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RE: sub initiative... - 5/7/2006 4:25:02 AM

Sab

Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

While participating in another thread....something came to mind that i've wondered about...regarding a Dominants reaction to a sub taking any sort of initiative....

Is it appreciated/appropriate for a sub to take any initiative in pleasing his/her Dominant?....by that i mean...taking it upon themselves to perform a task....or to enhance things (could be as simple as adding bubbles to the bath ...or just trying to surprise them in some way...

I would greatly appreciate a Dominants point of view on this...or even a submissives experience with such.

We are human, as that is the case we like to be surprised with the small things that show us that our sub's care and love us as much as they say they do.

Sub's are not robots and should be respected as such! You cannot want for anything better than a sub that truly loves and caares for you.

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RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 6:46:42 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
Is the motive behind the initiative truly one of being proactive in taking care of the dominant or is it trying to control things.

Laying out a crop and a ball gag could be "I know beating my ass and seeing me slobber uncontrollably all over my gag helps you relax after a long day at work" it could also be "I want my ass beaten but I can pretend I am doing it for you after a long day at work"

No to me there's a lot more to it than motive.

I don't care what your intentions and motivations are if you decide to go out and get me a diet soda- I'm not going to drink it and you will be told that I do not drink diet sodas (the chemicals make me sick). If you continue to bring them to me, you will be disciplined. You could have a heart of gold- but intentions only go so far in service.

If I want something done a particular way and train you to it and say "This is how I want it, do it this way until I say otherwise" then I want you to do it. I try and be VERY particular in my words when giving orders to avoid confusion later (lots of novice doms find that's one of the first skills they need). If they come up with some brilliant idea, it's a much safer way to go to let me know about it first and approve it.

If I tell them how I want something and say "I don't really care how you do it, as long as it gets done" then obviously they are free to use their ideas without risk.

Some things I'm extremely particular on and some thigns I could care less. It's my job to communicate to them what leeway they have in what ways, it's their job to listen and follow those guidelines. As time goes on, we communicate more and shift with preferences and ideas.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Post #: 22

RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 8:31:31 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
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LA,

I am not sure why you think you disagree with my post about intentions. You wouldn't punish a sub who realizes you might be thirsty and not knowing what you drink, brings you a diet coke. Of course it would be better if they asked you what you desired first but their motive in getting you one is a good one and selfless. If they continue bringing you diet sodas, then either their motive isn't good or they aren't focused enough on you and your needs.

In addition, we were speaking of being proactive which by definition is something that is done outside of the trained/expected responses which your post speaks of and which mine didn't address.

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Post #: 23

RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 8:37:16 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
You wouldn't punish a sub who realizes you might be thirsty and not knowing what you drink, brings you a diet coke.

quote:

Of course it would be better if they asked you what you desired first but their motive in getting you one is a good one and selfless. If they continue bringing you diet sodas, then either their motive isn't good or they aren't focused enough on you and your needs.

I've known enough subs who honestly DO have all the right intentions in the world and simply not the right focus or discipline to use them effectively.

quote:

In addition, we were speaking of being proactive which by definition is something that is done outside of the trained/expected responses which your post speaks of and which mine didn't address.

To me proactiveness is something that should be trained and learned just like anything else. It's all a risk of course, but there's reasonable risks and unreasonable risks.

My point was simply that "good intentions" aren't enough to make up for bad or inappropriate service.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Post #: 24

RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 9:29:34 AM

heartfeltsub

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To add a slightly different note, not so much on sub initiative, but rather on the comment dealing with bad or inappropriate service, i have seen some submissives repeatedly ask there Doms the same question about what He wants not in an effort to do good service, but simply to get His attention off of someone else He is talking with and on to them.

Again i realize that i am off topic for this thread, but it seemed to fit in with a previous comment from LA,

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
You wouldn't punish a sub who realizes you might be thirsty and not knowing what you drink, brings you a diet coke.

I would if I'd told them to leave me alone to take a nap. I know a lot of subs/slaves who do things in the name of "helping" them after the dom has specifically said "leave me alone." I would if I'd let them know ahead of time that getting me a drink is not something they should presume to do.

i have seen similar type behavior from submissives from time to time, and have often wondered in those instances, if it was more of an attention getting device than anything else.

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RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 9:35:02 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
i have seen similar type behavior from submissives from time to time, and have often wondered in those instances, if it was more of an attention getting device than anything else.

USUALLY it's more the slave trying to DO something, trying to make themselves feel useful, to fulfill their "need to please."

It's a very honest and desiring intention, but not to be acted upon in that way. Sometimes the best way to serve is DO NOTHING. For slaves who constantly feel like they need to be DOING something, it can be a hard place to be.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Post #: 26

RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 4:02:55 PM

CrappyDom

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LA,

If the motive of the sub is to fullfil their need to serve and they let that override your stated need for a nap, then it is still the motive at fault which is what I had posted. I think we both agree but are arguing this from different perspectives.

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Post #: 27

RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 5:55:00 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear spankmepink11, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I believe initiatives by slaves/submissives is a situation/circumstance based situation.

There are several areas where Dominants want "exactly" what they wish without any added fluff or additions by the slave. There are other areas where a dominant would welcome a slave's initiative; to which it is appreciated so very much.

Serving and being served, is a very personal choice. Really depends on the Master/Mistress.

For a brief few examples; I would not appreciate a slave refilling my beverage glass without my command. Although a slave may take the thought that they were doing a favor, it is not what I wish. I limit my beverage intake for a reason. To add to the glass, is a waste of beverage. Yet, as another example of slaves taking the initiative, would be of a dear slave, that took it upon themselves without command or delay, shoveled snow off the walk, driveway, sidewalk and all the cars belonging to the guests. I did not command this, it was not expected but--the slave did this all on their own. I may add the slave was well rewarded with much affection of many grateful guests.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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Post #: 28

RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 6:06:56 PM

bandit25

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I guess it depends upon your dom. If he's controlling and a micromanager, then I don't think I'd take much initiative. Otherwise, I can't imagine that he wouldn't be please to see that you've taken the incentive and made that extra effort.

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Post #: 29

RE: sub initiative... - 5/8/2006 6:32:36 PM

spankmepink11

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Joined: 9/28/2005
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Thank You all so much.....i appreciate the input. And I agree with the observations regarding motivation. The bubble bath incident was the only instance where this was an issue but i was comepletely chagrined at the time, that something that i thought would make things so pleasant backfired. And knowing that it displeased him was worse than any harsh word spoken...or possible punishment.
It generally only takes one time...to learn from a mistake i make...and to pattern my behavour in such a way as to not repeat it. In the future....unless it's something simple...as in asking if My MAster would like a refill of His drink...etc...(and asking only once!...lol) I've learned that before i take it upon myself to "surprise" any future Master...i will be sure that said "surprise" is something that i know he would indeed find pleasing.

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Post #: 30