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Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 10:16:01 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		How long have we been there now? So far it's been a protracted war of dubious value which has cost the taxpayers.....how much so far?
If you're going to go after the taliban and al qeada is the best way to do it putting large numbers of Troops in plain view to act as targets?
That's all Washington seems to know, large deployments of Troops. Carrier battle groups, Army and Marine Divisions, Flights of planes.
They're using the wrong tactics.
We'd have much better results using chemical and biological weapons, find their water supplies and poison them, assasins, bounty hunters ,spies, poison gas, subterfuge, that way they don't know where and when it's comming from like they do with large concentrations of Troops. You can see the dust for miles. "Like going hunting with a Frenchman playing an accordian."
How much longer is it going to be neccessary to have large numbers of Troops there? We've had Troops in S. Korea for 60 some odd years now! Is there even any mention of bringing (them) home now that S. Korea has been fully capable of protecting themselves for decades?
And what about all the Troops in Germany and England?
We can already see the U.S. govt. covering up the facts about Libya. "Regime change, no regime change." "The U.S. .....no "NATO".
How about some transparancy on Afganistan?
They can make all the "cuts" they want in D.C. but until we get out of these "perpetual wars" it's all for naught.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 10:19:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		NBC?

At the very least, American noblesse oblige should say, look---we don't do that kinda shit here, and there should be unanimous lese majeste at these affronts, goddammit we are built on freedom of alot more than some ragged idealism I would like to think.



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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 10:49:50 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Ron, dead is dead.
Like Termy said the other day in that "favorite t.v. lines" thread about Archie Bunker and Gloria arguing about guns; "Would you feel better little girl if they was pushed out of windows?"
If al qeada had access to such weapons do you think for one nano-second that they'd hesitate to use them in downtown Minneapolis/ St. Paul?
That's the mistake that "reasonable" people always make, they assume that the enemy is (also) reasonable!
I mean, "we" wouldn't crash fully loaded airliners into buildings, would we?
Would you rather see Bin Laden take a quick, painless bullet to the head or choke to death on sarin gas for a half hour in spasm, blood pouring out of every orrafice?
(Guess what my answer would be?)
I don't remember anyone saying we should be "humane" to Bin Laden or al queda. Well, maybe Oblunder, he'd want a "trial" in NYC or Washington! "O.K. all you fuckin' Somalian Pirates are remanded to the custody of the Sherrif! "Next?"

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 10:51:18 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		If al qeada had access to such weapons do you think for one nano-second that they'd hesitate to use them in downtown Minneapolis/ St. Paul?

Yes.

Well, maybe Oblunder, he'd want a "trial" in NYC or Washington! "O.K. all you fuckin' Somalian Pirates are remanded to the custody of the Sherrif! "Next?"

They're dead to a man.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 10:52:32 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		See,.....you're a "reasonable" man.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 12:03:14 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ron, dead is dead.
Like Termy said the other day in that "favorite t.v. lines" thread about Archie Bunker and Gloria arguing about guns; "Would you feel better little girl if they was pushed out of windows?"
If al qeada had access to such weapons do you think for one nano-second that they'd hesitate to use them in downtown Minneapolis/ St. Paul?
That's the mistake that "reasonable" people always make, they assume that the enemy is (also) reasonable!
I mean, "we" wouldn't crash fully loaded airliners into buildings, would we?
Would you rather see Bin Laden take a quick, painless bullet to the head or choke to death on sarin gas for a half hour in spasm, blood pouring out of every orrafice?
(Guess what my answer would be?)
I don't remember anyone saying we should be "humane" to Bin Laden or al queda. Well, maybe Oblunder, he'd want a "trial" in NYC or Washington! "O.K. all you fuckin' Somalian Pirates are remanded to the custody of the Sherrif! "Next?"


So....on one hand you are denouncing Obama's escalation in Afghanistan while on the other hand saying we should be tougher against Al-Qaeda and the organizations that support them.

Did someone say Taliban?

So I guess we can sum this up by you being opposed to anything Obama does.

Even if you contradict yourself by agreeing with it.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 4/1/2011 12:13:24 PM >

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 12:50:50 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

....We'd have much better results using chemical and biological weapons, find their water supplies and poison them, ...... poison gas, subterfuge, that way they don't know where and when it's comming from like they do with large concentrations of Troops. ....


Popeye you have GOT TO be kidding.

We have posts around the world for a reason, the quicker to deploy as needed.

I won't argue it's time to leave Afghanistan but I DO believe Powell, If you break it, you bought it.

It was all well and good to arm the mujahadeen against those pinko commies. Then we abandoned then to the tender mercies of the Taliban. There should have been a Marshall Plan for Afg. 40 years ago. Funny how the dominoes keep falling.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 12:55:52 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

...Well, maybe Oblunder, he'd want a "trial" in NYC or Washington! "O.K. all you fuckin' Somalian Pirates are remanded to the custody of the Sherrif! "Next?"

They're dead to a man.



Which is really ironic considering what started the boom in Somali piracy.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_3608266/tm.htm


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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 12:58:24 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

....We'd have much better results using chemical and biological weapons, find their water supplies and poison them, ...... poison gas, subterfuge, that way they don't know where and when it's comming from like they do with large concentrations of Troops. ....


Popeye you have GOT TO be kidding.

We have posts around the world for a reason, the quicker to deploy as needed.

I won't argue it's time to leave Afghanistan but I DO believe Powell, If you break it, you bought it.

It was all well and good to arm the mujahadeen against those pinko commies. Then we abandoned then to the tender mercies of the Taliban. There should have been a Marshall Plan for Afg. 40 years ago. Funny how the dominoes keep falling.


The Mujaheddin are the Taliban.

Always were, just a different name.

So as this country continues to do, we support those who eventually become our enemies.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 1:00:40 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Actually, the Taliban are a lot more Pakistani than the Mujahadeen were: they had an influx of psychopaths who thought that Pakistan wasn't pursuing the jihad zealously enough and wanted to get out of a country where they couldn't stone women to death with impunity after the soviet withdrawal.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 1:04:02 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

....We'd have much better results using chemical and biological weapons, find their water supplies and poison them, ...... poison gas, subterfuge, that way they don't know where and when it's comming from like they do with large concentrations of Troops. ....


Popeye you have GOT TO be kidding.

We have posts around the world for a reason, the quicker to deploy as needed.

I won't argue it's time to leave Afghanistan but I DO believe Powell, If you break it, you bought it.

It was all well and good to arm the mujahadeen against those pinko commies. Then we abandoned then to the tender mercies of the Taliban. There should have been a Marshall Plan for Afg. 40 years ago. Funny how the dominoes keep falling.


The Mujaheddin are the Taliban.

Always were, just a different name.

So as this country continues to do, we support those who eventually become our enemies.


Not necessarily. Afghanis condsider only the people who fought the Soviets mujahadeen. Not all Mujahadeen (nationalists) are Talibs (fundamentalists) and vice versa. They are definitely two separate factions.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 2:05:19 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

....We'd have much better results using chemical and biological weapons, find their water supplies and poison them, ...... poison gas, subterfuge, that way they don't know where and when it's comming from like they do with large concentrations of Troops. ....


Popeye you have GOT TO be kidding.

We have posts around the world for a reason, the quicker to deploy as needed.

I won't argue it's time to leave Afghanistan but I DO believe Powell, If you break it, you bought it.

It was all well and good to arm the mujahadeen against those pinko commies. Then we abandoned then to the tender mercies of the Taliban. There should have been a Marshall Plan for Afg. 40 years ago. Funny how the dominoes keep falling.



Hlen, that's not quite true what Powell sad, what REALLY happens is, THEY break it,.....the Taxpayers buy it.
None of the people I know around the country want *perpetual war.* How about you?

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 2:22:58 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

popeye
We'd have much better results using chemical and biological weapons, find their water supplies and poison them, assasins, bounty hunters ,spies, poison gas, subterfuge, that way they don't know where and when it's comming from like they do with large concentrations of Troops.

quote:

popeye

The Mujaheddin are the Taliban.

Always were, just a different name.

So as this country continues to do, we support those who eventually become our enemies.



Now there's a foreign policy designed to win friends and influence people. A judicious mix of genocide, war crimes and indiscriminate collateral damage is such an attractive mix, guaranteed to produce results (of a sort).

If you are going to pursue this, pops, it might just be an idea to know who your enemy is before you set off on your rampage to destroy the world in order to save it.

Afghanistan 101:
The Muhjadeen and the Taliban are two different things pops. The Mujhadeen ("holy warriors") were the Afghani resistance to the Russians, of whom the Taliban were one participating group. After the Russians left, the Muhjadeen split into warring factions and the Taliban emerged as the dominant one.

The Taliban were a combination of ethnic Pushtun tribesmen, Al Quada, religious fanatics, Pakistani and Arab volunteers organised and backed by Pakistani Intelligence (the ISI). The Taliban never succeeded in conquering all of Afghanistan (remember the Northern Alliance?) and is hated by Hazaras, Uzbeks Tadjiks and other minorities.

I suspect that's as much as a blood thirsty mind can absorb at a single sitting. The idea is: If you are going to poison wells, slaughter entire populations and blast every living thing to Kingdom Come, it's a good idea to know who your friends and enemies are before you start.

Otherwise there wont be anyone left to share the spoils of victory with will there? And it would be a bit silly to go to all that trouble if there are no winners left at the end wouldn't it? Didn't think of that before did we pops?

Or perhaps it appeals to you just for the sheer murderous hell of it.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 2:30:52 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Tweak, c'mon, .....you want to say it don't you?
Go ahead, get it out of your system.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 2:46:54 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Tweak, c'mon, .....you want to say it don't you?
Go ahead, get it out of your system.

Do you know what would make me really happy pops?

If you learnt a few basic facts about the big bad world.

That would make me really really happy. Do it for me hun. Please.

You might just find you don't have to kill half the world in order to save it!

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 3:01:57 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Tweak, c'mon, .....you want to say it don't you?
Go ahead, get it out of your system.

Do you know what would make me really happy pops?

If you learnt a few basic facts about the big bad world.

That would make me really really happy. Do it for me hun. Please.

You might just find you don't have to kill half the world in order to save it!



"But,.....but,.....but,.....we're,.....***BETTER*** than them!"




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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 8:47:03 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

If you break it, you bought it.




I don't know that this rule applies to Afghanistan, Hlen. It was pretty broken to begin with. I think we should be the hell out of there last week.

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 8:56:36 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I’m mad…and when I’m mad I don’t think right…but the hell with them…I say get out…let them survive on their own and if they harbor terrorists again bomb them to hell.

Why am I mad? Well the assholes just killed 7 UN workers and 5 others because that dingbat in Florida burned the Quran...wish I could tie him up and send him to hell too.

That hell hole is not worth one more American life.

Butch

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 9:05:08 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		That wil 'o' the wisp; The Base, I don't believe those that seek it will ever find it, sure a bunch of militants bent on scrapping perhaps, but the core, no chance, as it will fade into the background from whence it came and reappear again when it suits it's need.

In which case, is it an organisation or an idea, but most probably a sleeper cell.

Now why are our countrymen still fighting in Afghanistan, what's the current reason for being there, I forget, for it seems to change so often.

Yes transparency would be good, as those that advocate the action are dwindling in numbers as the body bags come back.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: Time to get out of Afganistan. - 4/1/2011 9:07:08 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I’m mad…and when I’m mad I don’t think right…but the hell with them…I say get out…let them survive on their own and if they harbor terrorists again bomb them to hell.

Why am I mad? Well the assholes just killed 7 UN workers and 5 others because that dingbat in Florida burned the Quran...wish I could tie him up and send him to hell too.

That hell hole is not worth one more American life.

Butch


Ooo, perhaps a fitting position for him, padre to the armed forces at the battlefront.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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