Don't Rush In -- (Full Version)

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LillyBoPeep -> Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 12:56:26 AM)

i subscribe to the newsletter from www.submissiveguide.com, which is run by a woman called lunaKM. i really like the site, and feel free to check it out, but this came from the most recent news letter and i thought i would share it. it has some useful bits and pieces that i think novices would benefit from, and anyone else is free to reflect on --
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Know Thyself, Don't Rush Into a Relationship Until You Know These Six Things
by lunaKM www.submissiveguide.com

The excitement of a new D/s relationship is often the first thing that a novice submissive seeks. How else are they going to learn about play, and submission than in a relationship, they might reason. There is a better, more prepared way than jumping into a relationship with someone before you are ready. Taking the time to really know yourself and what you want from a relationship will make you better able to handle a D/s relationship and less likely to have your heart broken.

Being a single submissive preparing for a relationship is just about as much work as those of us in relationships. Personal development should be your main focus. So, as a novice what is it you need to know about yourself before you seek a relationship? I have six very important tasks that should help you prepare for a happy future. Let's learn together what your expectations are, what you can offer and who you are as a submissive.

1. What kind of submissive are you? You may not know this at first, but submissives come in all sorts of types and predilections. Understanding what sort of submissive you are will help you find a Dominant that matches you well. A few common submissive types are full-time, service-oriented, sexual, domestic, kitten/pup/pony, slave, property. Learn about as many types as possible and then figure out where you place yourself amidst them.

2. What do you have to offer a Dominant? If you ask a submissive what they want in a Dominant it's very likely you will be presented with a laundry list of things they are looking for. But have you even given any thought to what you can offer a Dominant? What skills and positive behavior traits do you have that would make you attractive as a submissive? Being aware of what makes you a valuable person and submissive can go a long way in your personal development. It can not only help you find things to enhance, but also where you need to work to improve yourself.

Activity: If you had to put yourself up for sale on an auction site, what would the description be like?

3. What are your wants and needs? Your wants and needs in a relationship have always been my first questions when asked for advice about where to start in BDSM. I've got a whole series here on Submissive Guide about your wants and needs if you want to read them. And if you are a member of the newsletter you received my more indepth report on wants and needs. Your needs are some of the most important points to a possible relationship. In order for these needs to be met you have to know what they are and talk to potential Dominants about them.

4. Do you have a BDSM activity checklist? If you are kinky at all you'll want to have a list of activities that you enjoy and ones you don't. It's also helpful for novices to have a list of activities that you've heard about and are curious enough to try or get more information on. Submission is not always a part of the kinky activities that many of us engage in, so if you are not interested in a little bondage and what not, make sure you say so.

The internet is full of checklists that you can print off and fill out. Each one seems to try to outdo the other and get more and more detailed and off the wall. You really don't need all that. Start with what you know and build from there. Don't feel bad if you look at a 10 page list and don't know what something is; it's likely that others (including myself) don't either.

5. What type of relationship are you looking for? Are you looking for a casual partnership or a full-time romance? Is your idea of a perfect relationship one that has the kink in the bedroom only? Just as there are so many different types of submissives, there are relationships to match those preferences. As you learn and grow in submission your ideal relationship could change as well.

You could be looking for play partner relationships at first but then move to a weekender relationship with someone you care for and ultimately you want the married with 2 kids relationship. Knowing what you want now and what you are looking for in the future will definitely help you in your search for a partner that is compatible to you.

6. What are your long term goals and dreams? Lastly, you should ways look beyond the here and now and think about what your long term goals, dreams and plans are. Do you want children? Marriage? A house? What about the type of job you want? All of these things need to be compatible with a partner as well; especially if you want a lifetime relationship. Don't forget that the vanilla things in life should match up too!
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anyway, so what are your thoughts? i like to do these kinds of things from time to time, to see if anything has changed. it's always good to reflect, at least in my opinion. so tomorrow, i'll probably take a smidgen of time and scribble in my journal and see what i come up with, and if new things have cropped up, or old ones have fallen away.



DarkSteven -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 4:45:21 AM)

I don't really like this list.  The big objection is that IMO 5 and 6 are the really important ones, and the list emphasizes kink and play over relationship compatibility.

Te other, smaller, objection is that 1 IMO is approaching this wrongly.  I have frequently asked submissives what it is about submission that draws them - pleasing another, wanting to hand over the reins after a full day, getting off on the level of deep trust necessary to make it work, being a pain slut, avoiding wussy partners that cannot even decide on what restaurant to  go to, or simply enjoying being tied up and spanked.  (Obviously, they're not mutually exclusive).  To me, knowing why a sub wants to submit is more important than knowing which box to put him or her in.



gungadin09 -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 6:01:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

1. What kind of submissive are you?

2. What do you have to offer a Dominant?

3. What are your wants and needs?

4. Do you have a BDSM activity checklist?

5. What type of relationship are you looking for?

6. What are your long term goals and dreams?

...anyway, so what are your thoughts?...


When i met my first Dom, my entire concept of BDSM was based on the Story of O. My first time out, i got into a car with a complete stranger, who drove me out to the middle of nowhere. i'm probably lucky to have returned. What an idiot.

i wish i had the sense to do some research before i started. These questions- what kind of submissive you are, what kind of dynamic you want, what kinks you're into... perhaps those are things a person doesn't know right away. But they *should* start out knowing that internet porn isn't a realistic model for submissive behavior.

i think these questions are a good starting place, but i would add on a list of limits. i think that even more important than knowing what you want is having a clear picture of what you absolutely can't live with.

pam



angelikaJ -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 6:14:04 AM)

The interesting thing to me about this was that although I dabbled for 14 months or so, when the man who eventually became my Master found me here, the only thing I had was #4 and that wasn't even something he asked about.

I had no idea what kind of submissive I was, what I wanted, what i was looking for or what I had to offer.
I had not identified my wants and needs and there were no long term goals/dreams.

It all began with Him.

First meeting, then getting to know and interacting with him made me decide I wanted something more than casual... and that I wanted it with Him.

The rest of it we worked out along the way.




Aileen1968 -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 6:36:01 AM)

The only kind of lists I like are the lists I make of what I need to get done that day.
This kind of checklist would make my brain form limits and boxes.
I just go with the flow. If it feels good and right then it is.

I have never thought of my relationship with Shorey in anything other than being in a relationship with a man. Not a dominant man. Just a man.
If we are just who we are and mesh well together as that then that's all the brain power I would give it.

Edited to add....these kinds of concepts, checklists, etc. make it all seem cold and sterile to me. Like a job.
I like it passionate and spur of the moment. I can't achieve that if I'm always trying to mentally fit it into categories.



porcelaine -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 6:42:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i subscribe to the newsletter from www.submissiveguide.com, which is run by a woman called lunaKM. i really like the site


Greetings,

Luna has been around for a long time and we converse on occasion and she's very nice. I think she's picked up the baton and makes a valiant attempt to offer sound information for those new to the path and others that would like to expand their repertoire. The resources that were once available that covered introductory subjects and more in depth matters that veer away from theory to practical elements aren't as plentiful as they once were. Or worth the mouse scroll in my opinion.

quote:

Taking the time to really know yourself and what you want from a relationship will make you better able to handle a D/s relationship and less likely to have your heart broken.


This is the key ingredient for any relationship. The better equipped you are on the subject called 'you' the better your ability to partner with someone that complements that truth in a positive fashion.

quote:

Being a single submissive preparing for a relationship is just about as much work as those of us in relationships. Personal development should be your main focus.


This is an old school approach. There is merit to being a workhorse and the benefits are huge. But I don't find that most -and I do mean the majority- are addressing their submission in this manner. In short, what you put in is what you get out. For some, being adept is NOT the goal. I just wanted to throw that in.

On the whole it isn't a bad article. She's clearly indicated the audience it's presented for and it would probably prove useful for them. As always, beginner doesn't mean novice as in clueless. We each come to the kneel with experiences and skills that could turn that concept on its head. The importation of ones positive facets is merely one side of the coin. Learning how to use them and actually putting them into practice is half the battle.

These are my thoughts...

quote:

What kind of submissive are you?


What are you bringing into your submission and what would like to get out of the relationship from that angle? What elements of service and roles do you find appealing and why? What do you dislike? Can you envision yourself doing these things? If no, why not? Is your interest or repulsion apt to change depending on the person? What impediments to your submission can you pinpoint? Have you addressed them thus far? Why or why not?

quote:

What do you have to offer a Dominant?


What do you bring to the relationship table that the other party may find beneficial? What skills and attributes have you cultivated that may assist in task completion? Are there specific areas you'd like to explore or talents you've longed to develop? How do you imagine yourself using these things? Also, can you accept if that will not occur and he designates something different? How attached are you to your way of living and what are you uncomfortable altering?

quote:

What are your wants and needs?


Can you distinguish between real wants and needs? What does your ideal relationship look like? Does it include a small portion of both, or is it heavily laden with one or the other? Is it a realistic snapshot that you've ever realized? Where are your areas of compromise? What happens if you don't get what you want or need? Would that mean they're not important, or maybe not as important as you once believed? Can you find happiness no matter what?

quote:

Do you have a BDSM activity checklist?


What is your level of exploration thus far? Are you aware of the difference between theoretical interest and the practical act unfolding? Can you recall activities that seemed appealing that weren't in actuality? What are you afraid to explore? Is there a reason for the fear or a significant event attached to it? Are you sincerely comfortable allowing another person to dictate your sexual activity? Are your limits fixed or movable? Distinguish them. What drives your kink? What have you learned thus far about yourself through the things you enjoy sexually? Are you surprised?

quote:

What type of relationship are you looking for?


Where are you in your journey and where would you like to go? Have your ideas altered recently? How do you define your submission and are your selections a reflection of this or in opposition? Are you ready to submit to another persons control or are you still holding the reins? Are you afraid of letting go? What happens if you really do? Do you expect the ideal to be realized or are you willing to explore other options? How long will you reasonably wait to find the one you seek?

I didn't expound on the last portion because it is my belief that most people are relatively clear about those things. The caveat has always been bringing the two worlds together and creating a livable fit. If the individual can really answer the other five and did so with brutal honesty, the latter question is already woven in the mix.

Thank you for sharing. I'll have to revisit the subject in my journal entry today. [;)]

Namaste,

~porcelaine



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 7:05:48 AM)

DS - i don't think the list emphasizes kink and play at all -- wants and needs, to me, means a lot more than "what do you want/need from play" -- it's pretty general. i think a question like "do you need love?" is a good question to ask yourself, and someone may find that they do, after dabbling in relationships where they don't have it.
and i would argue that understanding your motivations behind submission IS putting yourself into one box or another.

gungadin - i agree, i think a lot of them are things that a person may not know right away, or they're things that can often change COMPLETELY as you go along. i just like the idea that she's trying to provoke people to think about more than the story of O fantasies ^_-

angelikaJ - i can agree with you, too; that's how my last relationship went. i had no real experience with BDSM, but found a really fulfilling relationship that grew up from "fuck buddies" (totally out of character for me) to "M/s." #4 wasn't something he asked about either,  #3,5, and 6 came out along the way as we got to know each other, #2 he decided for himself =p and #1 was figured out over the course of the whole deal.

so i don't think that lists will fit every situation and person. they're probably more handy for people who've had a string of unfulfilling relationship. but i do think it's a good starting point - it might motivate a new person to have some important conversations that s/he might not have otherwise. i think understanding your motivations is really important at some point, and even if a person doesn't have all 6 of those answered, 1 or 2 is better than 0, but that's just my opinion.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 7:11:48 AM)

Aileen - in a way i agree with you; i think people can get too attached to lists and think that the list (or contract, or whatever other written-down document) will provide ALL the answers, and the fact is, it won't. but the list/contract never really should have that expectation put on it.
for some it helps to handle it more as a business thing, and for others, it doesn't help. i think this only really has to be approached as a business-type thingie if you feel like handling it that way. i've written things like this in my journal on the spur of the moment, too - "what am i really looking for?" people ask themselves those questions, but i think having them all presented here together makes it seem like it's super formal, when it really isn't.

porcelaine - luna is very nice, i like her. ^_^ she's got a lot of great insights to share with people.
quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
The caveat has always been bringing the two worlds together and creating a livable fit. If the individual can really answer the other five and did so with brutal honesty, the latter question is already woven in the mix.

i have to agree with you there; these things are really quite interconnected, and you sorta answer each of them in part by answering one of them.

like i said, i dont think lists should be thought of as things that will provide ALL the answers, and sometimes people take them that way. "Ah! this will show me EXACTLY what i need!" -- well no, it should serve more like a mirror, to reflect things back at you that are already there.



OsideGirl -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 7:21:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I don't really like this list.  The big objection is that IMO 5 and 6 are the really important ones, and the list emphasizes kink and play over relationship compatibility.
And misses the big one: core values.

And number 2: What do you have to offer a Dominant? Well, that should just read "What do you offer to a partner?" Because it doesn't matter which side of the kneel on, you should know that answer. And this answer should be about more than D/s, BDSM and kinky sex.



sexyred1 -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 8:03:34 AM)

I agree with those who are not fans of lists. I think the only important consideration is what you are seeking in a relationship and the compatibility and chemistry you have with a partner.

I don't need to assign myself a box as to what type of submissive I am, since I could never define it. It is just one facet of who I am and to me this smacks of interviewing for a job.

I don't love all the labels relating to this; I think people try to overanalyze what they are, why they like what they like, etc.

If a man asks me too many questions about my idea of submission, etc. I am turned off. I would rather he ask me what types of movies I like.



sunshinemiss -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 8:47:05 AM)

Hello, I am sunshine, voice of dissent. Ah well...

I actually love lists (the absentmindedness in me I guess). I find them amazingly helpful to get clarity, to use at jumping off places, ways to explore and to think and consider. By taking each of those things apart and analyzing it, people can get clearer about what's what for them - even make a list that works better for them. Lists appeal to my need for order. I don't think they are the end all and be all, nor do I think they should be swallowed hook, line, and sinker, but I appreciate them quite a lot.

I use lists all the time - things I want to work on, exercises I want to do, classes I want to take.... When I look at a list, FOR ME, it helps me to see the glaring missing pieces. If ideas are all over the place, it's just flotsam and jetsam to me. A detailed, step by step list, though. *sigh* yay!

I'm off to bed... night everybody.
Good night Lilly
Good night Steven
Good night Pam
Good night Angelika
Good night Aileen
Good night Porcelaine
Good night Oside
Good night Red
Good night Moon (oh sorry - wrong list)



porcelaine -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 9:42:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

porcelaine - luna is very nice, i like her. ^_^ she's got a lot of great insights to share with people.


Yes she is. There are resources on her site that a few of us have been using for years that weren't generally put in public. I believe they are very beneficial. And the journal prompts do provide something to chew on if you're the sort that enjoys that. It began with kaylee and I'm glad she picked it up. I used to do it long ago.

quote:

like i said, i dont think lists should be thought of as things that will provide ALL the answers, and sometimes people take them that way. "Ah! this will show me EXACTLY what i need!" -- well no, it should serve more like a mirror, to reflect things back at you that are already there.


Introspection is never bad. And while I didn't address this in my original comments, there are ramifications of striving for excellence. One of the largest is recognizing that many dominant men aren't seeking that brand of submissive, and you're essentially picking from a specific batch instead. I don't think that suggests that neither take this seriously. They simply don't need that level of formality or structure in their personal relationships. So be a workhorse if you feel called to do so, but understand you'll require a dominant that values that mindset and the skills you've cultivated because of it. 'Best' doesn't always translate into having more options. [;)]

Namaste,

~porcelaine



leadership527 -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 10:15:34 AM)

I'm reading this with two different thoughts:

a) Overall not bad.

b) I would never even consider a partner who needed this stuff told to them. It's relationship 101 material.



angelikaJ -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 12:01:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

angelikaJ - i can agree with you, too; that's how my last relationship went. i had no real experience with BDSM, but found a really fulfilling relationship that grew up from "fuck buddies" (totally out of character for me) to "M/s." #4 wasn't something he asked about either,  #3,5, and 6 came out along the way as we got to know each other, #2 he decided for himself =p and #1 was figured out over the course of the whole deal.



It was actually His asking me what did I want that catalysed the whole thing.
I had been talking to another dom who was quite a distance away and that I had never met.

I was always upfront about that with both of them.

And then He asked me what I was looking for and I realised I didn't know.
And things began to crystalize.. just a thought, that I might know it when I saw it and then the slow realisation that it might have been sitting across the table at lunch with me earlier in the day.
Not the who... but the possibility of more.

I ended up sending him an email while he was away pleading my case: that the direction I had been headed in wasn't what I wanted and that I was willing to work to prove otherwise.

Of course, the proof was in the doing.




LillyBoPeep -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 6:19:12 PM)

sunny -- i make lists like that, too. =p to-do lists for the day, lists of things i'd like to learn, like languages or painting techniques or WHATEVER. sometimes it's nice to cross an accomplishment off the list.

anyway, i don't really see it as feeling "interview-y" because i don't really see this as something you pull out and look over with someone. to me, this is something that's merely meant to provoke your own thoughts.
and sure maybe it's relationship 101, but i think even the most thoughtful person often misses something that turns out to be REALLY important in hindsight. i think this article is just trying to get people to think beyond their fantasies.
and as far as it lacking a section on core values, well for me, "needs" covers core values. so i don't really see that as an issue.

anyway, i'm enjoying the responses so far, and i like to bop these kinds of questions around in my head from time to time. my last relationship sorta "happened," and this time around i have some ideas on things that are important to me, and it's been interesting and rewarding to dig in and do some thinking.





VaguelyCurious -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 7:15:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

#4 wasn't something he asked about either,  #3,5, and 6 came out along the way as we got to know each other, #2 he decided for himself =p and #1 was figured out over the course of the whole deal.

Right. Because that's how relationships actually work. Most people figure out this stuff as they go along. I'm not sure why kink relationships ought to be different.

I'm reminded of something the anteater said when I first got here - it was something along the lines that when you find the right person the checklists stop mattering. Maybe they're good things to think about when you're (generic you) single, to get things clear in your head, but be prepared for all that 'I'm this kind of person who wants this, that and the other' to go straight out of the window - otherwise you could be closing yourself off to something unexpected but wonderful, no?



0ldhen -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 7:29:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i 1. What kind of submissive are you?

2. What do you have to offer a Dominant?

3. What are your wants and needs?

4. Do you have a BDSM activity checklist?


5. What type of relationship are you looking for?

6. What are your long term goals and dreams?



My Sweet Sheperdess, my apologies, I had intended to get to this earlier but the bread needed baking, the furkids feeding etc....

So here are my thoughts; The questions on the list are valuable to everybody, especially if you are just beginning your journey as a submissive. Some each of us could use to reevaluate where we are at X point as we grow and develope.

I can see where some have issues with list while some find them good tools, that in itself depends on the leanings of the person you ask.

It is a good basic list, it could be expanded but I think(Goddess help us) the idea was a simple list for beginners. As such it is fairly well written, I see a few changes I would make, but all in all a nice offering.



0ldhen -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 7:32:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

sunny -- i make lists like that, too. =p to-do lists for the day, lists of things i'd like to learn, like languages or painting techniques or WHATEVER. sometimes it's nice to cross an accomplishment off the list.




Lol, and grocery lists, and sewing lists and phone call lists......

I have notebooks all over the place, call it Age Activated Attention Deficit Disorder.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 7:40:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
otherwise you could be closing yourself off to something unexpected but wonderful, no?



sure that's always possible, OR you could be aiming yourself in a bunch of wrong directions because you've been told that pondering your motivation is somehow "bad." =p

if you get to the point of closing yourself off, you've gone to far, IMHO. i don't think there's anything inherent about any of these questions that sets that up as the likely outcome. people do that to themselves by thinking "this list will be the key to all of my answers!" when that isn't true at all. the problem isn't with the questions, it's with the extreme expectations people place on something like this.

and yeah there's a way that real relationships work, but that doesn't mean that people should hold all of their thoughts UNTIL they get into something with someone. people think about this kind of stuff every day; it's only "bad" when it's presented all together.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OldHen
I think(Goddess help us) the idea was a simple list for beginners.


yeah i think that was luna's point; just a way to motivate beginners to think beyond the fantasies. in that vein, i don't really have a problem with it.




gungadin09 -> RE: Don't Rush In -- (3/22/2011 9:04:14 PM)

Well, i guess you're just a planner, or your not, huh?

i think it makes good sense to have goals for a relationship. Doesn't mean they're written in stone. Doesn't mean you can't change your mind. But to have an *idea* of what you're looking for seems smart, in my opinion.

With some minor variations, the same list could work for other areas of your life. For instance, you're going to a job interview. You might want to know:

What kind of an employee are you? What are your strengths/weaknesses?

What do you have to offer a potential employer?

What do you need/want from the job?

What would you like to learn or accomplish there?

What kind of environment do you work best in?

How does the job fit into your long term goals?

Etc.

Personally, i rarely make life decisions (relationship or otherwise) without at least running through that checklist in my mind, even if i don't write it down. i usually have reasons for the things i do (even if they're not always *good* reasons, they're still reasons!)

Having said that (several people have already mentioned...), there will always be the person who comes along and makes you throw the damn list out the window.

i still think the list is a good starting place. And, definitely a better starting place than The Story of O.

pam









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