RE: Impeachment? (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 6:48:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

But I could make the argument that "socialist" is a purely descriptive term.

It becomes a pejorative when it is meant as a pejorative. When it becomes commonly accepted as an insult, it becomes difficult to distinguish between a descriptive use, and a pejorative use.

Such as "neo-con", which in common political discussion (on these boards, for example) almost without exception, it is used in the pejorative sense.

Its like how some black people use the "n" word.  It's not insulting when they do it themselves, because it's not meant to be an insult.

If someone wishes to call themselves a "neo-con", then they are making a statement, as are the people who use the "n" word to describe themselves.  Just as "liberals" use the term to describe themselves, and it's not an insult.

If you fling the word "neo-con" in a discussion, however, I would generally interpret it as an intended insult on your part.


That was an amazingly ridiculous argument.

So if I refer to you as a conservative that is somehow acceptable but neo-conservative is not?

There is nothing more insulting in using the term neo-con than using the term liberal, other than your tender feelings.

*shrugs*

Anything can be intended as an insult.  Context.  Tone.  Speaker.  Listener.

As you well know, since you do it all the time.

Unless you have a touch of Asperger's, in which case I'll forgive you for your social skills (or lack thereof).

Firm




Lucylastic -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 6:53:41 PM)

dear gawd the smugness in here is bloody revolting




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 7:04:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

dear gawd the smugness in here is bloody revolting


So leave and lessen it.




Lucylastic -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 7:11:06 PM)

I thought you didnt hate individuals wilburrrrrrrrr??
If I want your opinion, I will give it to you




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 7:31:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I thought you didnt hate individuals wilburrrrrrrrr??
If I want your opinion, I will give it to you



Reading comprehension problems? I didnt say a word about me not hating individuals, I said those on the RIGHT dont hate liberals, they hate their policies. And I personally don't hate anyone based on their political positions. I hate several people for other well founded reasons. You aren't one of them. I just feel sorry for you. In fact I would find it very hard to hate any faceless person on a message board, it takes a special kind of vermin to rise to that level, and I can only think of one person who does offhand. He knows who he is.




slvemike4u -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 7:40:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Call me names, pretend to be a victim, doesnt matter because support is support. We have taken sides in a civil war in order to affect regime change.

Facts are facts boys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV49AKxuI9Y

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/foreign-policy/150675-obamas-military-coalition-for-regime-change-in-libya

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/03/23/regime_change_libya_109314.html

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/obama%E2%80%99s-imperial-twist-%E2%80%9Chumanitarian%E2%80%9D-regime-change-libya



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV49AKxuI9Y

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

We are not giving them the F15 Strike Eagles you twit.
There is no way the above can possibly be anything other than you feigning ignorance due to an indefensible position .No one can be that daft.


Okay in the first case please show me where I am pretending to be a victim? And what the fuck am I a victim of?
Than explain where I have denied that support is indeed support ?
You accused me of splitting hairs? What hairs ? You sought to show an equivalency between arming the Mujaheddin(giving them fucking weapons) and prosecuting a NFZ.... I accused you of feigned ignorance...because I refuse to believe anyone who has reached a majority could be so stupid and put forth such a week proposition.
I apologize to you if I gave you way too  much fucking credit....apparently you are that big a fucking idiot!




Sanity -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 7:41:16 PM)


Only Kucinich is calling for Obamas impeachment, true. But there is a handful of  Dems who are acting in a manner thats consistent with their hateful attacks on Bush, and are at least acting like they are not very happy about the new war.

quote:

[image]http://images.politico.com/global/politico44/110324_frank_bored_ap_283_regular.jpg[/image]

Frank isn't buying case on Libya

Barney Frank says President Obama’s reasoning for attacking Libya without going to Congress first isn’t good enough.

White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters on Thursday that Obama “believes that consultations with Congress are important” and that “he has done that” before he gave the order to attack Libya last week.

But in an interview with POLITICO, Frank, the liberal congressman from Massachusetts, said “consultations are no substitute” for seeking Congress’s permission to go to war.

“Consultations, schmonsultations,” Frank said.



quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its only one person calling for it, mike. The same one who wanted Bush impeached. I, personally, see no reason to impeach.




tazzygirl -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 8:46:15 PM)

quote:

Only Kucinich is calling for Obamas impeachment, true. But there is a handful of Dems who are acting in a manner thats consistent with their hateful attacks on Bush, and are at least acting like they are not very happy about the new war.


When its declared a war, we can speak about that.

Im not happy with our involvement in this mess either. I wasnt happy about Iraq, I wasnt happy about Afghanistan. I dont suppose many are happy about any of this. Sometimes you have to do what has to be done. Im not happy about working. I would be even less happy about being homeless.




rulemylife -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 8:55:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

But I could make the argument that "socialist" is a purely descriptive term.

It becomes a pejorative when it is meant as a pejorative. When it becomes commonly accepted as an insult, it becomes difficult to distinguish between a descriptive use, and a pejorative use.

Such as "neo-con", which in common political discussion (on these boards, for example) almost without exception, it is used in the pejorative sense.

Its like how some black people use the "n" word.  It's not insulting when they do it themselves, because it's not meant to be an insult.

If someone wishes to call themselves a "neo-con", then they are making a statement, as are the people who use the "n" word to describe themselves.  Just as "liberals" use the term to describe themselves, and it's not an insult.

If you fling the word "neo-con" in a discussion, however, I would generally interpret it as an intended insult on your part.


That was an amazingly ridiculous argument.

So if I refer to you as a conservative that is somehow acceptable but neo-conservative is not?

There is nothing more insulting in using the term neo-con than using the term liberal, other than your tender feelings.

*shrugs*

Anything can be intended as an insult.  Context.  Tone.  Speaker.  Listener.

As you well know, since you do it all the time.

Unless you have a touch of Asperger's, in which case I'll forgive you for your social skills (or lack thereof).

Firm



If you wanted social skills you should have played nice to begin with.

But you chose the opposite path.

And I'm sort of enjoying slamming your balls to the wall every chance I get.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Impeachment? (3/24/2011 9:17:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

If you wanted social skills you should have played nice to begin with.

But you chose the opposite path.

Ahhh .... you are a grudge holder.

I'm not sure over what, though.  I give you no more (and probably a lot less) than you "give" me  and others in the "forum wars".


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

And I'm sort of enjoying slamming your balls to the wall every chance I get.


[sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif]

Firm




Sanity -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 3:39:22 AM)


WW II was our last declared, war tazzy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

When its declared a war, we can speak about that.

Im not happy with our involvement in this mess either. I wasnt happy about Iraq, I wasnt happy about Afghanistan. I dont suppose many are happy about any of this. Sometimes you have to do what has to be done. Im not happy about working. I would be even less happy about being homeless.




Sanity -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 6:41:50 AM)



Is Syria next?


quote:


Gates calls for Syrian forces to move aside


Syria should follow Egypt’s lead and the Syrian army should “empower a revolution”, Robert Gates, US secretary of defence, argued as thousands marched in a southern city.

Mr Gates made his comments – some of the toughest remarks to date by a US official about the rule of Bashar al-Assad, Syria’s president – on a day of further upheaval in the Middle East and beyond.
Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights or use this link to reference the article - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f4197d9c-5622-11e0-8de9-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1HcPEZvWo

The White House signalled it was preparing for a change in power in Yemen, where it has been allied with the government of Ali Abdullah Saleh, president. Nato allies reached a deal in which the alliance will take over command of the Libyan no-fly zone, although responsibility for strikes on forces loyal to Col Muammer Gaddafi will not immediately come under the Nato umbrella.

Drawing a parallel between the unrest in Syria and the protests that unseated Hosni Mubarak, Egypt’s former president, Mr Gates said: “I’ve just come from Egypt, where the Egyptian army stood on the sidelines and allowed people to demonstrate and in fact empowered a revolution. The Syrians might take a lesson from that.”

His comments came as thousands of people marched on Thursday in Deraa, southern Syria, where at least 44 people are now thought to have been killed in a week of protests, and as Mr Assad announced salary increases and promised greater freedom.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f4197d9c-5622-11e0-8de9-00144feab49a.html#axzz1HcOfHQcv




mnottertail -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 6:47:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

(In fact, Kofi Annan was still claiming that it was an illegal act, and that the chimp should have gone through the security council instead of staging a unilateral invasion with his poodle, after the invasion.)

I'm sorry, but you and Ron seem to have a misunderstanding of the differences between international law and Kofi Annan's opinion.

He stated his opinion, but unfortunately for him (and you) his opinion is not supported by the facts.

To illustrate, what legal action was taken to enforce or certify Annan's opinion?

And, I will say, claiming that the unsupported opinion of the kleptocratic responsible for the "Food for Oil" program (among other things) really doesn't look for good for you.

Firm



Ron has no misunderstanding. Ron did not say that Kofis opinion was equivalent to law, you need to get you some comprehension skills, as well as reading and honesty skills.

You are making a spurious argument, and you know you are.

In 2003, the governments of the U.S., Britain, and Spain proposed another resolution on Iraq, which they called the "eighteenth resolution" and others called the "second resolution." This proposed resolution was subsequently withdrawn when it became clear that several permanent members of the Council would cast no votes on any new resolution, thereby vetoing it. [1] Had that occurred, it would have become even more difficult for those wishing to invade Iraq to argue that the Council had authorized the subsequent invasion. Regardless of the threatened or likely vetoes, it seems that the coalition at no time was assured any more than four affirmative votes in the Council—the U.S., Britain, Spain, and Bulgaria—well short of the requirement for nine affirmative votes.

Defiance.  End of joke.

You ask for citation, of something that should be by now pretty fuckin regularly known, regarding this 'defiance'.  You then go on to attribute some fucking something or another to me that certainly was not evidenced by fact or spin.  It is called eliding, or strawman or whatever, unintended consequences conservative cognotive dissonance or that bias bullshit you like to post.

World Court?  Don't fuckin make me laugh. 


Dateline: 05/07/02
Through a letter to the U.N., the Bush administration has reserved the right of the U.S. to ignore decisions and orders issued by the International Criminal Court. The action effectively neutralizes President Clinton's signature to the treaty creating the court.


We left the World Court in 1986....

November 3Iran–Contra affair: The Lebanese magazine Ash-Shiraa reports that the United States has been selling weapons to Iran in secret, in order to secure the release of 7 American hostages held by pro-Iranian groups in Lebanon.

  • November 21Iran-Contra Affair: National Security Council member Oliver North and his secretary, Fawn Hall, start shredding documents implicating them in selling weapons to Iran and channeling the proceeds to help fund the Contra rebels in Nicaragua.

  • November 25Iran-Contra Affair: U.S. Attorney General Edwin Meese announces that profits from covert weapons sales to Iran were illegally diverted to the anti-communist Contra rebels in Nicaragua.

  • November 26Iran-Contra Affair: U.S. President Ronald Reagan announces that as of December 1 former Senator John Tower, former Secretary of State Edmund Muskie, and former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft will serve as members of the Special Review Board looking into the scandal (they became known as the Tower Commission). Reagan denies involvement in the scandal.

    Although Kofi declares it illegal, your requisite proof was defiance.

    How would I call it illegal, when chef does not do world law?

    It was a very good year for appeasement, funding terrorism to set it up to come back and haunt us (but not his only bedtime for bonzo chapter during his administration) by the Sainted Wrinklemeat, and imperialism.

    That's all.




  • FirmhandKY -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 8:20:46 AM)

    Moonhead's term was "in defiance of the UN".

    His proof was an unsupported and inaccurate statement of opinion by a kleptocrat.

    "In defiance of the UN" doesn't mean that something that they mighta, coulda, shoulda done.  It means going against their stated, official opinion.

    The last official UN "opinion" was that Iraq had failed to live up to all or most of it's previous resolutions.

    Iraq had violated earlier, still valid resolutions which gave UN members the right to continue the hostilities started in the Gulf War.

    Therefore, regardless of what "some" members, or individuals may have preferred, or wished, or hoped, the US did not take out SA "in defiance of the UN".

    Spin it how you want.  But facts are facts. 

    Firm




    tazzygirl -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 8:28:29 AM)

    quote:

    WW II was our last declared, war tazzy.


    quote:

    and are at least acting like they are not very happy about the new war.


    Is it or isnt it a war, Sanity? Both of those quotes above are yours.




    Sanity -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 8:31:20 AM)


    It doesnt have to be a declared war to be a war.

    War - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionarya (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2) : a period of such armed conflict (3) : state of war b ...

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

    quote:

    WW II was our last declared, war tazzy.


    quote:

    and are at least acting like they are not very happy about the new war.


    Is it or isnt it a war, Sanity? Both of those quotes above are yours.




    mnottertail -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 8:31:43 AM)

    Spin it anyway you want, Ron belongs out of the original post by you mentioning me, further spin it still and violation or no violation of previous agreements by Iraq the resolutions in place and at the time did not sanction an invasion, and when one was introuced it fell short of the requisite 9 votes by about half, maybe more.

    defiance?  that is an acceptable word for it.  

    I see we have our disagreements, might as well move on, the facts dont change.




    tazzygirl -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 8:34:48 AM)

    quote:

    Im not happy with our involvement in this mess either. I wasnt happy about Iraq, I wasnt happy about Afghanistan. I dont suppose many are happy about any of this. Sometimes you have to do what has to be done. Im not happy about working. I would be even less happy about being homeless.


    My statement still stands. Many are not happy about what is happening. We often arent happy about all the choices we have to make.





    Sanity -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 8:35:07 AM)


    Say a group of rebels didnt like the government in this country, and some foreign powers were helping them affect regime change. Would you not consider that a state of war, or an act of war?




    FirmhandKY -> RE: Impeachment? (3/25/2011 8:43:00 AM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mnottertail

    Spin it anyway you want, Ron belongs out of the original post by you mentioning me, further spin it still and violation or no violation of previous agreements by Iraq the resolutions in place and at the time did not sanction an invasion, and when one was introuced it fell short of the requisite 9 votes by about half, maybe more.

    defiance?  that is an acceptable word for it.  

    I see we have our disagreements, might as well move on, the facts dont change.

    Sounds good to me.

    We'll just agree to disagree.

    Best.

    Firm




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