RE: do you truely?

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needlesandpins -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 3:19:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder In our relationship I AM an object...sure I'm a woman but in our relationship I'm something he uses for his pleasures, whims, needs, wants, etc...that's what I'm here for. That doesn't mean he doesn't care what I think or how I feel...he absolutely does. You care how well your car is working right? If it's not running well it's not gonna get you where you need to go. If I'm not running correctly I'm useless to the relationship and to him. thanks for that littlewonder. i like that alot as i've read alot of stuff where it seems the person doesn't care about their sub/slave and maybe again this comes from someone who is truely a good Dom/me and a wannabe, or someone who in general is just not a nice person. needles

needlesandpins -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 3:42:45 AM)
thanks for all that Jeff, it's interesting to have it from the Dom's side too. what you have touched on there that i don't see alot of is the love aspect. you have the likes of FurkinTroll who very much comes over as Dom, but he also writes to show his other side too, that he does love and care for the ladies in his life. you have given me a real insight here into your life and the way you both see it. that is what i wanted to understand. i think the thing i have been missing in some of what i read is respect. some guys just seem to have a complete lack of respect for the other person, who in turn seems to be giving such huge amounts of themselves. it's almost like they think that D/s is just about the comanding, beating etc and not the care, respect and possibly love if it's that sort of relationship. what i'm begining to see is that there seems to be people for whom this is just life, and people who like to think they live the life. i think that there is alot of room for being taken advantage of in that situation for the novice due to not knowing any better. i really enjoyed reading through your post and the only reason i have come to it lastly in responding is that i could answer several things for others in one go (hopefully) there is alot to your post and i shall certainly be reading through it again and may even have to respond to it again as i'm bound to have missed something. untill then, again my thanks! needles

sexyfun25 -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 4:54:08 AM)
There is a huge difference in a truly dominant man, and a woman hating ass who uses the act of calling his self a dominant to find women to abuse. The true dominant man realizes you aren't perfect and never will be, there will be times he will have to understand if you are hurt, sick, or required to work late. He will want respect and expect a phone call to keep him posted of any unforeseen changes in your usual routine. He may expect you to make it up to him in someway if you were unable to do something of great importance due to work or illness. The second type of man has no idea that a true dominant feels a responsibility to his sub because he cares deeply for her and respects her and even though he may ask alot from her or try to push her he wants always for her to be the best version of herself. He will be in charge of the relationship, willing to earn your trust, beforehand. Its much like a job you have expectations put on you and rules to follow and a boss, but you also have the choice to quit that job. But as long as you choose to stay you will have those rules. The fake "dominant" will abuse you, will not respect things like limits or safe words, will not see you as anything more than a possession, he is dangerous to your safety, he will not give you the choice to stay or go he is the type that will threaten you and hold you hostage. They are predators. So only be with that man if you have a death wish.

needlesandpins -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 5:10:50 AM)
having thought some more about this and the way alot of you say it's his way, or the highway. what then happens if you are in a loving relationship and you decide that you just don't want to be a full on sub/slave anymore (forgive me as i don't know if it happens or not) but you still love him and want the relationship. is it all over just because you changed your mind? thank you sexyfun25, a good read. needles

NuevaVida -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 7:41:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins sorry that i've chopped this down, but i kept it in above in responce to Aileen and i'm hoping i can kind of respond to everyone. so i have addressed some of what you have said in responce to Aileen i think/hope. what you have said at the start is part of what i'm getting at and trying to understand. you mention people using their submissive nature as an reason/excuse to to have done things they probaly shouldn't have. but on the flip side of that is what forms part of what i want to know. do some guys just use the term of being a Dom as an reason/excuse to get subs/slaves to do things that a true Dom wouldn't. how easy is it for the experienced person to see through this when someone is writing in that style online compaired to the novice. it seems to me that there is a particular type of man who uses the Dom title as a blanket, they seem to be able to influence some females (i'm sure there probably are some guys too but i don't see that anywhere) who have the idea that they want to be a sub/slave. i'm thinking that they have a rather romantic view about the lable and what they want from it, rather than in the case of the people who are posting here where it is just part of who they are. maybe it is that initial romantic view that allows them to get way in over their heads and 'preyed' upon by certain types. i appologise if i'm not making myself clear, but i most certainly have no intent in insinuating or belittling. i certainly hold no shame at all for the questions i've asked, i also don't see them as dubious. far more shame to not ask questions and so have less understanding as i see it. a slight vanity also thinks that if i have these questions then so may others. if through me asking and others get to learn something too then fantastic. if not then thanks to the replies i've already had i have learnt more and as a knowledge sponge i am very greatfull [:)] needles There's so much I want to respond to in this thread but for now I'll start here. Here's the deal with me - there are going to be dubious people all over society, attempting to manipulate others for unscrupulous reasons. Our job as individuals is to know ourselves well enough to have already established healthy boundaries. Know what works for you and know what does not. Know your own moral code - your values, sense of ethics, your character. Know what terrifies you and why. Know what brings you joy and why. Know these things about yourself and people who don't stand up against your value system will stand out to you. You are in control of you until such time you choose to give yourself to another. The beauty is, right now, all decisions are in your hands. As to some of your other questions, yes, I do what he wants me to, even the hard stuff, even the stuff I don't feel like. I did my homework before getting into this relationship. I got to know him as a man, and to understand, like and trust his character. His intentions for me are good, and have proven more than once to be solid and coming from a good place. My standards in who I was to give myself to were quite high - he's going to be running my life, after all. And yes, I do question stuff that he puts on the table sometimes, and I do call him on bullshit when I feel that's what he's dishing, and I do offer my opinion, whether solicited or not. All that comes with the package that is me, and he embraces it. But understand, you get to a point where you don't feel the need to question his motivations or intentions or what he's doing, because you just know it's all going to be just fine. In my case, he's got my back - always. I am not alone and I don't have to grab the reigns for my life anymore. This was a strange adjustment, because I had become quite good at managing myself. But his leadership in my life brings tremendous joy, and I'll take that any day. Time and consistency leads to this place. All you can do is know yourself, know the person you are giving yourself to, and trust the decisions you make for yourself. Everything else falls into place.

NuevaVida -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 7:47:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins having thought some more about this and the way alot of you say it's his way, or the highway. what then happens if you are in a loving relationship and you decide that you just don't want to be a full on sub/slave anymore (forgive me as i don't know if it happens or not) but you still love him and want the relationship. is it all over just because you changed your mind? thank you sexyfun25, a good read. needles I'm going to take a stab at this one, too, before I scoot off to work. How unfair it would be of me, to take away the relationship dynamic that works best for him, saying "I love you, I want to be with you, but I don't want to give you what you want and need for yourself anymore." We work so well together, not only because our personalities blend, but because we feed each other what we need in a relationship. If he chose to no longer want to lead my life, well good heavens that would be a tough decision I hope I never have to make. But I need a man at the helm, and one who wants what I have to offer. Anything other than that would lead to frustration and resentment. I suspect the opposite would be true. He wants a woman who will serve him and obey him. How rude of me to suggest to take that away from him but keep him bound to this relationship, which would undoubtedly become unfulfilling to him. I really can't see either of us changing to such an extreme, but stranger things have happened, I suppose. For us, it wouldn't be such a simple matter of "just changing our minds" it would be a core fundamental change to who we are and what makes us tick. And yes, I suspect if I didn't want to be his slave anymore, we would have some really difficult conversations about that, and try to figure out a solution. Otherwise, I'd go on my way and free him up to get what he deserves - a woman who will meet his needs.

needlesandpins -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 8:23:30 AM)
thanks very much for your input! needles

Asherscorp1 -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 8:30:50 AM)
Let's see if I can keep all of this straight and add something beneficial to the mix of great responses so far ... I understand what you mean about some Doms coming across as jerks who just don't care. I personally could never, ever submit to someone who saw me as/treated me as/spoke to me as lesser or inferior to him. Master and I dated for a few months before I became His property and if he had not treated me with the utmost respect I never would have stuck around. It's not hard to tell if someone respects you, even if you are submissive to them. If they care about your frame of mind, if they are attentive with their after-care, if they pay attention to your responses and reactions to what they ask of you ... without all of that I could never trust a Dom. If he just wanted to use me with minimal or no consideratin for my emotional well-being I would absolutely be done with him in a heartbeat. If some women get off on that then I won't knock it but yes you can absolutely tell when a man feels that way and when he doesn't and choose accordingly. When my Master and I were first dating he explained to me that we are exactly equal in importance, we just have vastly different roles. Each of us should appreciate, nurture and love what the other offers as a gift that we are priveleged to receive. That said our relationship is not and never will be "fair." I do what he tells me to do. Always. If I think I am incapable of doing it then I will try my hardest and keep trying until I either succeed or he is satisfied with my effort. Master has started helping me with my workout routine and I spent 5 minutes last night trying to do one single push-up in the exact way He had instructed me to. Giving up was not an option. Neither is disobeying. I wouldn't want to disobey a command I've been given anyway. Master and I spent months building our relationship and honing our understanding of how to fulfill each other before we stepped into the realm of my being His property. My desire to disobey was trained out of me a long time ago. If I am truly utterly incapable of doing something he has commanded, if life gets in the way somehow I present that to Him and He decides to punish me or not. Yes, there are times I would rather not do what He tells me to do. Not that I desire to disobey, just that sometimes I would RATHER do my own thing but never at the expense of being available to or obeying Master. Our routine after my son is in bed is that I kneel at His feet while He reads or does whatever else He would like and I simply wait to be sent to fetch things, to be used, or to be sent to bed. This can get tedious, I won't lie. Sometimes I just want to sit on the computer and relax myself and zone-out for awhile. If so, I ask Master if I may do that. If he says no then I have other ways to feel good about what I am doing even if I do feel like I would prefer the chance to have time to myself. Just sitting and meditating on my role in our relationship is a wonderful way to spend time waiting for Master to notice me or direct me. I have learned a lot of valuable things about myself in that time spent kneeling and I have come to enjoy it even when I am a bit frustrated by it. As for walking away from this relationship, yes I could just as He could. I do think that as time goes on that will be harder and harder for both of us. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point neither of us could force ourselves away from this relationship simply because we are both so completely involved and have given all of ourselves to the other person for so long. Time will tell. In the context of wanting to eliminate the D/s aspect of our relationship, no that wouldn't fly for either of us. We both absolutely need that from each other and while we may need to at some point re-define it, tweak it, adjust it to our present needs scrapping it and me no longer being His would never be acceptable. I hope some of this helped you out a bit.

porcelaine -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 9:09:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins as i see it no-one is truely a slave or owned by anyone, you are free to walk away at any time. i try not to lable myself really as i don't seem to fit anything at all, i consider myself to be my own person. Greetings, i don't find your confusion strange at all. in fact, as time goes on i think i'm joining the same camp. Many posit one thing and say another in the same breath. i've expounded on this subject in another thread and you're welcome to pick my brain if you'd like. In terms of labels, i find property or chattel more fitting than slave, but i use the latter for fluency in my writings. Most have 'some' concept of what that entails. When i address myself by the former i'm speaking of an omission of autonomy and an independent mindset that exists outside of the other person. i am not a submissive nor really a slave if i wished to utilize a technicality. i'm a surrrendered woman. That is my etching and it exists in my life in various forms. It isn't merely how i engage with my partner. quote: but some of the male Dom's just come over as complete arseholes. they seem to have a complete lack of seeing a woman as anything but an object. i get the whole you are my toy to do with as i please, but in some cases there really does seem to be a total disreguard for the woman as an actual person. that she is just a thing to be discarded when the next thing comes along. That situation is two-fold. And keep in mind, many 'relationships' are undertaken rather rapidly which is not always in either parties best interest. You're essentially dominating and submitting to ideals rather than people. As for the respect factor, i've seen the behavior mentioned and it isn't acceptable. However, i don't knowingly conduct myself in a manner that will invite it either. It is my belief there's some confusion on how a woman can express her sensual self without doing it to the extent where her person is objectified by others as mentioned. It is a fine line. And i'm speaking of strangers in that context, not the one she's partnered with. quote: as the 'slave' can you really tell the difference behind a man that is just a twat, and one who is basically a good guy but can satisfy what you want. also, do you truely consider yourself to be owned in such a fashion that he can do what the hell he likes under the umbrella of being a Dom? Yes and no. i'm coming from different angles on this and i hope they meet when done. :) In the past my judgment was founded on principles that included some measure of submission coupled with the common sense and life lessons i'd attained. But now it's very different. The ideologies have been laid to rest but the lessons are there for my perusal. But they whisper different teachings this time due to the internal changes i've undergone. i suppose my risk factor has amplified, but the possibility of gains has too. i consciously unveiled myself and refuse to put barriers in place to offset a supposed threat. i aspire to be open and transparent and embrace the moments of vulnerability and uncertainty. But they aren't a cakewalk. i'll be honest. my opinion and level of interaction with the opposite sex have had their own metamorphosis. It is lessened in certain ways and expanded in others. We relate far more than we did in the past and that isn't limited to dominant men, but men in general. i find they respond to me rather positively in most instances. i don't consciously carry ideas that people are bad or attempting to pull the wool over my eyes. So there is a measure of naivete involved. But its omission has allowed me to connect in a manner that i truly enjoy. And if those interactions never yield fruit i gain something from them in the long run. i don't believe i'm an oracle and i think there will be instances when an error in judgment will take place. But i look at the landscape and consider my track record overall rather than focusing on the limited exceptions i've encountered. i suppose what i'm saying is that i don't expect to be taken advantage of or horribly manipulated and i don't draw individuals to my person that are seeking to do this. in a roundabout way i get what i offer unselfishly in one form or another. quote: if i'm not making myself clear, please ask questions or just type away as you see fit from what i've wrote. but please understand that i am trying to really understand the thinking because if alot of these guys spoke to me like they do, or about me like they do other women i'd be telling them to go away, c u next tuesday. because i want to understand i may ask you further questions in that effort. i don't believe it's necessary to accept that kind of behavior. But i also feel that many don't consider the image they've created and if that may be drawing that element to them unintentionally. i believe a woman can be vibrant, beautiful, intelligent, and sensual, but she should exercise discernment on certain things. After all, she isn't seeking the attention or hand of the many, but a select one or (two) that complement her person. my countenance is a reflection of my previous partner's expectation (old habits die hard) and a modicum of wisdom as well. Do i receive those kind of correspondences? Rarely. But i've never given the impression that i'd welcome it or showed that "part" of myself that might paint a different picture. And i've also noted that some men find pleasure in provoking women that are more challenging in their opinions or assert themselves in a manner that ruffles his feathers. i don't believe one should respond to tomfoolery with the same. But to each his own. Namaste, ~porcelaine

littleone35 -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 9:24:41 AM)
I am Masters girl his sweetheart i am owned by him. He does not treat me as property or less then him. We both know he is the Master and i have to obey his rules. Sure i could leave run away but neither one of that wants that. Master says he is never letting me go unless i want him to let me go and i don't want that. Spotting men who are acting stupid or a twat as you called them is not always easy in the beginning (well sometimes it is). You can usually see quickly through their masks. That is why a good rule of thumb is give a relationship 6 months, see how he treats others. As to not doing it cause i don't fell like it. That aint gonna happen. He would not tell me to do anything stupid, unlawful or dangerous. So if i don't feel like it it don't matter he wants it done so it gets done. Mastet always says you can do whatever you want but there are conquences for your actions. I don't want one of them to be to leave me, and i love him and love pleasing him anyway so i just do as i am told. Matt's littleone

kalikshama -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 9:56:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins having thought some more about this and the way alot of you say it's his way, or the highway. what then happens if you are in a loving relationship and you decide that you just don't want to be a full on sub/slave anymore (forgive me as i don't know if it happens or not) but you still love him and want the relationship. is it all over just because you changed your mind? needles Renegotiate. My ex Dom liked to see me with women at swing clubs. I like women, but detested swing clubs. I tried talking to him about this but had to finally escalate to an ultimatum - "If I can't opt out of swing clubs, I'm not coming back." (I was out of state at my mother's.) Since I finally had his attention, I took this opportunity to renegotiate several other aspects of our relationship that I'd agree to try but found I could not tolerate. Next time around, I am picking a Dom who is easier to talk to >_<

porcelaine -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 10:08:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins having thought some more about this and the way alot of you say it's his way, or the highway. what then happens if you are in a loving relationship and you decide that you just don't want to be a full on sub/slave anymore (forgive me as i don't know if it happens or not) but you still love him and want the relationship. is it all over just because you changed your mind? i don't discount that the unthinkable can occur. But it's the what if in your question that i don't embrace. i liken it to saying what if my mother stops loving me? The feasibility is so minute and impossible to measure. It would take a significant alteration in both parties and even still, that doesn't mean it's over. Without a prevailing reason to conjure that idea, my mind simply doesn't entertain such things. i view that way of thinking as an impediment to my enslavement. And here's why: There's no logistical evidence to support the theory. i can't pinpoint anything that would provide a modicum of suggestion. i'm simply engaging in 'what if' games that may heighten fears, create concern, or throw me out of my usual calm demeanor. But for what purpose? What do i truly gain by torturing myself in that manner when the likelihood is minimal? And i'm a masochist. The application to enslavement is rather simple. He occupies my head space and the position continues to grow. With each inch of infringement taken, the possibility of thoughts that prove counter to the truth is significantly lessened. More than this, the results of allowing them to fester is rather unpleasant. When unreasonable ideas rear their head i combat them with the fundamental realities that exist and shut them down. If that proves problematic i take the issue to him. But if i keet mulling over things like this on a continual basis i'm going to throw myself into a tailspin at some point. While i believe introspection is a useful tool, one should rule 'it' as opposed to being ruled 'by' it. All things in moderation. Of course there's that underlying concept that i'm working towards and it really is the dividing line for me and a prospective suitor. One that lands him on the chopping block or into the next stage of relating. And that's continuity. i'm looking for something long lasting and that means an unshakable commitment from both people. The man that would easily throw his hands up in disgust or allow me to slip away uninterrupted is the one i wish to avoid. Because trust me, there are moments when i lose my head and i might tiptoe towards the gate. It's in those instances when i need a nice strong pull that reminds me of my place. Not the one that opens the door. This brings me to another truth about slavery. Getting to the door is one thing. Walking through it is something altogether different. When you cross the threshold into Ownership you're entering another world. In many respects the opening is far easier to walk through than its exit. I prefer my labyrinth to be constructed with no way out. That suits my temperament much better. There's something wonderfully comforting about being stuck. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine

needlesandpins -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 10:48:06 AM)
thank you all very much ladies, you've all been most helpful. that's not to say that people shouldn't keep posting, keep it coming. it seems to me, from what has been said, that so much of this is about mind set and training, be that self or from the Dom. add in to that the huge amounts of trust involved too and it's a massive mix even without love involved. in that respect i can see that for the novice, or those not fully in touch with themselves, it could be easy to fall very hard into this very quickly with the 'right' wrong person. thus then finding themself in a tricky situation they are not sure they can get out of. it can be hard enough to walk away from any relationship where love is involved, but i think it must be an awful lot harder when you have given so much of one's self too. i'm probably not making much sence with that, but i know what i mean in my head and my fingers are itching with the frustration of not saying it how i want to. time also seems to be a big factor from those of you who have answered. which in turn makes me wonder how that trust and mind set is gained for those who just play on a casual basis. all most thought provoking. many thanks needles

peachgirl -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 11:06:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins having thought some more about this and the way alot of you say it's his way, or the highway. what then happens if you are in a loving relationship and you decide that you just don't want to be a full on sub/slave anymore (forgive me as i don't know if it happens or not) but you still love him and want the relationship. is it all over just because you changed your mind? thank you sexyfun25, a good read. needles I tried that once. didn't exactly work out the way I thought it would. at the moment I was mentally exhausted and had a case of the "I'm the worst slave in the world and I want to be left alone to wallow in my awfulness" times. he reminded me that it was me that had come to him saying I wanted him to be my Master. did I really want to let all that go? personally, I feel I fall under the umbrella of "internally enslaved", meaning that I am enslaved to the Man himself, not because of a label I have put upon myself. we've been through a period where we weren't a couple and I really don't want to be without him, ever. if there's something I really don't want to do, we talk about it. in the end, it's always his decision. it took me a long time to get to this point but we built a strong foundation of trust and it is what I draw upon whenever I'm feeling doubtful.

needlesandpins -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 11:58:18 AM)
peach, there is not much i can say to your post except thank you. but everytime i look at your avatar i can just visulaise the look on my playmates face, he has a thing for a good arse [;)] thank you. needles

porcelaine -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 12:03:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins it seems to me, from what has been said, that so much of this is about mind set and training, be that self or from the Dom. Slavery is an internal battle between me, myself, and I. You will never reach full enslavement until the 'you' that will resoundingly resist and sabotage that effort has been completely subdued. In my journey i have encountered good slaves, a few that are very adept, and just a handful of impeccable ones. Let me tell you a thing or two about the latter. She's bad ass. This woman will put on the gloves and take that 'chick' out. TKO. If she threatens to stand between her goal (i.e. the Man) and what they're building. She's not having it. Not on her watch. Now that may sound all well and good. But what it really means is she's willing to dismantle. Not a poke or prod. We're talking serious internal reconstruction. Not bits of His will, what feels good, or the newest phase. Everything. She may have areas of discomfort, but eventually He's all over them. Sit quietly and watch her struggle. It isn't pretty. But eventually she crumbles. Her need to please and acquiesce is stronger than the part of her that resists the change (aka Him). Getting to that point is half the battle. And it is an uphill climb. So what's the key? You touched on it in your response. The greater your knowledge of self, the more equipped you are to do battle. Part one. Now i'll give you the second. The more you cling to the life you've known (prior to slavery), the harder it will be for you to get to that point. You're divided. And essentially fighting two battles on one front. Yourself and Him. Real submission requires transmutation. Think of the snake that sheds its skin. How on earth can you yield when you've been programmed to do anything but? To believe that a relationship will undo a lifetime of one form of thinking is very naive. You need to address it. Some do it while in the throngs of a union. Others do so while waiting. If you believe you can build on the old without instituting change, you'll encounter a wall or several that will be hard to move past. So you take the sledgehammer, hide behind it and label it 'limits', or you create an excuse that justifies it. But you choose. There's a saying. The greater the goal. The greater the sacrifice. I have a sneaking suspicion you'll understand what i'm conveying between the lines. Namaste, ~porcelaine

porcelaine -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 12:33:17 PM)
There's something else and i just thought of it and it ties into your earlier comments about dominant men and their behavior. In my opinion, self-control is a very important part of my enslavement. But that doesn't happen overnight and i've noticed that if i have a hard time maintaining my cool outside of a tether, it won't instantly come into place when owned. You bring all of you into a situation. That includes habits and all manners of thinking. Yes, there are men that will push your buttons and attempt to incite all sorts of responses. From the good to outright antagonistic. However, if i permit a stranger to do that to me and go along with his antics - by abandoning the mindset i know is in MY best interest -, what's the probability of a more familiar and intimate source being able to do the same? In short, if i can't keep my cool with Smokey i'll probably lose it later on. And as a single woman i have experienced it. i'm well aware when men are jabbing me. i know some are testing this or that or looking to see if what i've stated is true. But their postulations are mere fortification in my mind. They offer timely checkpoints on my mental toughness and highlight things i may need to tighten up in the process. In a roundabout way, he's doing more to help my cause than knock it off course. But he'll never see the spoils. That's given to the deserving party that avoids such child's play. In the end you must be led by your personal rules of engagement and avoid being negatively influenced and impacted by unimportant outsiders. When they throw lemons in your direction, laugh and turn them into lemonade that you can utilize. :) Namaste, ~porcelaine

needlesandpins -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 1:16:26 PM)
porcelaine, i have had to read what you have written several times but i do know what you mean. while i will never be the slave/sub that some are, within my own life i think you have helped me understand a little of myself more than i did before. as you know i'm not really one for lables as such, and i come to this site from a swinging stance so hence all my questions. when my ex and i joined the first swinging site i would have always classed myself outwardly as a Domme. not in a huge sence just as a lable for others to identify with. but this wasn't internally true. the fact is is that the Domme mask was to hide everything else from everyone else. only i had access to that because at the time i was the only one i fully trusted with it. i loved my husband but he wasn't the type of man i felt 'safe' giving that to. he was wonderful in a lot of ways, and made me feel very safe in alot of ways, just not with that. after 15yrs i thought if i can't trust him with it i won't trust anyone. but i was wrong. i met my playpartner through the site and for other people's sake he would probably carry the lable of sub. but he, as it turns out, has a very dark side and in talking things through we have kind of met on common ground. he has given me the safety to explore myself more. i have given him the oportunity to explore his more Dom/dark side. i had alot of walls built to protect myself and kept guard of that hammer very well. i've taken some tentative swings with it since though, and have even handed it over for him to do the same. the rest we have been doing by hand. it's a learning curve for both of us as we are both on unknown ground but enjoying the exploring. there is alot of myself that i have to push aside to do that, but i'm ok with that, more than ok actually. we both like that in any given situation one leads the play, but that we can feel moments of the oposite role with that too. it's liberating being able to tell him how that feels and to hear his side too. there is some of what you have written that i will be able to apply to myself. it's never going to be the whole as it is for those of you in here. but still a spreading of my own wings. for that i thank you most kindly! needles

WestBaySlave -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 1:19:01 PM)
I feel that the "ownership" side of things is more a matter of mutual trust than anything. One often has two contradictory statements being true: "I have no limits - I absolutely trust my master and would do whatever he asks!" "Of course I have limits - I'm not going to be with some axe-murdering psycho who's boiling kids in the basement!" To some extent submitting to another person's authority is a little like that much-parodied trust test where one person falls back and another person catches them. The trust is based on the knowledge that the falling person will be caught, not through a desire of that person to sustain multiple head injuries. That being said, there are people who use others and throw them away without caring, and it's not just folks with a BDSM background. There are dominant men like this, but there are also absolutely vanilla men that use and throw away their lovers just as carelessly and with no more consideration. On another level, I feel human beings like absolutes, as we mostly live our lives faced with numerous uncertainties. Absolute submission to a person is an ideal unlikely to be reached, just as unconditional love is. Chances are, even with most self-identified slaves on this board, there are certain extremes of one kind or another that would push them to assert themselves. However, assuming their masters and mistresses are compatible and understand their partners well enough, the slaves may never be pushed to a point where it's impossible to submit. Perhaps as commonly, the ones in charge don't desire anything the slave can't give them. When most people commit to the point of being able to say "I will love you forever and always," it's usually done with a sense that we know that person well and can guess the likely future parameters of their behavior, at least to a degree. We will probably love that person a little less if they cut off all our limbs and start bombing orphanages. Same goes with "I will submit to you forever and always." One strives for ideals and works out with the best with what reality gives you. Sometimes it can be good fun!

porcelaine -> RE: do you truely? (3/29/2011 1:44:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins porcelaine, i have had to read what you have written several times but i do know what you mean. while i will never be the slave/sub that some are, within my own life i think you have helped me understand a little of myself more than i did before. Greetings needles, Let me begin by expressing my sincerest gratitude for your transparency. It is a gift and i salute you for your willingness to unveil for my benefit. It is always difficult and we never know how our audience will receive it. When i consider your original question and the ideas it brought to mind, and then second, and the third response. i'm led to believe there was something in it for us both. A message you needed to hear, and a reminder i had to see. We have aided one another unexpectedly. :) It is interesting that you note your beginning. i wasn't always on the kneel. Life was different for me back then. Like you i found comfort in control, but real liberation in captivity. The hammer has a purpose and your initial swings are appropriate. The walls were put in place for a reason. When we erect them we don't recognize we're building a prison of sorts. We become a human Rapunzel in our quest to prevent harm. But you've taken pivotal steps to remedy this condition. Don't sell yourself short. i didn't get this way overnight. And even now, there's much to be done. Many things i haven't toppled and mountains to scale as well. It is an endless journey but one that brings me immense satisfaction. i could not predict that i would be in this position at its onset. Once upon a time it was a vocation of sorts. And now it is my breath. There is no separation from the whole. You are slipping down the rabbit's hole. It's a dark space filled with nooks and crannies that you can't imagine and it can be terrifying. There will be instances when you step forward with confidence and fall backwards in frustration. Don't be dismayed. The canvas has strokes from every direction and in its initial phase it looks very haphazard and undone. But notice what happens as the artist continues. Those baby steps will lead you somewhere. That i can guarantee. You merely need to determine (at some point) if you're willing to hang in for the finale. And if so, be prepared for a surprise. The end won't resemble the beginning. But then again, if you wanted to maintain the original, you'd have avoided Alice and friends all along. I wish you much success on your journey and thank you for your reciprocity. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine

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