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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
WTF? 

1. "Attaching", as you put it, is a chemical reaction,  Not only is it not a given that it will react from its original state, but it will become neither less or more radioactive as it does so. 

is there a more proper term?

I can float an iron needle on water right....
would stick to dust be better? carried by dust? 

Nope.  A needle can float on water due to the surface tension.  break the surface of the water anbd the needle will sink like a rock.  There is no analog for metals floating on air. 

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2. If it's a heavy metal, it ain't gonna float on dust.  The nanoparticles you describe have just as much mass as the huge chunks, just less volume.  If you drop a 40 lb chunk of lead and a 3 oz chunk of lead from a height, they'll both fall at the same rate.  Gravitational pull is independent of size.  Trade winds will not carry it anywhere.

point is regardless of the weight and yes it is heavy it can be carried on dust if the particles are small enough, in the range of nano.

put it this way...if the buoyancy of a chunk of dust is greater than the gravity acting against the particle and the dust it will float on the air.  Thats not to say every particle of dust will have with it a particle of plutonium etc or be capable of floating it, but how many ways woud we like to slice this. 

Buoyancy in water (entirely different from the surface tension example you just gave) is due to something floating because it's lighter than water.  Similarly, something lighter than air will soar up, but metal isotopes will not be lighter than air. 

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I'm not saying it won't find its way over here, but if the path is long enough, it'll be dispersed by the time it gets here. Remember, if the fuel is uranium, the fuel is nothing more than naturally occurring uranium that was concentrated in a centrifuge.  If it's dispersed, well, that's how it was in nature in the first place.

well sorta kinda.... its not like they strip the top of a field to get it you know.  most is mined.

3. It will NOT be peed out.  It won't get that far into the body.  As I said above, it is NOT water soluble.  Anythiing that is peed is absorbed into the body (usually through digestion), collected from the cells, filtered through the kidneys, and passed out.  That is impossible for things that are not water soluble.  If any heavy metal isotopes are ingested, they will NOT be absorbed into the stomach lining in the first place and will be excreted out (to put it politely).  In other words, no damage.

yup good cal I should have said shit out. 

if you are claiming no damage that is not correct, there certainly is damage from any ionizing radiation in your body.  the longer it stays in the body the more like you will get cancer the more dna get mutated.   If it get caught on something on its way through then it can and does stay there for years nuking the person. 

Correct.  So something that stay in the body for three or four hours and then gets shit out will irradiate the body a little.  if it's something with a short half life, it might irradiate significantly.  But all the isotopes that are used in reactors, I believe, are isotopes with long half lives which will therefore irradiate very little while in the body for a few hours.

I'm not a doctor, but I haven't heard of food that stays in the body because it got caught in the GI tract. 

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At Rocky Flats, we analyzed the four separate pathways that plutonium could enter the body - ingestion (as above, not a concern), inhalation, absorption (skin contact), and injection (entering through an open wound).  Absorption was obviously not an issue since Pu is not water soluble.  Injection was done by reducing sharp edges in the workplace.  Inhalation was a serious concern and measures were taken to reduce it.

As I said above, this depends on what the isotopes are.  I sure as hell hope they're not water soluble.

the problem is the size.  submicron particles of any substance is well known to enter into the mitochondria simply due to its incredibly small size and has nothing to do with absorbtion....  if you are reading absorption as the same thing as "dissolving" or breaking down somehow.  That is not necessary.  I dont plan on looking up the precise label put in it though

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
As I said above, this depends on what the isotopes are.  I sure as hell hope they're not water soluble.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
As I said above, this depends on what the isotopes are.  I sure as hell hope they're not water soluble.

We're looking at 4 isotopes - iodine-131, cesium-137, strontium-90, and plutonium-239. Of these, the iodine and cesium are water soluble. Iodine-131 has a half life of 8 days, which means it's potentially lethal for around 5 months, and cesium has a half life of around 30 years, which means it's a hazard for up to 600 years (general rule of thumb (as I'm sure you know, Stephen) is that a radioactive substance is dangerous for a period of about 10 to 20 times its half life).

The heavier elements, strontium and plutonium, are not water soluble, and shouldn't pose much of a threat to anyone more than a couple of hundred miles from Japan. They'll settle out of the atmosphere relatively quickly, and won't be carried too far by ocean currents before sinking to the bottom. A very serious regional concern, obviously, but not a global catastrophe. Even the iodine and cesium probably won't affect us here in the US, because they'll disperse or "rain out" of the atmosphere before they get to our coast.

I don't plan on eating any seafood that comes from that area anytime soon, though - the iodine-131 is a potential problem for sea life in that part of the ocean. Remember, one of the most disturbing effects of Chernobyl was the Russian children who developed thyroid cancer from drinking the milk of cows who had eaten grass that had been rained on by clouds carrying iodine-131. That's a bad element to have in the food chain, and I'm not too sure about the cesium, either. Going to have to study that one a bit, I think. 6 months from now, there won't be any iodine-131 left, but whatever cesium is released into the environment will be dangerous for centuries. We'll just have to see how much gets released. That's some bad shit - causes just about every type of cancer imaginable. Basically, the rule of thumb is that if it's a part of the body that can grow a tumor, cesium will cause cancer in it.

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Thanks, Panda.  I was basically regurgitating old knowledge, and was hoping that nothing would be water soluble.

The iodine scares the crap out of me.  That stuff is readily uptaken.  It's also a beta/gamma emitter.  Crap.  The only good news is that it decays into xenon, so it will get flushed out of the ecosystem at that point.

The cesium 137 decays into barium 137m, which in turn decays quickly to a stable barium isotope.  Between the two decays, the cesium/barium also is a beta/gamma emitter.  This is worse than I thought.

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ORIGINAL: Marini

So you finally admit that the "radiation leaks" in Japan, might be a big deal?
I do wonder what the long term effects will be.
I did hear something about radiation being found in the water, and the water effecting the soil.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm not concerned with the food being radiated from Japan since I'm sure it would be tested before being put on my plate but I am concerned that prices for seafood will skyrocket beyond belief, especially tuna. If the prices go sky high I won't be able to afford it anymore anyway. Sigh...and I so adore sushi. I basically live off of it in the summer.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
As I said above, this depends on what the isotopes are.  I sure as hell hope they're not water soluble.

We're looking at 4 isotopes - iodine-131, cesium-137, strontium-90, and plutonium-239. Of these, the iodine and cesium are water soluble. Iodine-131 has a half life of 8 days, which means it's potentially lethal for around 5 months, and cesium has a half life of around 30 years, which means it's a hazard for up to 600 years (general rule of thumb (as I'm sure you know, Stephen) is that a radioactive substance is dangerous for a period of about 10 to 20 times its half life).

The heavier elements, strontium and plutonium, are not water soluble, and shouldn't pose much of a threat to anyone more than a couple of hundred miles from Japan. They'll settle out of the atmosphere relatively quickly, and won't be carried too far by ocean currents before sinking to the bottom. A very serious regional concern, obviously, but not a global catastrophe. Even the iodine and cesium probably won't affect us here in the US, because they'll disperse or "rain out" of the atmosphere before they get to our coast.

I don't plan on eating any seafood that comes from that area anytime soon, though - the iodine-131 is a potential problem for sea life in that part of the ocean. Remember, one of the most disturbing effects of Chernobyl was the Russian children who developed thyroid cancer from drinking the milk of cows who had eaten grass that had been rained on by clouds carrying iodine-131. That's a bad element to have in the food chain, and I'm not too sure about the cesium, either. Going to have to study that one a bit, I think. 6 months from now, there won't be any iodine-131 left, but whatever cesium is released into the environment will be dangerous for centuries. We'll just have to see how much gets released. That's some bad shit - causes just about every type of cancer imaginable. Basically, the rule of thumb is that if it's a part of the body that can grow a tumor, cesium will cause cancer in it.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I may have misspoken. I need to check on whether strontium-90 is water soluble. I know some strontium compounds are, but I was thinking strontium-90 was not one of them. However, given how easily it's taken up by the human body and assimilated into bone tissue, I wonder if I'm remembering that correctly. Does anyone else know? Stephen? MissAnnaRose? Where the heck did she go, anyway? Is she sick of us already? She really knew her shit.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Here is the thing....

why are we farting around with this shit when cold fusion is proven by los alamos and also the teslas 1/4 wave resonator?

I have seen reports of 1500% on cold fusion and 1000 on teslas transmitter.

Is it time to take these commercialists to task before they destroy this whole fucking planet?

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

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ORIGINAL: Marini

So you finally admit that the "radiation leaks" in Japan, might be a big deal?
I do wonder what the long term effects will be.
I did hear something about radiation being found in the water, and the water effecting the soil.

Yeah, I was hoping that the isotopes would be uranium and transuranics, as well as alpha emitters.  They're not.  Shit.

The long term effects are that Japan is screwed.  Their soil is going to be contaminated, and they eat a lot of fish, which will absorb the radioactive elements. 

TO make it worse, the US companies that have offshored to Asia, are reconsidering after this, and are talking of changing their offshoring to Mexico.  So Japan gets contamination, a power outage, crises, and an economic blow to their manufacturing.