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Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/22/2011 7:35:48 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

U.S. forces in Afghanistan are preparing for possible riots in the wake of Der Spiegel's decision to publish three "trophy photos" of U.S. soldiers posing with the Afghan civilians they killed. Senior NATO officials in Kabul say that the images could be more damning than the photos from Abu Ghraib because the Afghan civilians were deliberately murdered by a rogue U.S. Stryker tank unit that operated in Kandahar last year. The existence of the photos came to light last year during the court martial of five soldiers accused of killing three unarmed Afghan civilians. According to the AP, the photos, from the print edition of the magazine, show Corporal Jeremy Morlock from Wasilla, Alaska, grinning as he lifts the head of a corpse by the hair. The images are just a handful from a collection of 4,000 images and videos.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/03/trophy_photos_of_army_kill_tea.html

(I've decided not to link directly to the photos Der Spiegel has released. They are easy enough to find at this point, I suppose.)

I'll be interested to see how the coverage of this plays out. It's far more brutal than anything that came out of Abu Ghraib, but I think it's going to get a lot less attention than the scandal for Bush II. I also think it is very telling how many stories decide that the first of the soldiers they need to identify, has the same hometown as Sarah Palin.

It's better than blaming the guy who is keeping them there, right?

Yeah. It's going to be real interesting to watch where this goes.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/22/2011 7:39:09 PM

DarkSteven

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While I condemn what was done, it seems to be the work of a few rogue soldiers (mavericks?), while Abu Ghraib was perpetrated by the entire prison.

Palin has nothing to do with this. It's a slight stretch of journalistic license to mention Wasilla in the article.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/22/2011 7:50:26 PM

TheHeretic

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In the interest of full disclosure, Steve, and because some (other) folks are really ignorant about this stuff, the US military regards a servicemembers hometown as a vital statistic, and it gets regurgitated in the media on a regular basis.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/22/2011 10:04:23 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Abu Ghraib was perpetrated by the entire prison.

Really, Steve? The whole prison, huh?

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/22/2011 10:29:22 PM

slvemike4u

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While I wouldn't presume to place words in DS's mouth I do believe the point he was making there is that while this is a case of a few rogue soldiers...Abu Gharib was more emblematic of systematic disregard for the UCMJ.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/22/2011 11:06:19 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

While I wouldn't presume to place words in DS's mouth I do believe the point he was making there is that while this is a case of a few rogue soldiers...Abu Gharib was more emblematic of systematic disregard for the UCMJ.

If memory serves me well, didn't the trail of approval for torture (aka robust interrogation techniques) go up and up and up ..... all the way to Rumsfeld's and Cheney's offices?

It has been suggested that approval actually started there and spread downwards to the lower ranks. Key personnel at Abu Ghraib had previously honed their torture techniques and skills at Gitmo. It seems to me they had every reason to feel their behaviour had the support and approval of their superiors.

Despite Bush's recent unconvincing claims that the events at Abu Ghraib sickened him there is a mountain of evidence to suggest torture was initiated at, and approved by the highest levels of his Administration.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/22/2011 11:15:28 PM

slvemike4u

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That is what I took from that despicable episode.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 3:00:09 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

U.S. forces in Afghanistan are preparing for possible riots in the wake of Der Spiegel's decision to publish three "trophy photos" of U.S. soldiers posing with the Afghan civilians they killed. Senior NATO officials in Kabul say that the images could be more damning than the photos from Abu Ghraib because the Afghan civilians were deliberately murdered by a rogue U.S. Stryker tank unit that operated in Kandahar last year. The existence of the photos came to light last year during the court martial of five soldiers accused of killing three unarmed Afghan civilians. According to the AP, the photos, from the print edition of the magazine, show Corporal Jeremy Morlock from Wasilla, Alaska, grinning as he lifts the head of a corpse by the hair. The images are just a handful from a collection of 4,000 images and videos.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/03/trophy_photos_of_army_kill_tea.html

(I've decided not to link directly to the photos Der Spiegel has released. They are easy enough to find at this point, I suppose.)

I'll be interested to see how the coverage of this plays out. It's far more brutal than anything that came out of Abu Ghraib, but I think it's going to get a lot less attention than the scandal for Bush II. I also think it is very telling how many stories decide that the first of the soldiers they need to identify, has the same hometown as Sarah Palin.

It's better than blaming the guy who is keeping them there, right?

Yeah. It's going to be real interesting to watch where this goes.

The difference is the evidence, despite a whole bunch of officers lying, was that the torture at the the prison was at the very least approved by the chain of command if not actually encouraged while the evidence from Afghanistan is that this was a single Stryker crew operating against the orders and approval of the chain of command.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 7:03:39 AM

Moonhead

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I don't get the impression that's a significant distinction for Rich. (Unless there's a government in office he doesn't like, in which case they're responsible for everything that happens during an occupation by preventing any level of the military from practising any autonomy at all.)

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:14:59 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

Abu Ghraib was perpetrated by the entire prison.

Oh come on DS. You usually do better than this.
You know this how?
How many courts martial were there?

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:17:11 AM

truckinslave

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quote:

the evidence.... was that the torture at the the prison was at the very least approved by the chain of command

What evidence was that?

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ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:21:54 AM

Hillwilliam

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Blaming Palin for the actions of a soldier that happened to be from her hometown makes as much sense as blaming me for some dumbass out in a camper in the woods cooking meth.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 12

RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:29:14 AM

tazzygirl

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No one is blaming Palin... unless you believe Rich is implying someone is.

Other soldiers were named, as were their home states.

During the court martial, two of the accused soldiers claimed the violence against civilians was at the insistence of their sergeant, Gibbs, who grew up in Billings, Montana.

One of the accused sent Facebook messages home asking his dad to report Gibbs because he was worried he would be killed if he spoke up. Testimony in the case alleged that the unit was consumed with drug use, including heroin, opium, and hash.

Doesnt seem to be, based upon the above, that it was the collective feeling of this group to do these things. Instead, a few went out of line, and will pay for it, as they should.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:31:57 AM

RacerJim

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Blaming Palin for the actions of a soldier that happened to be from her hometown makes as much sense as blaming me for some dumbass out in a camper in the woods cooking meth.

Well, the fact that the person who recently shot up that Congresswoman's press conference had had her in his personal "cross-hairs" for a couple years before Palin's web-site put a "cross-hairs" over her district for the 2010 mid-terms certainly didn't stop lefties from blaming Palin for his actions.

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Post #: 14

RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:41:47 AM

tazzygirl

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Wow, Insightful. Care to explain how you came to that belief?

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:43:21 AM

Lucylastic

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If a repub had been shot, you would have been looking automatically for a leftist
dont try to deny it
And the facts havent come out yet, so shut the door before you horse pisses on you and escapes.
No one is blaming palin here
I believe the people guilty of the afghan deaths and pics are already in jail???
so this isnt been brushed under the rug, they have been found out , caught and punished.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:50:41 AM

flcouple2009

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The real question is why this statement "Corporal Jeremy Morlock from Wasilla, Alaska" is of greater concern to you than this one "Gibbs, who grew up in Billings, Montana" ?

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 17

RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 9:59:56 AM

Hillwilliam

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I was referring to the title of the post taz.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 10:02:06 AM

tazzygirl

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Ah, ok, my bad. Rich also mentioned Palin in his OP. I dont see anywhere in the article where they try and pin blame on anyone, besides those already in jail.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Blame Pres. Obama, or Palin??? - 3/23/2011 10:08:09 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

the evidence.... was that the torture at the the prison was at the very least approved by the chain of command

What evidence was that?

General Miller who implemented torture at the order of GWB while at Gitmo was transferred to Iraq and placed in charge of Abu Ghraib. Torture and mistreatment of prisoners began after he took command.

The Taguba Report, the official army investigation of Abu Ghraib, blamed Miller as well as other individuals in the Chain of Command for what happened at the prison.
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/iraq/tagubarpt.html

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Post #: 20

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