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Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 8:54:26 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		It was rather amusing last winter, for the diminishing number of people still paying attention, to watch the global warming cultists account for all the snow, and explain that it was a perfectly reasonable result that fit right in with all the models they had been selling, but nobody had noticed it was there.

Just for the sake of argument, let's give them the benefit of the doubt on that. With such a recent lesson in unanticipated consequences, and a testament to the ability of "the top experts" to miss something staring them in the face from their own calculations, how do these guys keep a straight face when they request funding to attend the conference?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110403/ap_on_hi_te/eu_the_sunshade_option

quote:

Scientists of earth, sea and sky, scholars of law, politics and philosophy: In three intense days cloistered behind Chicheley Hall's old brick walls, four dozen thinkers pondered the planet's fate as it grows warmer, weighed the idea of reflecting the sun to cool the atmosphere and debated the question of who would make the decision to interfere with nature to try to save the planet.


Geoengineering possibilities noted in the article:

quote:

Blanketing deserts with a reflective material
Launching giant mirrors into space orbit
fertilizing the ocean with iron to grow CO2-eating plankton
brightening ocean clouds with sea-salt particles to reflect the sun
feeding sulfates into the atmosphere via a kilometers-long (miles-long) hose attached to a tethered balloon

And my vote getter for the best quote
quote:

"I'm queasy about some billionaire with a messiah complex having a major role in geoengineering research,"


Your thoughts?

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 9:06:25 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I am far from an expert, but what I have heard is that the proper term should be "climate change", not global warming, and that the weather patterns are becoming more erratic over time due to manmade influences.  I'm not sure I agree, but I have to say that the weather has grown increasingly odd, with more extremes, both hot and cold, than I would expect.

Bottom line: the changes are unpredictable.  So any actions based on predictions of weather will likely be no more than a waste of money.

That said, if you ignore the whole global warming hoopla, the idea of encouraging CO2 eating stuff sounds cool.  Obviously, with human activities of deforestation, followed by increasing meat animal production, it might become necessary in the future to encourage some form of plant growth.  I'd prefer to see if nature corrects the situation first, though.


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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 10:00:34 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I have said for more than a decade that the only thing necessary to "cool the planet" was to mandate white roofs. I was roundly belittled until a top 0bama0 official said the same thing.
Then he was roundly belittled
The reason, it is clear to me, is that AGW/climate change is not a science to many of its strongest proponent but a religion, with its roots in simple hatred of mankind.

Giant mirrors in space has been proposed since... maybe the 40s? (Hell maybe since Galileo). It was a favorite for science fiction writers. But we shouldn't simply reflect it away when we can change it to microwave energy and beam it back to earth to be converted to electricity

There are only three reasonable cures for the ills caused by technology:

1. Better technology
2. Fewer humans
3. Both

We are continually and increasingly implementing #1 (I'm a recent Kurzweil enthusiast: bring on the Singularity!). I wish we could move to #3....

A Kurzweil primer. Get/read Fantastic Voyage...


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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 10:15:08 AM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		I hear the polar ice caps are good at reflecting solar energy but then who am I to 'interfere with nature'? Bank robbery is human nature so I'm sceptical if that should be interfered with either. Don't upset the natural balance of the industrial revolution and all that.

I thought the debate here had moved beyond short term weather trends. I thought all those other hours spent on threads about climate change would at least educate us all about the differences between a local cold snap and a larger 'global' picture. I'm writing off the older generation, there is no point even attempting to explain it to them as they have no stake in it. When they die we should instead of burying them just spread out their pale naked corpses across the ground to reflect the solar heat.


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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 10:21:33 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

That said, if you ignore the whole global warming hoopla, the idea of encouraging CO2 eating stuff sounds cool.  Obviously, with human activities of deforestation, followed by increasing meat animal production, it might become necessary in the future to encourage some form of plant growth.  I'd prefer to see if nature corrects the situation first, though.




Squeezing fuel for deisel engines out of algae intrigues me, Steve. Pumping up the productivity of that by feeding it an industrial by-product seems like a win-win (as soon as they find a use for the mountains of leftover bio-mass from squeezing the algae).



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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 11:52:16 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		animals can eat it. amend it into the soil.  infinity and beyond.

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 12:11:38 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Don't tell me, Ron. Tell the guys who are working on this, and accumulating big piles.


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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 12:18:56 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It was rather amusing last winter, for the diminishing number of people still paying attention, to watch the global warming cultists account for all the snow, and explain that it was a perfectly reasonable result that fit right in with all the models they had been selling, but nobody had noticed it was there.


Which was, in fact, exactly what happened. Snowy winters and unusual climatic shifts are precisely what global climate change predicts.

I don't understand why you guys keep doing this, especially someone as smart as you.  Every single time you people start up one of these "it snowed at my house today, global warming is a farce!" threads, all you're doing is pointing out that either you are completely incapable of understanding the basic high-school level science behind this issue, or that you just can't be bothered to pay attention for the 15 minutes it would take to educate yourselves. Either way, it makes you look pretty silly. But by all means, if you're proud of that and  that's the way you want to present yourselves, knock yourselves out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Don't tell me, Ron. Tell the guys who are working on this, and accumulating big piles.



Who's that? Got any specific examples?


< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 4/3/2011 12:32:15 PM >

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 12:19:20 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Is there an oil spill planned soon?  Wonder if they reconstitute like sea horses or spongebob?

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 1:36:58 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Who's that? Got any specific examples?



Does a company shipping it off to Indonesia as an animal feed ingredient work, Panda? Think about the costs of that, and the number of animals right here domestically to feed. They keep trying, but the critters seem to think it tastes like dried pond scum. We get more flakes, than we do oil, so it's a stumbling block to commercial production.
http://domesticfuel.com/2009/10/27/algae-biodiesel-by-product-to-be-sold-to-indonesia/

Somebody is going to get rich with a cost effective answer.

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 1:56:43 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Heretic, their first problem is that they associate themselves with the "U.N."
No credability there.
Secondly they seem to think that one day they'll all be sitting in offices making $150k per year of,.....the Taxpayer's money!
If they want to "study" this stuff they need to find a differant way of financing it. A cheap way.
The Taxpayers are broke. The country is broke!

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 2:05:48 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I know everyone loves a good debate/argument, but I searched on youtube to find a short clip of ice melting at the north pole and I found this instead... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYHQCCUnqlA&NR=1

George Carlin once said that man worries about climate control/global warming as if we can control it. (I know I refer to him a lot but I do like the way he plays and exaggerates on real life events).  It was his opinion that the earth was here for a very, very long time before man got here and will be around many, many years after man becomes extinct.  And man is a species, one of the many species that existed and became extinct like we eventually will become.  We think we can control any of that and we can't.   Long after we're gone the earth will still be around to have earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, plates of the earth moving around to reform the geography of the globe.  And nobody can control it.  It's nobody's fault.  It just happens.

(and just as an aside note, that isnt a youtube clip of George Carlin, but of how the sea ice is growing in Antarctica....now...or for now....or whatever!  )


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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 2:09:48 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		No we can't control geological change but with real evidence of how our societies are changing the globe, making it more inhospitable for all life, the question really is: How quickly do you want to get there?

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 4/3/2011 2:11:40 PM >

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 2:24:17 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I for one can not beleive how all of a sudden- that the climate changes.

Is there no end to this madness?

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 3:17:29 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I for one can not beleive how all of a sudden- that the climate changes.

Is there no end to this madness?




Actually, the world climate has been changing for some time.

What I find amusing, even if they are idiots, are the people who deny that it is happening.

The evidence is all too obvious. Glaciers receding all over the world, in fact some of the loss of glaciers in Glacier national park has accelerated since 1985, the melting of the Greenland Ice pack is accelerating, large chunks of the antarctic ice sheet have broken away, which has no historic precedent.

The simple fact is that there is something going on with the climate, we have just recently gone through the TEN hottest years on record.

If these idiots that are denying this would read everything, they would understand what the hell is going on.

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 4:06:20 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		JLF, the climate always has and always will "change."
I'm sure the climate was much differant from now when Pangea was in existance.
The problem is that some people want to turn that into a $gravy train$ using of course "the taxpayer's money."
It's like inventing a "problem" to....... "solve."
If there were no Taxpayer dollars involved and no possability of ever getting any do you think we'd be hearing anything about this?
Like any good detective always knows,....."follow the money!"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/3/2011 4:10:43 PM >

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 4:18:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Isn't it amazing how completely pops and people like him have bought into the lies told by the ones who really are on the gravy train and really don't want to stop it? Why don't they follow the money behind those telling them the stuff they believe? Others have and it all leads back to outfits like the API and Exxon.

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 4:52:07 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

JLF, the climate always has and always will "change."
I'm sure the climate was much differant from now when Pangea was in existance.
The problem is that some people want to turn that into a $gravy train$ using of course "the taxpayer's money."
It's like inventing a "problem" to....... "solve."
If there were no Taxpayer dollars involved and no possability of ever getting any do you think we'd be hearing anything about this?
Like any good detective always knows,....."follow the money!"



Lets look at a few facts, one there is no taxpayer money being used to "solve" the problem.

Two, the only scientists who disagree with the theory is the few that get a lot of grants from various industrial firms who would be hurt if anti-pollution measures are passed.

Three, stopping pollution of the air and water is a good idea. I mean, look at the air in LA, it is BROWN, and not from fucking dust. It is air pollution.

Since fossil fuels are running out, with the exception of coal, it would be a good idea to look for something else.

Carbon neutral fuels are available and have been for years. In fact the Diesel engine was designed to run on vegetable oil, look it up.

Considering the fact that alternative fuel engines have been available, the hydrogen peroxide burning turbine has been around since world war two. Funny thing about burning hydrogen peroxide, you end up with water and oxygen.

The human race has turned this planet into a garbage dump. Why not research the thousands of square miles of oceans that have garbage floating on it. Here, I will help you.
Great Pacific Garbage Patch

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 4:55:43 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		As long as the meterologists cannot say for certain what will happen from day to day regards the weather, I have a lot of trouble believing in climate models, bearing in mind the base line used.

We do not know the history of this world, sure, we can get an idea from such sciences as dendrochronology and core samples taken in various parts of the world, but what does that show, anything other than the fact that the climate changes as it does in accordance with the nature of the planet.

As to man's influence sure I agree our need/greed for resources has perhaps created problems that cannot be corrected in our species lifespan, but who said our lifespan will prevail, we weren't here from year dot, maybe we won't be here at the full stop.

But the success of humanity is that we have learned to adapt to our enviroment, so if the world warms or cools, we will adapt and that is that.

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RE: Meeting of the Mad Scientists - 4/3/2011 4:58:52 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Isn't it amazing how completely pops and people like him have bought into the lies told by the ones who really are on the gravy train and really don't want to stop it? Why don't they follow the money behind those telling them the stuff they believe? Others have and it all leads back to outfits like the API and Exxon.



DomKen, when they come out and sign a pledge and say they won't accept nor ask for one thin dime of the Taxpayer's money maybe some people will listen to them.
Look at Algore, he made what, $100 million off *his* scam and now he's off enjoying his 100 ft yacht and mansion on the Calif. coast. The guy went to "Divinity school", he knows all about "sheering the flock."

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