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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 8:17:22 AM

kittensmailbox

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... Very, very nicely said ownedgirlie

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 8:23:57 AM

ownedgirlie

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Thank you. And I do urge you to look up that other thread - I believe it fizzled out about 3 weeks ago, but all the questions you asked were posed there. The thread was about 10 pages long.

In fact, here it is: http://www.collarchat.com/m_305935/mpage_1/key_limits/tm.htm

Happy reading!

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 8:58:00 AM

aslv2serveU

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your words ring true

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 9:38:27 AM

Najakcharmer

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I think what most people mean when they say they want to be or to have a "no limits" slave is that once the slave absolutely knows and trusts their owner to make only good and responsible decisions about their welfare, all those decisions are turned over to the owner. An owner who loves and cherishes their slave will, obviously, not allow a situation where they are at unacceptable risk of being really harmed or damaged.

I want a "no limits" slave who trusts me that much. The corrollary to that is that anyone in a long term D/s relationship with me will know me well enough to realize I have my own set of ethical hard limits. So submitting to me as a "no limits" slave is pretty darn safe, as there is no way that I would ever allow a slave of mine to be in a situation where they would be truly harmed or ethically compromised. I enjoy the psychological kick of having that level of total ownership and trust in my ethics and safety standards. If for some reason I changed drastically enough on a core level that I was no longer ethical and responsible enough to have those standards, I would no longer be the person that he originally submitted to. I'd expect that would destroy the "no limits" trust level as well as the relationship.

Now somebody who claims to be a "no limits" slave to a dominant who is irresponsible, unethical or just plain inexperienced in combination with being overly willing to play on the edge, that could run into real trouble in very short order.

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 9:40:12 AM

LadyHugs

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Dear kittensmailbox, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I'm rather new to these forums, so--had to pop in and read this thread on "No Limits" type slaves.

I do get a good giggle, when I mention Barney and Friend's song, Pee Wee Herman, Teletubbies whimpers and whines. That usually gets a "RED" on masochist and, I find it works on no limit slaves as well.

Everybody has limits though. It is just a matter of finding them.

The scene does offer many levels of knowledge, experiences and skills. So, if some are exposed to extremely passive play, I can understand the thought, that if that is all there is to it, I haven't found a limit yet.

I chanced years ago, to be invited to the Norfolk area to play with a no limits slave. The lass swore that she was indeed a heavy masochist. In short, I was in the warm up phase when the lass called "yellow." I was only using hands, textures and scents--had not even started using floggers, quirts, canes, single tails and such. The lass had nothing what I would call heavy play however, she never had met a limit with those she played with. Yet, nobody had ever done mind scenes with her. The poor lass confused bunny fur with a grooming mit, oranges were apple scents to her, etc.--had her mind totally tipped. I enjoyed it indeed, no heavy pain required to reach a no limit slave's limits.

So, the summary is--one's limits are only as good as the first hand experiences and the more variety of those experiences often helps find those limits. And, so many times limits are never explored, as they are not considered.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 9:49:08 AM

mixielicous

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

I think what most people mean when they say they want to be or to have a "no limits" slave is that once the slave absolutely knows and trusts their owner to make only good and responsible decisions about their welfare, all those decisions are turned over to the owner. An owner who loves and cherishes their slave will, obviously, not allow a situation where they are at unacceptable risk of being really harmed or damaged.

this is why i consider myself no limits. i know, what He will and [cant] ask me to do. and i know as my master/lover/fiance He would never ask anything i would not be able to accomplish.

one afternoon, He asks, "would you help me kill my roomate" without hesitation, of course i replied "Yes" because i trust Him with my welfare. i know though, He wouldnt do such a thing.

i would endure everything with him, but that is because of trust, and trust alone. i would not be 'no limits' for any ol Dom.

edited to add: cant, not as in legal terms etc, but in mental unability to ask me to preform such a task.

< Message edited by mixielicous -- 5/8/2006 9:50:13 AM >

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 10:04:29 AM

Jane2376

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I think that there are two seperate types of 'no limit slaves' , the ones that have a dom that they trust implicitly with thier very life, and would do anything for them, knowing that they would never ask anything totally outragous. I would consider myself in that category. Then you have slaves that are looking for doms / dommes and state they are no limit slaves, I would generally agree with other posters that this is a mis-statement. Most of these people are either misinformed or totally out of touch with themsleves, and that, in my opinion is a dangerous type of sub. Subs are trusted to let their tops know when something is wrong, and if you can't to that I don't see how a top could really trust in you as a sub.

Just my two cents,
Jane

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 11:53:36 AM

openmindedslave

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I have another view of "no limt slaves". Why would any one want one? hear me out first.The idea clearly suggest that there is no limits to what they will endure to serve. No matter what you come across to do with them?

But is there not a bond you can have with a slave that you can bring you closer because you pushed their limit.Aren't there stories to share here about connecting with someone who took a limit that the slave preceived was as far as they could go and some how , with the right person, were able to expand their horizons. And after all said and done, did that not bring a connection with each other. The simple idea of never having a limit as a slave may sound wounderful for pain play or other forms of humilation, but from the slaves side , it just sounds like a void inside that you will never satisfy..

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 1:12:00 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

i was speaking with my former Master about a few post that read "no limit"... He said there was no such thing as a no limit slave and to prove His point, He said i should post a few questions and see how far no limit really means...

Would you murder a child if your Master told you too?

Would you go to jail for your Master?

Steal for your Master?

Kill for him/her?

Kill yourself if told to?

my point is that everyone has a limit and i was bord this morning.... Still something to think about

This thread never ceases to amaze me. It's always directed at 'no limits' slaves when, in reality, the proper question is are there any No Limit Masters who would require these proofs of loyalty. I believe there are no limits Masters as well. Pick anything you can think of and do you envision it's at least 'possible' someone will do it? If at least one person on the planet will engage in any given activity, how can there NOT be such a thing as a slave with no limits? Are there people who will ingest fecal matter? Yes, of course. Are there people who will amputate their own limbs? Yes, there was just a documentary on that very subject about a week ago. We want to embrace boundaries so we feel safe and secure, but there are those out there who do not embrace boundaries of any sort. The outrageous happens and it happens all the time. I say with some assurance, that these proofs of loyalty to satisfy some sense of righteous indignation are not going to come to pass. Slaves who hold themselves as 'no limits' are extremely valuable to their owners and it generally takes several years to get to the point where nothing matters but what Master has commanded of you. Such Masters did not need these proofs to know their slaves live and die by their word alone and a dead slave can't follow commands very well.

No limits slave.. there is simply nothing on Earth which I am capable of doing which I would not do for Master. If you want to know if there are boundaries to that, you would need to ask him specifically what he requires of me. I've asked him if there are things he ever or would ever require of me that he feels I will not do and as he can't think of a single one, I seriously doubt anyone else can either. You see, HE has limits and that is the important distinction here.
So, once again, perhaps the vast majority of slaves have limits. There are 6+ billion people on this planet though.. and there is little of 'always and never' to be found. To say there is 'no such thing as a no limits slave' means one speaks for every single one of the 6+ billion people on this planet. To answer all the questions above, you don't seriously think that there are people who are not only willing to do those things and more but, in fact, have actually done them? They are in the news after all. Several of them drove planes into the World Trade center. The depths of goodness run parallel to the depths of evil in this world. To think otherwise is naive.

Celeste

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 1:41:06 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: openmindedslave

I have another view of "no limt slaves". Why would any one want one? hear me out first.The idea clearly suggest that there is no limits to what they will endure to serve. No matter what you come across to do with them?

But is there not a bond you can have with a slave that you can bring you closer because you pushed their limit.Aren't there stories to share here about connecting with someone who took a limit that the slave preceived was as far as they could go and some how , with the right person, were able to expand their horizons. And after all said and done, did that not bring a connection with each other. The simple idea of never having a limit as a slave may sound wounderful for pain play or other forms of humilation, but from the slaves side , it just sounds like a void inside that you will never satisfy..

I think this fails to take into consideration that one can be no limits, but still have limited capabilities which can be expanded. As an example, before I met Himself, I knew nothing of cigars. He has taught me how to choose one, how to take care of a humidor, the difference in circumference/length etc. He has expanded my capability to make me better able to serve him. I have learned how to make his favorite food dishes, a cuisine with which I was completely unfamiliar before I met him. There is not a void here because there are so many things which I am incapable of doing until taught and he teaches me those things or has me learn them so I am better able to serve him as he desires.

Celeste

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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/8/2006 10:20:50 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

i was speaking with my former Master about a few post that read "no limit"... He said there was no such thing as a no limit slave and to prove His point, He said i should post a few questions and see how far no limit really means...

Would you murder a child if your Master told you too?

Would you go to jail for your Master?

Steal for your Master?

Kill for him/her?

Kill yourself if told to?

my point is that everyone has a limit and i was bord this morning.... Still something to think about

This thread never ceases to amaze me. It's always directed at 'no limits' slaves when, in reality, the proper question is are there any No Limit Masters who would require these proofs of loyalty. I believe there are no limits Masters as well. Pick anything you can think of and do you envision it's at least 'possible' someone will do it? If at least one person on the planet will engage in any given activity, how can there NOT be such a thing as a slave with no limits? Are there people who will ingest fecal matter? Yes, of course. Are there people who will amputate their own limbs? Yes, there was just a documentary on that very subject about a week ago. We want to embrace boundaries so we feel safe and secure, but there are those out there who do not embrace boundaries of any sort. The outrageous happens and it happens all the time. I say with some assurance, that these proofs of loyalty to satisfy some sense of righteous indignation are not going to come to pass. Slaves who hold themselves as 'no limits' are extremely valuable to their owners and it generally takes several years to get to the point where nothing matters but what Master has commanded of you. Such Masters did not need these proofs to know their slaves live and die by their word alone and a dead slave can't follow commands very well.

No limits slave.. there is simply nothing on Earth which I am capable of doing which I would not do for Master. If you want to know if there are boundaries to that, you would need to ask him specifically what he requires of me. I've asked him if there are things he ever or would ever require of me that he feels I will not do and as he can't think of a single one, I seriously doubt anyone else can either. You see, HE has limits and that is the important distinction here.
So, once again, perhaps the vast majority of slaves have limits. There are 6+ billion people on this planet though.. and there is little of 'always and never' to be found. To say there is 'no such thing as a no limits slave' means one speaks for every single one of the 6+ billion people on this planet. To answer all the questions above, you don't seriously think that there are people who are not only willing to do those things and more but, in fact, have actually done them? They are in the news after all. Several of them drove planes into the World Trade center. The depths of goodness run parallel to the depths of evil in this world. To think otherwise is naive.

Celeste

I don't think this could have possibly been said better. Wonderfully put.

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/9/2006 12:44:15 AM

DsBound

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jane2376

I think that there are two seperate types of 'no limit slaves' , the ones that have a dom that they trust implicitly with thier very life, and would do anything for them, knowing that they would never ask anything totally outragous. I would consider myself in that category. Then you have slaves that are looking for doms / dommes and state they are no limit slaves, I would generally agree with other posters that this is a mis-statement. Most of these people are either misinformed or totally out of touch with themsleves, and that, in my opinion is a dangerous type of sub. Subs are trusted to let their tops know when something is wrong, and if you can't to that I don't see how a top could really trust in you as a sub.

Just my two cents,
Jane

I think Jane hit the nail on the head... it's one thing for a sub/slave to have "no limits" with a trusted Master in a developed relationship. It's quite another for a single sub to make that claim. Whatever my Master's limits are... well then, they are mine too. Again, it's because we're in an established relationship built on great communication, trust, yadda, yadda, yadda. I have "no limits" in regards to our M/s relationship, therefore I am a no limit slave to Him. Certainly that is not something that was used to attract any and all when we first met... it's something that developed over time.

I think far too many subs post that they have no limits... as a way to propagate responses, thus ill informed, possibly naive and could get seriously hurt, mentally or phyiscally. It's just as important for a sub to find out what a potential Master's limits are... as it is for her to know what her limits, needs, wants and desires are.

Laura

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/9/2006 10:12:21 PM

kittensmailbox

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subrob1967, hi sweetie, again i will ask, could you or would you kindly send to me a copy of the SSC guidelines... Of course you are welcome to post here, however sometimes i do not tend to make it make to threads as much as i would like.... Please feel free to send it to me on my profile.... ONLY if you wish to, of course....

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/9/2006 10:27:36 PM

Lordandmaster

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I'm always stunned by people who think they know what's true of "everybody."

This is approximately the point where someone brings up chainsaws again. Funny how this topic always seems to be revisited by people who are out to prove that no-limits slaves are some kind of figment or dangerous fraud. Yawn. What a tiresome, tiresome subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Everybody has limits though. It is just a matter of finding them.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 5/9/2006 10:30:26 PM >

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/10/2006 12:18:05 AM

HarryVanWinkle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I assume when someone claims to have no limits, it's within the SSC guidelines, and take them at their word. What you're talking about is not SSC, and not realistic.

And there are those who will say, myself among them, that SSC is not realistic.

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/10/2006 12:19:11 AM

HarryVanWinkle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: merrymasochist

I think a "no limits" condition can exist, but only with another who's likes and dislikes match, as well as sharing a same morals and values. It's something that can only be built with time, trust and utterly honest communication. To me, it's an ideal to be worked towards and the best of rewards with the right person. As for those who expect or offer no limits from the git-go, unfortunately, reality can be a harsh teacher.

Sincerely,
merry

I agree with merry.

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/10/2006 1:09:19 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

And there are those who will say, myself among them, that SSC is not realistic.

You know, I used to embrace SSC until I did a blood letting demo and someone pointed out to me .. let me see if I can remember exactly what they said here..

"You play with knives! You cut people just to watch them bleed. How sane is that?" .. and I couldn't argue the point.

So now I go with 'mostly consensual' as my mantra and leave it at that.

Yeah, yeah.. hard limits.. doesn't mean I can't 'try' to talk someone out of it.

Since I've succeeded a few times to the fun amazement of the vic.. um.. subjects, it's all good.

Celeste

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/10/2006 1:28:11 AM

allspicey

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I think what MasterRobert1 said is the heart of this issue. He said "I am a Dom and I have limits." Whether or not a slave has limits, a dominant usually does. A wise slave aligns his or herself with a dominant whose moral limits are similar to what a slave would wish to live.

Having said this, much of the Master/slave relationship is mental and emotional conditioning of a slave to serve without limitation...eg, to serve Master in whatever way, at whatever time that Master choses that service. As a lifestyle slave, no, I am often not happy or comfortable with what I am asked to do. A wise Master helps to condition the mental framework of a slave to be happy in the fact that he/she is able to overcome that barrier of discomfort to fulfill the desire of the Master.

Can people be conditioned to do the extreme things asked about in this post? Absolutely. It happens often in the world. Are there children in other countries who believe it is an honour to blow themselves up for the good of their "cause"? Is every person who commits an atrocity in war an evil, deranged or sick person? Or have they been convinced that what they did was right, was for a just cause, was good because it was what the mother country needed from them...it was their service to a larger duty.

Limits can be overcome with conditioning. Very few limits can't be overcome. The no limits slave is not saying they wish to do to these things or they might not have deep moral objections to such things. What they are saying is that they agree to conditioning from their Master to overcome inhibitions that might keep them from serving as fully as a Master or Mistress might wish. There can come a point at which they cannot break free from this conditioning and it can be used for things that a slave, on his/her own, might never consider.

Behavior modification is a stock standard tool in a Master/slave relationship. In healthy relationships, it is used to enhance and better the lives of both. But it can be used for other purposes. That is simple reality. A no limits slave is saying that they are more susceptable to this kind of manipulation than perhaps the general populace. The mindset of service can be so deep it can, and often does, override any natural limitation on behaviour a slave might have.

If you are not my Master, I have many limits. But within the M/s relationship, limits are simply barriers to be overcome in the course of my service to my Master. I trust, instead, to his own internal limits, that he will not take us somewhere we shouldn't go. In the course of serving him, there are times my personal judgement must be suspended in order to serve the way he wishes. This is the way we live and for us, it works and it is good.

allspice{T}

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/10/2006 6:06:31 AM

painslave97

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while this slave can understand & appreciate all of the posts it has read on this thread, it has been refered to & considers itself a 'no limits slave'. Masters wishes & needs are all it lives for & it will do whatever Master says. anything, anywhere anytime, no limits; is one lesson/mantra Master reminds it often.
in a perfect world this slave would not have to do anything illegal, but this world isn't perfect & if Master wishes/needs slave to do something it will do it's best to achieve Masters approval & it will do it happily & it will suffer happily if it fails.
painslave97
{great minds think for themselves}

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RE: No limit slaves... - 5/10/2006 11:41:39 AM

VvShadowspawnvV

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Of course, my test would be... would you clean my entire house, cook dinner and massage my feet and do it all fully clothed with a smile on your face and no expectations in your heart? That seems to work great. That's where I find the limits they claim not to have.

Jewel

Hey! You just described most of my day! =)

becca

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