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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:29:18 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

As I said..........to be a mind fuck it has to be believable. M wouldn't *pretend* to shit on me!  So hardly a mind-fuck if he plopped choc-bar on me. Boo hoo , he pooed on me...and I was so unprepared.

agirl


I'd gather the 'pretend' would lead you question if he was being sincere the next time you encountered an unbelievable act. If I found myself in the situation she described it's unlikely I'd be staring at a candy bar. It would introduce a line of doubt that defeats the purpose.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:37:11 PM   
kiwisub12


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Status: offline 		I see knife play as a mind fuck - and knife play never worked for me - because i trusted my Sir too much to believe he would ever cut me. And if there isn't that anticipation then all you have is a rather boring(for me) scene with a dom running a dull blade over a sub.

Obviously each would have to play to the subs fears - and knives and blood isn't one of mine.

Perhaps an element of mind fuckery is the belief that your dom would be willing to "harm" you.

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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:40:30 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline 		~FR~
 
I am all about the mind fuck. 
 
The purpose of a mind fuck will vary from person to person and according the nature of the mind fuck itself.  Speaking in the broadest terms, its purpose is to acheive the desired psychological and/or physical response without engaging in actions which could cause genuine harm to the subject. 
 
For example, my best friend's girlfriend is a heavy masochist who has some hard core evisceration fantasies.  Obviously, acting out these fantasies would cause her serious damage or even kill her.  However, they can be satisfied using various pain-inducing techniques and mind fucks.  For my birthday, they treated me to a demo of some of the techniques they use for knive play.  My friend and I dropped his girlfriend into her happy masochist place and brought her back up several times over the course of a couple of hours.  Then he demonstrated how they use scalpels to make small cuts and then use fingers and a dull knife to "open" the cut and simulate the sensation of poking around inside her flesh. 
 
We did this several times and then my husband brought out the pliers he uses to knit chainmail.  One of them looks very similar to forceps.  So we used those to pinch her flesh, used his carbonite practice knife to "cut" her, and then used some of the othre  pliers to "open" her up.  We were talking about what we were doing the whole time very casually, as though we were playing a game of Operation. 
 
Now, she trusts my friend implicitly and me by extension.  However, she also knows we're both pretty serious sadists.  According to what she later said about the scene, she knew she could trust us not to maim or kill her but she wasn't sure we wouldn't do something that would hurt her.  A lot.  In over five years, she hasn't considered safewording out until that night.  She decided to let it go to see what happened.  After that, she started losing feeling in her body except the little points of pain where we were actively touching her.  During the aftercare, she said she felt like she'd had a good night's sleep.  We couldn't have put her into that mental space without the mindfuck. 
 
So mindfucks can open the door to more intense and enjoyable experiences when done well and when everyone has a positive attitude toward them.  However, mindfucks aren't everyone's cup of tea.  I wouldn't recommend anyone try to engage in this type of psychological edgeplay unless they are in a well-established relationship where there is a deep level of trust. 

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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:42:54 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

As I said..........to be a mind fuck it has to be believable. M wouldn't *pretend* to shit on me! So hardly a mind-fuck if he plopped choc-bar on me. Boo hoo , he pooed on me...and I was so unprepared.

agirl


For you, it has to be believable. For you he has to actually shit on your chest. That isnt how everyone works.

Making that distinction would possibly take away the feeling that you are belittling those who would view that scenario as a mind fuck.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:45:24 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
As I do it, the purpose is very simple.  Some people like to get off on fear.

Wow, thanks for that John. I always got how it was this separate little bubble of reality (therefor not "lying") but I never had a clean handle on why anyone would bother. Thanks for putting it simply. Carol and I don't get off on fear so of course it makes no sense to me.


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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:53:44 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

As I said..........to be a mind fuck it has to be believable. M wouldn't *pretend* to shit on me! So hardly a mind-fuck if he plopped choc-bar on me. Boo hoo , he pooed on me...and I was so unprepared.

agirl


For you, it has to be believable. For you he has to actually shit on your chest. That isnt how everyone works.

Making that distinction would possibly take away the feeling that you are belittling those who would view that scenario as a mind fuck.


No, he has to be capable of it.  There's NOTHING belittling about our view of it..and I'd be thankful if you'd leave *everyone else* out of it.

agirl


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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:54:03 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. a friend of mine told me about her Dom telling her one day, while he had her tied up, he wanted to take a shit on her chest. She was mad. He blindfolded her, clothes pinned her nose shut, then went through the motions of dropping his pants and squatting over her chest. She felt the plop and started screaming. He even took pictures!

She ranted and raved. For days she was complaining, even contemplated leaving him. He finally admitted it was a snickers bar, warmed up, ooey and gooey... mad... she was one mad hen!

Not all mind fucks are sexual, or good. His mind fuck was about trust... and the fact that she had none.

Btw, they are still together, and every once in a while he will pull out a snickers, lear at her and say... Shall we?.. which sends her off into a rant of fake grumbling with a goofy grin on her face.

Priceless.



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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:55:10 PM   
princess2m


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quote:

A well done mindfuck does depend on suspension of disbelief on the part of the submissive, but a good dominant can create conditions where that is relatively easy.


Thank you for your expertise. I would appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit more on the "suspension of disbelief" concept.

Respectfully,
p

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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:55:32 PM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

I see knife play as a mind fuck - and knife play never worked for me - because i trusted my Sir too much to believe he would ever cut me. And if there isn't that anticipation then all you have is a rather boring(for me) scene with a dom running a dull blade over a sub.



That's rather funny since one submissive pointed out that she was more afraid of my knife than my gun.  "I know you won't shoot me but I do know you are quite capable of cutting me."


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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:57:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Its how I viewed your post. And I doubt I will be leaving "everyone else" out of it, even though I never mentioned "everyone else" in my response. Im sure every Dominant is capable of taking a shit. If they wanted too, I have no doubt they are capable of taking a shit on the chest of their slave.

Question that remains is... do they want too? Does not matter... unless you are part of the mind fuck.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 4:57:13 PM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: princess2m

quote:

A well done mindfuck does depend on suspension of disbelief on the part of the submissive, but a good dominant can create conditions where that is relatively easy.


Thank you for your expertise. I would appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit more on the "suspension of disbelief" concept.

Respectfully,
p


Fairly simply, most submissives know that I wouldn't harm them so they have to suspend this disbelief so they can be "properly" afraid.


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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 5:07:09 PM   
frazzle


Posts: 1212
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Status: offline 		Each to their own, but that to me is role play and if i wanted that id join an ameteur dramatics group.
If i was genuinely afraid, that would be the end of the relationship.

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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 5:10:11 PM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
The way I've always thought of it is that lying under normal circumstances is completely unacceptable from either side, within the bounds of a relationship, but within a purely sexual context the not knowing can be exciting. I make it clear with subs up front that I have a tendency to do things like that, so as to prevent any sense of my being an inherently dishonest person. It seems to work out fairly well. That said, I can see where you're coming from with it and that's something that took me quite a bit of philosophising to reconcile.

Again, just to be really clear. I fully well understand how it is that "some" lying can be good and appropriate and I'm not suggesting that "mind fucks" are necessarily bad. I get it that we can have a zone of activity in which deception is good -- surprise birthday party anyone?

I was only pointing out that between Carol and I it wouldn't be good. We don't do "play" or "scenes". So for us there is just "Real life" and that would mean any deception is "real deception". This isn't a good or bad thing... just a question about how we process our reality.



Yes but you have also stated many times in context of your relationship kink wise, you are very vanilla and don't "do" BDSM activities, it's an M/s mindset, rather than engaging in the physical aspect of WIITWD right? Which is awesome, great, not casting any aspersions on what's better or any of that nonsense, I don't play in public or even call what we do play, or sceneing, it's our relationship.  He does what he wants and that's that.

So it really isn't even in your radar sort or? For me, and I assume those of us that *love* a good mind fuck, I know he's not really fucking me in public, or cutting me with a knife, but I also know when I am screaming down the roller coaster it isn't going to crash but the fear/thrill/adrenaline is why I love the feeling.

I don't even understand how "lying" comes into the discussion here. Hard to fuck with someone when you give them a pre laid out step by step plan of what devious thing you have up your sleeve. Of course, I trust him a thousand percent, so that may be different in some cases.


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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 5:16:53 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
The way I've always thought of it is that lying under normal circumstances is completely unacceptable from either side, within the bounds of a relationship, but within a purely sexual context the not knowing can be exciting. I make it clear with subs up front that I have a tendency to do things like that, so as to prevent any sense of my being an inherently dishonest person. It seems to work out fairly well. That said, I can see where you're coming from with it and that's something that took me quite a bit of philosophising to reconcile.

Again, just to be really clear. I fully well understand how it is that "some" lying can be good and appropriate and I'm not suggesting that "mind fucks" are necessarily bad. I get it that we can have a zone of activity in which deception is good -- surprise birthday party anyone?

I was only pointing out that between Carol and I it wouldn't be good. We don't do "play" or "scenes". So for us there is just "Real life" and that would mean any deception is "real deception". This isn't a good or bad thing... just a question about how we process our reality.


I know he's not really fucking me in public, or cutting me with a knife, but I also know when I am screaming down the roller coaster it isn't going to crash but the fear/thrill/adrenaline is why I love the feeling.

I don't even understand how "lying" comes into the discussion here. Hard to fuck with someone when you give them a pre laid out step by step plan of what devious thing you have up your sleeve. Of course, I trust him a thousand percent, so that may be different in some cases.



EXACTLY!!!
well said Aynne88

i know some people who do think of it as lying, but to me, it's not even remotely the same.


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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 5:19:03 PM   
Aynne88


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Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks Lilly you doll. .

I was hoping that analogy made sense to someone besides me.


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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 5:23:24 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

I don't even understand how "lying" comes into the discussion here. Hard to fuck with someone when you give them a pre laid out step by step plan of what devious thing you have up your sleeve. Of course, I trust him a thousand percent, so that may be different in some cases.


Don't you love how it always comes back to that? Well stated!

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 5:30:45 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

I see knife play as a mind fuck - and knife play never worked for me - because i trusted my Sir too much to believe he would ever cut me. And if there isn't that anticipation then all you have is a rather boring(for me) scene with a dom running a dull blade over a sub.



That's rather funny since one submissive pointed out that she was more afraid of my knife than my gun.  "I know you won't shoot me but I do know you are quite capable of cutting me."



And there you have the barest mindfuck.............What are you afraid of?.......what you KNOW will NEVER happen or what you KNOW may well happen?

Agirl






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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 5:47:49 PM   
NocturnalStalker


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Status: offline 		I'm a walking cryptogram.

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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 5:54:36 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

I see knife play as a mind fuck - and knife play never worked for me - because i trusted my Sir too much to believe he would ever cut me. And if there isn't that anticipation then all you have is a rather boring(for me) scene with a dom running a dull blade over a sub.



That's rather funny since one submissive pointed out that she was more afraid of my knife than my gun.  "I know you won't shoot me but I do know you are quite capable of cutting me."



And there you have the barest mindfuck.............What are you afraid of?.......what you KNOW will NEVER happen or what you KNOW may well happen?

Agirl







That's why the thought of a mindfuck around knife play would thrill me to no end. It wouldn't be a matter of if he would cut me, but when and where he eventually would.

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RE: mind fucks - 3/21/2011 6:00:08 PM   
poise


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

I'm a walking cryptogram.

Don't move NS!



Be very, very still.
 
 
I just saw something crawling up your pant leg.





Whew, I got him!  This time.

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