20zA1zIsH8

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 11:47:07 AM

Lucylastic

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From my favourite irishman
Drinking problem?
I dont have a drinking problem, I drink, I get drunk, I fall over,
no problem.
Gawd love him

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 12:58:23 AM

tweakabelle

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It's sad that Libya seems to have slipped off the radar in the past few days. Possibly this is due to the appalling events in Japan, the stark way in which momentum has shifted in the battle for Libyan freedom and the inevitable pessimism that accompanies the rebel's setbacks.

Yet the Arab world is still in a state of ferment. Bahrain seems to have suffered an invasion by Saudi UAE and other Gulf troops. Security forces have attacked peaceful protesters in Manama, opposition figures are disappearing, arrests are widespread, injuries and deaths have been reported.

Some Western media have shifted their reporting of the situation in the region. Previously the struggle in Bahrain had been presented as a freedom struggle with sectarian undertones lurking in the background. Suddenly, previously unreported sinister Iranian influence was detected behind the dissent and the Murdoch media here found ways to treat Ghaddafi's suppression of Libyan dissent as horrifying, while the despotic Bahraini ruler's suppression of his people merely raised "legitimate questions".

In the Yemen, the situation for the ageing tyrant seems to get closer and closer to the brink. In Occupied Palestine, the people are on the streets demanding and end to the Hamas-PLO split and an end to the occupation. There have even been reports of small scale demonstrations in Syria.

For people interested in keeping up with these fast moving events, I have found the Middle East sections of the liberal UK papers, The Guardian and The Independent essential well informed resources. You can find them at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middleeast/roundup and;
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/

Robert Fisk's and Patrick Cockburn's blogs at The Independent provide incisive commentary.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/17/2011 1:00:18 AM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 6:08:48 AM

Sanity

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If the ugly twins had a spark of intelligence between them they might actually comment on the thread topic, or even argue for or against something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Now Lucy, you know if Obama were to use the military then Sanity would be right here taking the other side arguing that we shouldn't be involved.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 6:57:49 AM

Anaxagoras

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At this stage I feel I should comment on the actions of one individual on this forum. If others think this thread hijacking then I apologise but it relates in part to the content of this thread by another member, and also since it seems to be OK for other members to do the same with folks like Sanity and Truckinslave, and the Alex Jones conspiracist loonies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Some Western media have shifted their reporting of the situation in the region. Previously the struggle in Bahrain had been presented as a freedom struggle with sectarian undertones lurking in the background. Suddenly, previously unreported sinister Iranian influence was detected behind the dissent and the Murdoch media here found ways to treat Ghaddafi's suppression of Libyan dissent as horrifying, while the despotic Bahraini ruler's suppression of his people merely raised "legitimate questions".

In the Yemen, the situation for the ageing tyrant seems to get closer and closer to the brink. In Occupied Palestine, the people are on the streets demanding and end to the Hamas-PLO split and an end to the occupation. There have even been reports of small scale demonstrations in Syria.

For people interested in keeping up with these fast moving events, I have found the Middle East sections of the liberal UK papers, The Guardian and The Independent essential well informed resources. You can find them at:

Robert Fisk's and Patrick Cockburn's blogs at The Independent provide incisive commentary.

It is funny how this individual continually attacked me over a well justified belief that some media institutions are biased (e.g. little reporting in the West on the butchery of a family including a six month old last week in contrast to the pretty minor attacks from settlers recently), whilst pouring of cold water on conservative media and very frequently recommending articles or dubious sites often for trumped up reasons. She even admitted as much in the thread deleted yesterday. Significant is the repeated recommendations of Robert Fisk who is famed for being one of the most belligerent anti-Israeli's around and in fact a bona fide liar: http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=26988

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
One thing we all can do is educate ourselves about the Middle East and the Arab world. Judging by some of the posts I see, there is a definite need for it.

IMHO there's no better place to start than Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilisation" (Harper Collins, London 2005). Fisk is a legendary award-winning Middle East correspondent for leading UK paper "The Independent", Beirut resident for 35 odd years, fluent Arabic speaker and probably best known as the only Western journalist to interview Osama bin Lost.

His book covers over a century of Western involvement (interference?) in the Arab world and Iran. Factual, comprehensive, easy to read and passionate - highly recommended!

Below is one of numerous trumped up reasons to post an article attacking Israel or recommending a hostile website on the many Islam threads - yes I often defend the place but please note I do so when others attack it. This article absurdly criticises the British in helping creating Israel when it is a fact that they did all they could to prevent it (outside of the Balfour Declaration) to curry favour with the emerging oil rich Arab States. For example, within months of getting the Palestine Mandate Churchill they in fact ceded 78% of the territory to a deposed foreign ruler who was friendly with the Brits, and prevented Jews travelling to Israel during the Holocaust. The implicit criticism here is that Israel should not exist at all but note the failure to own the fact that she believes the opinions within for otherwise why would she post it up. Neither is the Guardian is respected as an impartial source anymore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Earlier in the thread, there was some discussion of the respective roles of Arab stagnation and Western interference in the ME conflicts.

The link refers to a review in the respected liberal UK paper, the Guardian. It contains some facts relating to the role of the West, esp the British in the events up to and including the foundation of Israel. It's one example of how local interests (of both Arabs and Jews) played second fiddle to the needs of British Imperialism. Please remember that the review is about a work of fiction based on historical fact. But it does make for uncomfortable reading for those who believe that a benevolent West is engaged in peace-making for altruistic reasons.

The notion of thinking about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a post-colonial problem rarely gets airing on these threads. Yet this perspective is fundamental to understanding aspects of the conflict. Personally I neither endorse or reject the argument in the review.

I do suggest it's good reading for those seeking a deeper understanding of the conflict, and of how destructive the relatively short period of imperial influence in the region was. Enjoy!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/04/the-promise-peter-kosminsky

Tweakabelle clearly wants to take issue with Israel - that is a predominant feature of her posts. That's fine but she should have the decency to start anti-Israeli threads like Hertz and others have done in the past where contentions can be scrutenised properly. Point made and apologies for the interruption to those I appear to have annoyed in the past.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 3/17/2011 7:17:08 AM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 7:46:36 AM

StrangerThan

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US talks of tough action:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110317/ts_nm/us_libya

Now here's my beef. If you're going to do it, then fucking do it. If not, then just come clean and say, ya know, while we feeeeeel your pain, we just ain't gonna play. What's come from Washington the last few weeks has been little more than vague rumbling, hinting, calling for, suggesting, back-pedaling, hiding, even after the Arab league folks asked for a no-fly zone. It's like watching a college committee try to make a decision.

Talk another few days, and it'll all be over. At least then we can turn loose the real talking head fuck-faces, meaning the lawyers who can run over to Europe and start working up war crimes bs.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 8:45:38 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You can win as much peace as you want if you are prepared to take over the country when youre done. Overwhelming force wasnt even close to being used in anything you named.

If we take over the country, we will poison hearts and minds of the populace (further) against us.

So what DO you suggest?

The most important thing is consistency...actions have to match the rhetoric. Since the message from the WH is "Q has to go" then work toward that. Publicly at least our allies are calling for a NFZ, so work with them to get it done, with an appropriate balance of our assets and theirs. I agree with the dove's economics...we can't afford to police the world while other economies get a free ride. Its a global economy, and just like a national free-rider problem there is a global free rider problem. That doesn't mean isolationsism, but resource allocation.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 8:48:00 AM

mnottertail

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So the rhetoric will save the day, really make us a difference?

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 10:21:17 AM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

US talks of tough action:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110317/ts_nm/us_libya

Now here's my beef. If you're going to do it, then fucking do it. If not, then just come clean and say, ya know, while we feeeeeel your pain, we just ain't gonna play. What's come from Washington the last few weeks has been little more than vague rumbling, hinting, calling for, suggesting, back-pedaling, hiding, even after the Arab league folks asked for a no-fly zone. It's like watching a college committee try to make a decision.

Talk another few days, and it'll all be over. At least then we can turn loose the real talking head fuck-faces, meaning the lawyers who can run over to Europe and start working up war crimes bs.

I think what they are doing is the right action but its going too D A M N slow!! We can not and should not act unilaterally. Let the Arab League sign on and own part of it too. That way they can't call us imperialist cowboys.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 10:42:51 AM

domiguy

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Always remeber the things that Wilbur has said in the past. His words paint him out to be pretty damn stupid.

he doesn't care about truth. Wilbur is a nut job whose word means absolutely nothing.

Remember these gems?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3298601/mpage_1/key_bet%252Cwilbur/tm.htm#3298706

E: Racial Bias At The Justice Department - 7/6/2010 2:12:34 PM

willbeurdaddy
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ORIGINAL: DomKen

"Look into Adams' background and how he was hired. His testimony is worth precisely nothing."

Wilbur said this...."What odds will you give me on Holder resigning/being forced out over this?"

Holder has gone nowhere.

Here is another turd that I caught falling from wilbur's mouth.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3414417/mpage_1/key_bet%252Cwilbur/tm.htm#3416024

Wibur said this when talking about Christine O'Donnell..."Any bets that she'll poll within 5 points of Coons by 10/5?"

She never came close. She lost the November 2010 U.S. Senate election in Delaware, to Democrat Chris Coons by a margin of 57% to 40%

Wilbur owes me thousands of dollars and has never paid up. He is not a very smart man.

Pay up, wilbur!!!

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 4:09:07 PM

Politesub53

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Breaking news from the UN.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12781009

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 4:13:23 PM

Sanity

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Yeah, what is it, day 31?

U.S. Readying to Help Impose No-Fly Zone in Libya, Officials Say

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/17/seeks-resolution-authorizing-wide-range-strikes-libya/#ixzz1GtsKGWGO

Obama was so fast making this decision my head is literally spinning.

Blinding fast.

/sarcasm

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/17/2011 4:18:43 PM

Lucylastic

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At least he is waiting for a UN Resolution before jumping into iraq
I mean libya

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