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Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 1:46:35 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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Amid all the real and inescapable hardships that the country of Japan is facing at this time, we hear amoungst the media, the Chinese, the US, Europe, etc., that their primary concern is the "quality of information" as obtained thereby.


Please note, not "how are you guys doing?", not "how can we help you?", not "that is such a disaster! and look now how your efforts are so heroic!", none of that.


All we hear instead is how pissed off the dimwit media are, and that dimwit heads of governments are "disturbed" by how the information emanating from a thoroughly devastated country is not coming out in such timely fashion or precisely accurate as suits the aforementioned country's taste.


Tsk tsk tsk.


All I can say is F*ck You China, F*ck You US, and F*ck You Europe.


These people are having an issue right now, and if they cannot answer your stupid and demanding questions whilst in the throes of their current situation, then so be it, and find some advert space fodder or ridiculous foreign policy spin elsewhere, and goodnight and STFU.



Most respectfully.










Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 2:01:07 PM   
ChiDS


Posts: 100
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline 		Hmmm, I don't know about all this.  Japan could have evacuated WAY more ppl.  But instead of giving people a week to calmly collect their things and attempt to find safe ground.  They waged a disinformation campaign against their own people and had everyone stay wherever they were at and wait it out.  Cuz according to them everything was under control until, magically, it wasn't.  My point being the Japanese gov. deserves no applaud.  For their situation would not have been so severe, had they just giving their people the real information on what was going on.  Now everyone's fucked. 

I normally don't support the US, EU, or China.  But if your right and they are exceptionally worried about reliable information, after this whole operation of lies by Japan.  How can you blame them?  I certainly don't.  Japan's own gov. got them into this mess. Having pre-existing history of unsatisfactory reporting from that very source for years now,   not moving the pools above the reactors to seperate sites like just about everyone else in the world, and now falsely reporting on the situation and preventing their people from even having a chance at escape.  No, kudos are not in order here.  Not in my opinion.

< Message edited by ChiDS -- 3/19/2011 2:02:07 PM >

_____________________________

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 2:41:27 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiDS

Hmmm, I don't know about all this.  Japan could have evacuated WAY more ppl.  But instead of giving people a week to calmly collect their things and attempt to find safe ground.  They waged a disinformation campaign against their own people and had everyone stay wherever they were at and wait it out.  Cuz according to them everything was under control until, magically, it wasn't.  My point being the Japanese gov. deserves no applaud.  For their situation would not have been so severe, had they just giving their people the real information on what was going on.  Now everyone's fucked. 

I normally don't support the US, EU, or China.  But if your right and they are exceptionally worried about reliable information, after this whole operation of lies by Japan.  How can you blame them?  I certainly don't.  Japan's own gov. got them into this mess. Having pre-existing history of unsatisfactory reporting from that very source for years now,   not moving the pools above the reactors to seperate sites like just about everyone else in the world, and now falsely reporting on the situation and preventing their people from even having a chance at escape.  No, kudos are not in order here.  Not in my opinion.




It was a comparative exercise, and I had no delusion that the point would be missed in the process.


China's centuries long imposition upon others, the UK's centuries long imposition upon others, the US imposition at present, et al. Then there's France, Spain, Portugal, whatever.


How much "good information" are our beloved media and US and Brit disinformation schemes presented by the corporate media (so often presented as "analysis," what a joke) to us as to how Tibet is doing? how the citizens of Iraq are doing? etc.

The same media that "swallowed" in most inglorious fashion, that Iraq had some few weapons of mass destruction left, even after all the known cans that the US, UK, France, China, and everybody else sold to them had been removed, told us that Iraq was yet dangerous, weapons removal and 8-10 yr, "no fly zone" notwithstanding?

OK so Japan did bad, by all accounts of these same people.


Sorry if don't swallow as easily as yourself.







As you have noticed, the officials in charge recognized the danger of panic response potential in this situation. This could have caused significantly more deaths had it been handled otherwise.

All I was pointing out was that the Japanese government took this seriously from the first moment, as witnessed by the "at the scene" response, military helicopter fire hoses and all, and unlike forum posters or inherently belligerent "foreign policy" departments of UK or US or China, they had their own people to think about, and I congratulate them for that. Information can be dangerous, and those imperfect government officials in that department had to deal with the best interests of their own citizens first, such citizens having the modern day panic-enhancing capability of modern day media and internet.

Do you know as a fact that the evacuation of huge numbers of people could have been handled better than it was? having to conjure such momentous decisions under such dire circumstances? I'm sure that such panic-less scheme as you apparently have envisioned would be welcomed by a good many.

Peanut gallery 20/20, easy as pie.

Understanding of history, one's own country especially (strong hint here to brits and aussies), the sociological issues involved in all this, the pressure under which all events are playing out here, and my own understanding of what freaking dimwits the US, the UK, China, and most especially the worldwide dimwit media are is what provoked the first post in this thread.


I applaud your reading of things, but there is much further to go, for all of us, as long as you understand that some few others have trod upon some territory in the same neighborhood at some time previously.








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/19/2011 3:15:24 PM >

(in reply to ChiDS)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 3:11:35 PM   
ChiDS


Posts: 100
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline 		I was in no way saying that a complete evacuation could have been possible.  At some point, yes, you have to cut losses.  I'm saying if they took the trouble to evacuate 20KM in the first day.  They should have gone further.  Other than that I apologize, I perhaps jumped the gun and assumed too much by your words.  Because I cannot disagree with your last post in the slightest other than what I have stated about the evacuation.  In fact I found myself nodding my head at just about everything.

< Message edited by ChiDS -- 3/19/2011 3:14:39 PM >

_____________________________

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 3:37:26 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		*





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/19/2011 3:52:48 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 3:38:48 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn









quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiDS

Hmmm, I don't know about all this.  Japan could have evacuated WAY more ppl.  But instead of giving people a week to calmly collect their things and attempt to find safe ground.  They waged a disinformation campaign against their own people and had everyone stay wherever they were at and wait it out.  Cuz according to them everything was under control until, magically, it wasn't.  My point being the Japanese gov. deserves no applaud.  For their situation would not have been so severe, had they just giving their people the real information on what was going on.  Now everyone's fucked. 

I normally don't support the US, EU, or China.  But if your right and they are exceptionally worried about reliable information, after this whole operation of lies by Japan.  How can you blame them?  I certainly don't.  Japan's own gov. got them into this mess. Having pre-existing history of unsatisfactory reporting from that very source for years now,   not moving the pools above the reactors to seperate sites like just about everyone else in the world, and now falsely reporting on the situation and preventing their people from even having a chance at escape.  No, kudos are not in order here.  Not in my opinion.




It was a comparative exercise, and I had no delusion that the point would be missed in the process.


China's centuries long imposition upon others, the UK's centuries long imposition upon others, the US imposition at present, et al. Then there's France, Spain, Portugal, whatever.


How much "good information" are our beloved media and US and Brit disinformation schemes presented by the corporate media (so often presented as "analysis," what a joke) to us as to how Tibet is doing? how the citizens of Iraq are doing? etc.

The same media that "swallowed" in most inglorious fashion, that Iraq had some few weapons of mass destruction left, even after all the known cans that the US, UK, France, China, and everybody else sold to them had been removed, told us that Iraq was yet dangerous, weapons removal and 8-10 yr, "no fly zone" notwithstanding?

OK so Japan did bad, by all accounts of these same people.


Sorry if don't swallow as easily as yourself.







As you have noticed, the officials in charge recognized the danger of panic response potential in this situation. This could have caused significantly more deaths had it been handled otherwise.

All I was pointing out was that the Japanese government took this seriously from the first moment, as witnessed by the "at the scene" response, military helicopter fire hoses and all, and unlike forum posters or inherently belligerent "foreign policy" departments of UK or US or China, they had their own people to think about, and I congratulate them for that. Information can be dangerous, and those imperfect government officials in that department had to deal with the best interests of their own citizens first, such citizens having the modern day panic-enhancing capability of modern day media and internet.

Do you know as a fact that the evacuation of huge numbers of people could have been handled better than it was? having to conjure such momentous decisions under such dire circumstances? I'm sure that such panic-less scheme as you apparently have envisioned would be welcomed by a good many.

Peanut gallery 20/20, easy as pie.

Understanding of history, one's own country especially (strong hint here to brits and aussies), the sociological issues involved in all this, the pressure under which all events are playing out here, and my own understanding of what freaking dimwits the US, the UK, China, and most especially the worldwide dimwit media are is what provoked the original post.


I applaud your reading of things, but there is much further to go, for all of us, as long as you understand that some few others have trod upon some territory in the same neighborhood at some time previously.







/quote]

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 3:46:04 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

Sorry, the edit function might be dysfunctional at times. I tried to edit and then I was thence suck with an incoherent post and a doubling of that in the process.


Don't blame the moderators for whatever was vomited into their lap.





(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 3:49:22 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		  *







/quote]
[/quote]

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 3:50:26 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		*



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/19/2011 3:53:36 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 4:03:51 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		I have heard offers of assistance from both the US and Europe.

I am not sure why my information experience is so different from yours.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 4:11:11 PM   
ChiDS


Posts: 100
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

I have heard offers of assistance from both the US and Europe.

I am not sure why my information experience is so different from yours.


Also Russia was the first to respond with actual support.  Jus sayin.  They are the closest after all.  The US carrier Ronald Regan, which was en-route to Japan had to turn around due to concerning levels of radiation detected.  I'm not aware if they just "went around" or what exactly their next course of action was.  But support seems to be getting delayed all over the board.  Save Russia, as I have already stated.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/18/navy-reflects-week-service-quake-stricken-japan/
After more research here is the US contribution so far.


< Message edited by ChiDS -- 3/19/2011 4:16:17 PM >

_____________________________

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 5:00:50 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Whatever the merits of the information flow, I have nothing but admiration for the Japanese people and the way they have conducted themselves during the multiple crises they are enduring currently.

Not a single report of looting, of public disorder, of violence despite the most harrowing and trying of conditions. Can anyone imagine Westerners reacting with such stoic dignity, such humble heroism? Katrina anybody?

I was moved to tears by the generosity of spirit of a Japanese female politician who while being interviewed a couple of days into the crises, took the time to thank profusely, graciously and sincerely the peoples of countries offering aid and assistance. That she could even think of others while undergoing such trauma and stress herself speaks volumes to me.

In the West we have lots of self-righteous people (usually but not always religious) who tell us the meaning of virtues such as humility and gratitude. It was so nice to encounter the real thing for a change.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/19/2011 5:02:11 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to ChiDS)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 5:13:02 PM   
ChiDS


Posts: 100
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline 		Indeed the people of Japan themselves are acting so admirably in the face of impending doom.  I can only hope we can be more like them when faced with another situation like Katrina.  Instead of acting like a mob pre-pubescent animals.

_____________________________

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 6:59:50 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

I have heard offers of assistance from both the US and Europe.

I am not sure why my information experience is so different from yours.



Perhaps because you have the good fortune to avoid reading much of any media observations on the event, and especially the most recent "official statements" about it from China, the US, Europe, etc.


There most certainly have been offers of assistance, the follow up to that occurring as we speak, from people with the means and the brain and any semblance of empathy to do so.

The impetus to the OP was the disgusting "official statement" finger wagging from all the countries' clueless and heartless "departments of showing ass and annoying everybody" specifically named in said OP. The third reported "we are oblivious to their actual plight, all that matters to us is that they be johnny-on-the-spot in telling our official paper shovers and real information hiders (US/WMD, China/T-square, UK/I'land, the bankers, etc., etc., ...) what "inquiring minds want to know!" is what provoked me. OK, well the actual reported statements were along the lines of "they should have released information sooner." Not that they neglected the most important thing in acting soon enough, but that they did not inform confirmed dimwits (the media, government spokespersons, etc.) soon enough. As to informing their own people at what time, they had serious potential for further mayhem had they blathered everything 2 seconds after the fact. It's a struggle just to ascertain exactly what level of damage is occurring, when and where, in the midst of hundreds of emergency calls, sorry if that flies over everybodies' head here. People were going to die, unavoidable, people were going to be irradiated to extent of getting cancer, etc. The issue was to manage things so as to limit damage, however much delusional others thinking that "more information sooner" could have prevented all the deaths already occurred. I can assure you, any understanding of large crowd management instructs that information as released in appropriate manner is a large part of damage control.


This is controlled death management, and welcome to it. Japan acted imperfectly, because there is no way to act perfectly in this situation. None of this nattering by other governments with a history of intentionally causing misery to others or their stupid foreign departments or their lap dog media have any clue what caring for their own or other people actually means, and have no place to comment whatsoever on how Japan is handling this completely devastating event.

Sorry western world, the actual truth bites you in the ass repeatedly and you refuse to do your job and avoid upwards of 100,000 civilian deaths in the mid east, so, how about you just STFU about how Japan's instant response to a serious tragedy doesn't include the best press conference by your idiotic standards?


One thing I found quite notable was some Japanese nuclear agency or company official (forget which) leaving a press conference in tears, totally devastated by events, and even the thought of any previous actions on his part possibly contributing to the death toll. Contrast that to the belligerent Lloyd Blankfein or Henry Paulson, no apologies whatsoever, the later threatening America with complete ruin if we didn't hand over $700 billion right now. They felt no shame at all, far from it. It only heightened their innate belligerence. Bush and Obama responded as expected, but now we are to take any of their commentary (the media) on how Japan is handling this seriously?

Please.

Please.








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/19/2011 7:25:04 PM >

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 7:39:10 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Nice post Edwynn, I would ad that the Japenese will rebuild that country in less time that it will take us to complete fixing the mess in New Orleans. 6 + years and billions spent and not much being done down there.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 9:56:50 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiDS
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
I have heard offers of assistance from both the US and Europe.

I am not sure why my information experience is so different from yours.

Also Russia was the first to respond with actual support.  Jus sayin.  They are the closest after all.  The US carrier Ronald Regan, which was en-route to Japan had to turn around due to concerning levels of radiation detected.  I'm not aware if they just "went around" or what exactly their next course of action was.  But support seems to be getting delayed all over the board.  Save Russia, as I have already stated.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/18/navy-reflects-week-service-quake-stricken-japan/
After more research here is the US contribution so far.

It didn't turn around, it just changed course to stand by outside the plume, as did the 2 other ships.  In addition, we've sent nuclear experts as requested.

(in reply to ChiDS)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/19/2011 9:58:04 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Nice post Edwynn, I would ad that the Japenese will rebuild that country in less time that it will take us to complete fixing the mess in New Orleans. 6 + years and billions spent and not much being done down there.

Just today I read an article that many of the destroyed homes were owned by old folks on small pensions, who will not be able to rebuild.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/20/2011 6:40:18 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Perhaps because you have the good fortune to avoid reading much of any media observations on the event, and especially the most recent "official statements" about it from China, the US, Europe, etc.


Perhaps you could provide a few links with some examples of this.


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/20/2011 8:45:30 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Indeed the people of Japan themselves are acting so admirably in the face of impending doom. I can only hope we can be more like them when faced with another situation like Katrina. Instead of acting like a mob pre-pubescent animals.


In less than 9 days, the japanese people have gotten help from many nations and outside charitable groups.

2 days after the quake, this was reported...

quote:

Meanwhile, the Chinese language daily Lianhe Zaobao said the Singapore rescue team has arrived in the quake-hit city of Soma in Japan and started rescuing operations on Sunday afternoon.


http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90851/7319115.html

2 days after the hurricane...

quote:

Time Uncertain - Red Cross President Marsha Evans asks permission to enter the city with relief supplies, but Louisiana state officials deny permission.


http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html

Please, dont ever equate these two events.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Kudos to Japan - 3/20/2011 8:51:12 AM   
TotalDiscipline


Posts: 225
Joined: 5/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Indeed the people of Japan themselves are acting so admirably in the face of impending doo


Ah..you didn't hear about the footage they didn't show us..with people screaming and running.

_____________________________

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Love is the law, love under will.

shorten your answers to the essence

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Profile   Post #: 20
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