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The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 7:40:28 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Recently, I read this post on another forum (on livejournal) and I felt the need to repost it. The reason I want to repost it is to gauge the reactions of other members of this forum, both doms and subs, switches, slaves-whatever your orientation.

(From Livejournal: Male_Dom)

I start by touching her, and then a few slaps to her ass with my hand. She responded, and it sounded like I went a little hard. So I backed off, warmed her up slowly with the light flogger. It felt like I was barely touching her, but I know that she needs to be warmed up slowly, and we haven’t had any impact play for two or three months at least. So I’m obliging. I want this to end well. (For those of you on the edge of your seats, it did not.)

Eventually, I tell her that the warm up is over, and I work up to a heavier flogger, and then a heavier one, each time starting light and working up to harder force, trying to gauge her response and not give her more than she can process at a time. I’m pushing her, but not very hard, or so I think. I check in with her, tell her how good she is, how much I want her to please me, how much I want to use her, ask her if she’s doing ok. Each time she responds positively. Until after a few hard strikes with the heavier suede “thuddy” flogger I ask her if she can handle more, and she tells me that I’m pushing too hard, that I can’t do that kind of thing when we haven’t played in six months (it hasn’t been six. I know, because the last time we played was a month or two after xmas, when she gave me canes as a present). She tells me I’m pushing her harder than she is ready to take. Normally, this would anger me, but I know that she needs comfort more than me pushing her boundaries. For me, a scene in which she’s taking pain for me is all about pushing limits, and I don’t feel that I pushed her limits farther than she could take, even at this beginning level we’ve been at again, but whatever. I’ll oblige, slow it down, use less force, make it easy for her.

I start again with the lightest one, tap tap tapping. It’s at this point that I start looking around for the first time. Until then, I’d been totally focused on her. I had barely even registered that there were other people around us, or that they were watching us. Now, I realize that I’m hearing floggers all around me, and it’s as if every station is someone getting flogged, and everyone’s doing really cool stuff. So I figure, hey, I’m getting kind of bored of this simple light flogging I’m giving, so I pick up a second flogger. I try to build a rhythm that I can get into, something I can start to feel, even with less force. After all, energy is mass and velocity, so if I’m not using a high velocity, I can up the mass and get the same energy, right? (Physics, people.)

So, I’m trying to keep the energy flowing between us. I check in with her again because I realize, I may be giving her more than she can process right now with the two floggers. She tells me that I’m making it too complicated, that she feels like I don’t even care that she’s there. That I’m just playing with myself and having fun with floggers, instead of trying to interact with her.

That’s the last straw for me. I tell her if I go any simpler, it’s not going to be enjoyable for me. She asks me if I’m mad, and I tell her no, but I’m disappointed. This I guess may have been a lie. I think I was mad, but I was trying not to be. I know she’s telling me how she feels, not trying to weasel out of the scene or anything. She wants a good scene too.

But what the FUCK! I’m trying to engage in a serious scene here, about energy flow, about power, about her fucking taking pain for me! For her Master! And even in this, I’m trying to make the scene what she needs more than what I want. I want to beat the shit out of her ass with my floggers, with my bare hands even. I want to make her cry and beg and then beg me not to stop because she knows how much it pleases me to hurt her like this. I want her to take it, not because she likes it, but because I do. And I feel like she just wants a massage with a little sharp points in between. I feel like she’s the one calling the shots on how this scene will go down, and I’m tired of it. Telling me I’m pushing too hard, I can deal with that. Telling me she needs more light touching in between floggings, I’m all for that kind of feedback. Telling me that she feels like I don’t care if she’s there. FUCK THAT.

The only reason I do this is so I can make her scream. I fucking love the sound of her screaming in that ecstatic pain where she’s really letting go of everything and letting the fire burn through her body and leave her clean again. I know I can’t go to that level right away. We need to work up to that again, fine. I backed off on the force when she said it was too much. But how can she say that I wasn’t paying her enough attention? That I’m focusing too much on my motions? I’m doing that because I’m trying to get the energy in the scene up again without hitting her too hard. Otherwise, I’m just a guy swinging a flogger, and who the fuck cares? I might as well be rubbing sensual massage oil into her ass. It’s a flogging. It’s supposed to hurt. I get nothing from it if it doesn’t hurt her. I’m not going to rip her ass to shreds. I just want her to scream for me.

So I stopped the scene. How about that, a Dom calling a safeword? I called fucking red on her ass. Because I couldn’t take the manipulation I felt was coming from her. It wasn’t intentional manipulation on her part, I know that. But I wasn’t in control of the scene anymore. It wasn’t my scene anymore. So I stopped it.
 
My thoughts will be in the comments. Please share yours.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 7:49:14 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		Thinking that this guy is totally out of touch with his sub and shouldn't have been scening (especially what appears to be in public) when there's obviously something up with the dynamic. That opinion is over and above the thought that flogging someone until they are screaming so that YOU get off is kinda sick but ymmv.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 7:52:55 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I think that it was a very good thing he opted out of that scene... he was right, he was out of control, but not of the scene.  He lost control of himself... and nothing good can come of that.  At least he retained a sense that things had to stop.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 7:53:48 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I don't use floggers because of this statement
quote:

She tells me that I’m making it too complicated, that she feels like I don’t even care that she’s there. That I’m just playing with myself and having fun with floggers, instead of trying to interact with her.


Sounds like two people who both chose the wrong partners or the dominant doesn't have the charisma, skill, and experience to get what he wants.  Also, if they haven't been together for six months or whatever, the connection isn't there and he hasn't done enough to reconnect.  Could be she is just a shitty submissive unworthy of his great talents but that isn't where I would put my money.

Okay, I read it again, they guy is an idiot.  His entire conversation is in his head.  He knows she is a soft cuddly player, he knows he wants to beat the shit out of her and he has done nothing to put her into the mood to give that to him.  Yeah I could insert some manly/domly shit about "just doing it, being me" or whatever but that is crap.  Slapping a label of "hardcore" or whatever floats your boat doesn't make it so.  Having two people buy into it makes it so.

This is typical fluffy male wackoff stuff.  Nowhere in it does he doubt himself, the whole blame lies with her, everywhere in it he talks of "warming her up" and all the other buzzwords of the "good dom" but the deep core of making this shit work is starkly absent.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 7:54:57 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Rose,

Some of us LIVE for that sort of "sick" stuff.

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 8:06:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I thought it was a good thing he stopped and her comments seemed pretty accurate, he wasnt wanting to pay attention to her. He wanted to get caught up in the moment and the energy that he desired. There is nothing wrong with what he desired from the scene, but sometimes we do not get what we want, even if we are a dom. His anger kinda scared me as a sub because anger can lead to the loss of control... Like I said, at least he stopped, but I still do not understand his anger or his disappointment in the submissive, sometimes things just do not work out the way we planned,.. that's called life.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 8:07:15 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Did this guy give his okay to have his journal reprinted here? Just wondering...

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 8:16:20 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		It was posted in a public forum on livejournal...not an excerpt from a personal journal.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to Level)
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RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 8:20:04 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		I think he was fine and with her up until the point he noticed others getting what it was he wanted, so then he decided to up the ante so to speak,I feel even tempted to ignore her signs of distress,close to losing control of himself in order for his desires to be met..luckily enough he called the scene.But of course had to lay the blame at her doorstep for his lack of control.So in essence not a bad Dominant just human...be well...Tempting

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 8:20:26 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Total idiot. The smartest thing he did was stop. 

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 8:33:50 PM   
SumterDom


Posts: 60
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		Doms can call a safe word too. Think I'd have to do the same thing. It's not all about her after all. Sounds like a very "do me" player. Of course I guess that's what should be expected here from the majority of members. Not real dynamics folks but more the kinky sex then back to vanilla. I say he did the right thing.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 9:41:42 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear KittenWithaTwist, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
First off, I like to say up front, that I do love to flog, I have used three floggers in each hand, making a total of six floggers in motion at the same time, using the Florentine style.  Mainly, I stay to 1-2 floggers each hand though.
 
Floggers and or any toy is not the problem.  People are. 
 
For those who haven't worked with heavy suede floggers, the warm up is soft and velvet like however, the skin is awake/pink--the sensation is textured, somewhat like sandpaper but, softer and the sensation of impact feels heavier or more 'weighted'.
 
I also notice in this journal, that he isn't happy to play soft and is looking for any opportunity to heavy impact.  What then alarms me, is that he looks around and then, plays for the audience/show off/posture/rooster/competition.  This is where he is all about him and drops the needs of his submissive like a hot rock.
 
I may also add, that women's bodies have cycles and that effects the sensitivities of the skin.  Emotions and medications also impact on skin sensitivities as well.
 
I think by the own admissions of the writer, that he would prefer a masochist or one who enjoys pain and pain play and the girl is trying to be something she is not, out of a sense of "toughing it out."  Anybody can "beat" somebody--but, it is a "Master" that knows how to put the needs of the slave above their own in such a case.
 
Energy that is sought, comes from the spirit of intent.  Without the good intent the scene goes to pot and is wrecked.  When one person isn't having fun--the scene is going wrong period.
 
Energy from the core, the spirit, the intent will change the energy and force of impact. The Adrenaline increases the energy impact many times over.  (Ex. a slap without anger vs. a slap with anger=same motion different energy/power)
 
As soon as this Dominant looked around, thought of self and not the joint energy--she dropped emotionally and so did he.  I am glad he stopped the scene however, I do not think it was submissive manipulation.  I feel it is the Dominant attempting to make a masochist out of a sensual submissive/slave, going too fast, too soon and all for the wrong reasons.
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 9:45:56 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Sounds like two people who both chose the wrong partners or the dominant doesn't have the charisma, skill, and experience to get what he wants.  Also, if they haven't been together for six months or whatever, the connection isn't there and he hasn't done enough to reconnect.  Could be she is just a shitty submissive unworthy of his great talents but that isn't where I would put my money.


This is slightly taken out of context. There was more to this post on Live Journal than is presented here. I don't believe that they chose the wrong partners. They have been together over two years and were married a month ago. They haven't played in around six months. They had a bad scene because they hadn't played in a while and they decided to play in public. It also looks like they may have had conflicting expectations for their first scene in a long time. These factors can all make for a bad scene. I know because I've been there before.

quote:

Okay, I read it again, they guy is an idiot.  His entire conversation is in his head.  He knows she is a soft cuddly player, he knows he wants to beat the shit out of her and he has done nothing to put her into the mood to give that to him.  Yeah I could insert some manly/domly shit about "just doing it, being me" or whatever but that is crap.  Slapping a label of "hardcore" or whatever floats your boat doesn't make it so.  Having two people buy into it makes it so.


I don't believe he is an idiot. Yes, this conversation is in his head, but it's also the way he's chosen to present his thoughts in writing regarding an incident that happened prior to him writing it. His perceptions on the event itself may have changed slightly. It's possible that since the scene went bad, he was in a bad mood while writing about it. It's not that he was looking to be "hardcore" but he may have been attempting to show off since it was a public scene and there were other, more interesting (in his opinion) scenes around him. This is, unfortunately, a trap that many Doms can fall into.

quote:

This is typical fluffy male wackoff stuff.  Nowhere in it does he doubt himself, the whole blame lies with her, everywhere in it he talks of "warming her up" and all the other buzzwords of the "good dom" but the deep core of making this shit work is starkly absent.


First I think the fact that he posted the event to a public forum for opinions tells me that he was concerned about his performance in the scene. I think he was doubting his feelings after the fact. Second, there were parts of the original post that were ommited. This was the last statement from the original post:

"Dammit, I love my girl. She’s the hottest, brightest, sexiest, most charming and playful and wonderful girl I’ve ever known. I don’t know if she did anything wrong, really. I don’t know if I did either."

Here he is doubting whether or not she did anything wrong and whether or not he did anything wrong. The scene went bad and he honestly wants to fix that and make things better for him and his wife/submissive. If he didn't care, he wouldn't have posted about it and asked for comments.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 9:47:58 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Rose,

Some of us LIVE for that sort of "sick" stuff.


Ditto. I agree with you here. Although I do want to make sure the person I'm scening with is having a good time, when I'm in total sadist mode what really gets me going is hearing the screams and cries.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 9:56:38 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

Total idiot. The smartest thing he did was stop. 


So he was smart enough to stop, but he's still a total idiot? I think you're being too harsh.

I think he got caught up in the moment and he misjudged how much she was able to take since they hadn't played for a while. When she indicated that she couldn't take as much as he wanted her to, he became frustrated. He wanted more but knew he couldn't give it. And he felt that he was losing control of the scene. I think the idiot move would have been if he had continued despite what she was telling him. He had the good sense to stop. And it's okay to be angry. We all get angry sometimes. The important thing is that he stopped and did not continue to play in anger.

The couple have agreed to sit down and talk and work things out with each other. They indicated that they planned a second scene to make up for this bad one and they would take into account the problems associated with this one.

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 10:07:12 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I have to say, the way you are defending the situation sounds like it is you who wrote the entry in Live Journal, but none-the-less, I would have to say the Dom in this situation gave complete control of the scene to the submissive.  I would have to say neither were in the proper mindset prior to this activity.  If so, the submissive would have been willing and wanting to take and experience what he was doing, and would not have felt that the flogging was "confusing."  It appears he did not prepare her.  It appears when she completely manipulated the situation, he became frustrated and stopped.  It appears he had no control, no power, no authority over her.  Maybe it is that she is just having fun with role playing and realized she wasn't liking it.  But it does seem that neither were prepared for this.

Glad he ended the scene while he was angry.  Hopefully before he ever plays with her again, he will learn what it is to dominate a girl's mind, heart, and body.

(in reply to ArchangelMichael)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 10:07:30 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SumterDom

Doms can call a safe word too. Think I'd have to do the same thing. It's not all about her after all. Sounds like a very "do me" player. Of course I guess that's what should be expected here from the majority of members. Not real dynamics folks but more the kinky sex then back to vanilla. I say he did the right thing.


One of the most important skills that any Dom can learn is when to stop the scene, even if it's prematurely and they don't want to. You can call it safewording if you want. Doms also have limits. There are things they just will not do.

Something that was stated by the submissive in a comment to the original post was that their marriage comes first and BDSM second. She's been with him for over two years, so she knows what she's gotten into. She has indicated that she does like pleasing him. They do have a D/s dynamic, but there is nothing wrong with putting the vanilla relationship first. I don't think that means they aren't "real" dynamics folks. I always shudder whenever I see the word "real" used to describe anything in this lifestyle. What is "real" to some may not be "real" to others.

Since he posted this on Live Journal originally, I'd say that he isn't exactly an indication of the way things are here (on CollarMe.Com). There were more positive reponses to the LJ post and this was probably due to there being missing information here and the Dom and sub in question were both able to respond to comments. Some people even changed their tunes after finding out they were married. Many people seemed to assume they hadn't been together that long and didn't really know each other.

(in reply to SumterDom)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 10:09:40 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ArchangelMichael
Many people seemed to assume they hadn't been together that long and didn't really know each other.



Which speaks exactly to a previous post which suggested he wasn't really in tune with her.

(in reply to ArchangelMichael)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 10:18:29 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I have to say, the way you are defending the situation sounds like it is you who wrote the entry in Live Journal, but none-the-less, I would have to say the Dom in this situation gave complete control of the scene to the submissive.  I would have to say neither were in the proper mindset prior to this activity.  If so, the submissive would have been willing and wanting to take and experience what he was doing, and would not have felt that the flogging was "confusing."  It appears he did not prepare her.  It appears when she completely manipulated the situation, he became frustrated and stopped.  It appears he had no control, no power, no authority over her.  Maybe it is that she is just having fun with role playing and realized she wasn't liking it.  But it does seem that neither were prepared for this.

Glad he ended the scene while he was angry.  Hopefully before he ever plays with her again, he will learn what it is to dominate a girl's mind, heart, and body.


First, I was not the original poster. The person who posted the entry here can verify that. I have been in a simialar situation before, however, because I became frustrated with the scene. This was with someone who was my submissive at the time and with whom I've had some incredible scenes. Sometimes, the energy is just bad and expectations can be misread.

Second, there was more preparation than what's presented here. Again, some of this has been taken out of context. I'm not sure if it's okay to post a link to the original post, but here's the beginning prepraration that's missing:

"Now, we've been having some trouble lately, with enforcing the dynamic, keeping her in her slave mindset and me in the Master zone. So this time, I start out by reminding her who and what she is, and what her purpose is, and I re-collar her and lead her out to the play area. I make her keep her eyes closed, and chain her down, and touch her slowly all over. I talk to her and tell her what a good girl she is, and how I want her to please me. All of these are things she’s said help her get into her mindset, and they help me too. It makes me remember what it feels like to take control."

This was the first paragraph and it immediately preceded what was posted here. He did his best to get her into the proper mindset, a mindset that she wanted to be in (so I gathered from her comments).

It's possible that he may just be a novice Dom and he just needs more practice. As I said, I've been there before so I believe I know what he's feeling.

I think we can all agree, though, that he did the right thing by stopping the scene. I don't know the guy, but from what I have read, he doesn't strike me as an idiot. He is struggling with his needs/wants as a Dominant and as Master to the woman that he loves.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Path to Reaction - 5/7/2006 10:22:36 PM   
ArchangelMichael


Posts: 243
Joined: 8/21/2004
From: New Orleans, LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArchangelMichael
Many people seemed to assume they hadn't been together that long and didn't really know each other.



Which speaks exactly to a previous post which suggested he wasn't really in tune with her.


It is possible to sometimes not be in tune with a long-term partner in a D/s or S&M sense if you haven't had that dynamic for a while. No one is perfect. It was a bad scene and it alarmed him. I think the fact that he cared enough to seek advice on this issue speaks volumes.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 20
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