quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I believe you said you agree with the president, some time after your original baiting post (I think it was still on the first page) but it was nebulous, and then you went on baiting with more bullshit, and here we are.

quote:


NATO Discord


The question of who assumes leadership in a U.S. handoff was unresolved, as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization inconclusively discussed whether to take charge. Norway and Italy said their participation in air operations depends on settling who will be in command.


France proposed a new political steering committee, outside NATO, take responsibility, Foreign Minister Alain Juppe told lawmakers in Paris, according to Agence France Press. Wrangling over the alliance’s possible role in the four-day-old air campaign had exposed divisions over the command structure and strategy for the fight against Qaddafi.


President Barack Obama, speaking in Santiago, Chile, yesterday said the U.S. would hand off its leadership role “in a matter of days, not a matter of weeks.”


“This command-and-control business is complicated, and we haven’t done something like this kind of on-the-fly before,” U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates told reporters in Moscow today. “It’s not surprising to me that it would take a few days to get it all sorted out.”

quote:

Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart

Tensions with Britain as Gates rebukes UK government over suggestion Gaddafi could be assassinated

French propose a new political 'committee' to oversee operations

Germany pulls equipment out of NATO coalition over disagreement over campaign's direction

Italians accuse French of backing NATO in exchange for oil contracts

No-fly zone called into question after first wave of strikes 'neutralises' Libyan military machine

U.K. ministers say war could last '30 years'

Italy to 'take back control' of bases used by allies unless NATO leadership put in charge of the mission

Russians tell U.S. to stop bombing in order to protect civilians - calls bombing a 'crusade'

Deep divisions between allied forces currently bombing Libya worsened today as the German military announced it was pulling forces out of NATO over continued disagreement on who will lead the campaign.

A German military spokesman said it was recalling two frigates and AWACS surveillance plane crews from the Mediterranean, after fears they would be drawn into the conflict if NATO takes over control from the U.S.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368693/Libya-war-Germans-pull-forces-NATO-Libyan-coalition-falls-apart.html#ixzz1HRqxKoG3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Amen to that
he certainly isnt relishing it, which is what is causing the hissy fits and conniptions from the right, well one person in particular
its getting more and more ridiculous with every post tho

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


There was no baiting, you deliberately failed to read past the OP headline despite the fact that I suggested twice that you read the OP and get up to speed on the thread prior to commenting.

You chose to remain ignorant, and now rather than take responsibility for your own poor judgment you want to cry like a schoolgirl and complain that I was baiting you.

You do deserve a certain amount of sympathy but not for anything Ive said or done

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I believe you said you agree with the president, some time after your original baiting post (I think it was still on the first page) but it was nebulous, and then you went on baiting with more bullshit, and here we are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


This much is true, the leadership vacuum has thrown NATO into turmoil

quote:


NATO Discord


The question of who assumes leadership in a U.S. handoff was unresolved, as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization inconclusively discussed whether to take charge. Norway and Italy said their participation in air operations depends on settling who will be in command.


France proposed a new political steering committee, outside NATO, take responsibility, Foreign Minister Alain Juppe told lawmakers in Paris, according to Agence France Press. Wrangling over the alliance’s possible role in the four-day-old air campaign had exposed divisions over the command structure and strategy for the fight against Qaddafi.


President Barack Obama, speaking in Santiago, Chile, yesterday said the U.S. would hand off its leadership role “in a matter of days, not a matter of weeks.”


“This command-and-control business is complicated, and we haven’t done something like this kind of on-the-fly before,” U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates told reporters in Moscow today. “It’s not surprising to me that it would take a few days to get it all sorted out.”

quote:

Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart

Tensions with Britain as Gates rebukes UK government over suggestion Gaddafi could be assassinated

French propose a new political 'committee' to oversee operations

Germany pulls equipment out of NATO coalition over disagreement over campaign's direction

Italians accuse French of backing NATO in exchange for oil contracts

No-fly zone called into question after first wave of strikes 'neutralises' Libyan military machine

U.K. ministers say war could last '30 years'

Italy to 'take back control' of bases used by allies unless NATO leadership put in charge of the mission

Russians tell U.S. to stop bombing in order to protect civilians - calls bombing a 'crusade'

Deep divisions between allied forces currently bombing Libya worsened today as the German military announced it was pulling forces out of NATO over continued disagreement on who will lead the campaign.

A German military spokesman said it was recalling two frigates and AWACS surveillance plane crews from the Mediterranean, after fears they would be drawn into the conflict if NATO takes over control from the U.S.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368693/Libya-war-Germans-pull-forces-NATO-Libyan-coalition-falls-apart.html#ixzz1HRqxKoG3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Amen to that
he certainly isnt relishing it, which is what is causing the hissy fits and conniptions from the right, well one person in particular
its getting more and more ridiculous with every post tho

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Your cuntish tactics were never at issue, because it it a baiting thread, when I gave you the chance to admit it out loud that you agreed that there was no impeachment possible, that Reagan trained armed and funded Al Queda (from the roots of the muslim brotherhood) and  a few more things, you flatly denied the truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Youre not making much sense, and Lucy seems to have gone round the bend herself

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Youre not making much sense, and Lucy seems to have gone round the bend herself

If she's gone round the bend does that mean she's headed back toward reality?

And put "hissy fits" on the list of most overused words of the week.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You mention Code Pink

ok.....

quote:

O'REILLY: Our Unresolved Problem segment tonight, as we have been reporting there is a split among liberal Americans over Libya and other issues. Some on the far left believe President Obama is not doing a good job. But the mainstream liberal media in general remains supportive of the man they helped elect in 2008. Imagine, if you will, President Bush ordering the Libyan bombing, even with UN approval. Do you think the left would have supported that? But last night here's what went down.

SHULTZ: I think the President of the United States, Barack Obama, deserves the benefit of the doubt and our support.

MADDOW: He very clearly did not want there to be another military action in the world. He is very open about his reluctance. He wants everybody to know how reluctant he was.

O'REILLY: Everybody knows how reluctant [imitates bomb dropping]. Joining us now from Washington, Medea Benjamin, co-founder of the anti-war group Code Pink. When you hear that kind of stuff, Medea - you're honest woman, which is why we have you on the program. We know you are anti-war, we know you're Code Pink. We know all of that. You are honest. Those people at MSNBC cheer-leaded Barack Obama into office. They are hard core left wingers over there. Yet, yet, you know if Bush had ordered the bombing what they would be doing, but they are not doing with President Obama. What say you?

BENJAMIN: I think the word hypocrisy comes to mind. I'm sure if this were under President Bush they would be asking a barrage of questions about why didn't you go to Congress? Can we afford this? What's it going to cost? Don't we need jobs and not bombs? Is this really going to help the Libyans? Why not Bahrain, Saudi Arabia? All kinds of things.

O'REILLY: Alright, so you don't think they are doing due diligence in analyzing the situation. Now the question becomes: why? Why are they in the tank?

BENJAMIN: Well, you know, Bill, this is partisan politics. I think people that support President Obama wanted to see him as a reluctant warrior. But, yet, he was the one that gave us the surge in Afghanistan. We still have troops in Iraq. We are dropping drones in Pakistan that are killing innocent people. And now we see a - what I would say a rush to another war in Libya. So, at some point, have you got to admit that whether he is reluctant or not, he is giving us a lot of wars for a peace president.
Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan-markay/2011/03/23/oreilly-code-pink-founder-agree-schultz-and-maddow-are-hypocrites#ixzz1HS3W4YjB

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

FirmhandKy
[A]ll of your characterizations are false.


On the question of the similarities between the Bush admin's actions in Iraq and Obama admin's actions in Libya, I've not taken a stand.  Primarily because I've not taken the time to dig in deeper, and truly understand all of the issues (although, of course, I do have a "gut reaction", but I like to ensure that my gut and and mind are in sync before I take a stand).

Please refrain from both straw-manning and assuming.

In your post #100 on page 5 this thread*, no less than 4 times you went out of your way to observe that Obama's and Bush's policies are essentially the same.

On that basis I am perfectly entitled to make the assertion I made in my post, which was:
"Sanity, FirmhandKy et al seem to be complaining that Obama's policies are the same as Bush's."

There were no false characterisations, no straw manning, nor any assumptions by me. I took your remarks at face value. I didn't invent your words, your statements or your positions. You did. Own them.


* FirmhandKy's full post can be read at this addy: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3606078/mpage_5/tm.htm

mike,

I wasn't specifically and only trying to draw parallels between Obama's actions in Libya, and Bush's in Iraq.  I probably could, but truthfully I've been so busy otherwise that I've not done much of a deep analysis of the situation, and do not really have an opinion one way or the other about the US actions in Libya.

And, I'm not sure that your examples above actually address what Sanity is saying or pointing out.  I suspect that if I were interested enough to take your examples on, I would likely be able to shed a different light on them.

I will say that there are plenty of other examples of Obama=Bush that I don't really need to even list them, do I?

This particular incident (the use of US military forces against a "sovereign nation") simply highlights who the partisans and hypocrites really are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I think I may have misread you, so Im going to toss something back at you, and you tell me if Im right or wrong.

Code Pink is a "leftist" group that is consistent in their criticism of any war effort, regardless of who is in office.

quote:

FirmhandKy
So, basically, you failed to read for understanding. You failed to read in context. You failed to read beyond your biases. And you practiced selective quotation.

Your assumptions and your characterizations are indeed false, and you are indeed straw-manning.

Please refrain from doing these things. And I would request that you put more effort in your observations and comments if you wish to engage in a conversation or debate with me.