RE: The Bear is dead.

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/15/2011 5:49:15 AM

farglebargle

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As we've seen from the subsequent incarnations, Garcia LEAD that band, and everyone else could have likely been replaced without screwing up the magic.

After all, who didn't have just as much fun at a Jerry Band show?

That said, a good introduction to Haynes' non-ABB work would be the 2002ish incarnation of Phil & Friends ( Lesh, Haynes, Herring, Barracco, and Molo )

e.g.: GOTV 2002 http://www.archive.org/details/2002-07-06.paf.sbd.unknown.11549.sbeok.flacf

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/15/2011 5:59:00 AM

Moonhead

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True enough, but it isn't like nobody else was bringing anything to the party. If it had been all Garcia, they'd have likely sounded a lot rootsier and folksier (in the manner of the JGB). Nothing wrong with that, and I like bluegrass fine, but a lot of the stuff other members came out with was great stuff as well. Lesh getting Constanten in to play fancier keyboard parts than Pigpen was up to was just the first example that sprang to mind: even Weir and his self righteous oaf of a sidekick had a few good songs...

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/15/2011 6:56:27 AM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

As we've seen from the subsequent incarnations, Garcia LEAD that band, and everyone else could have likely been replaced without screwing up the magic.

After all, who didn't have just as much fun at a Jerry Band show?

Me.
1-The Dead were Garcia's band, listen to the differences between the 70's shows and the late 80's shows and it's obvious as the band try to cover for Jerry's decline.
2-Hell, I wanted Bobby outta the band and I was only a fan. If I was a bandmate and had to put up with his Bobbyisms and his (for years) piss poor playing, I would have wanted to kill him. (In fairness, I've been told he had a real real bad trip around 69 and didn't totally recover from it till about 73 or 74)
3-JGB may have been more talented, and they were, at least in the later days, far more consistent, but there never was, nor ever will be, anything like a Grateful Dead show when the band was on, the audience was grooving, and the synergy was liquid.
Simply put, the Grateful Dead were not only the best concert I ever saw, they also put on the worst

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/15/2011 11:30:19 PM

SternSkipper

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God I went to edit this and fucked it all up... Sorry I think I had something to say, which is now lost
Woops sorry

< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 5/16/2011 12:11:14 AM >

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/15/2011 11:56:40 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

Fair enough. That said, apart from John Perry Barlow, didn't most of the band want to get rid of Weir until he started to improve his chops a bit later? As you say though, there were calls to get rid of Lesh at times as well. (Which I'm not sure about: Tom Constanten's presence on Aoxomoxoa might not have suited the roots rockers, but that harpsichord part pretty much makes Mountains Of The Moon, doesn't it?)

Mountains of the Moon was Phil's Victim or the Crime IMHO

As to member's wanting him out, I remember Phil bitching about him and he and Mickey were frequently less than nice to each other back stage. Bill Kreutzmann is a living breathing SAINT he loved everyone in the entire family from what I could tell. And of those years anyway, all I know of Jerry's feelings about Bobby was that he is on record as truly liking his interesting rhythm and that because of the size of his hands he could do chords most guitarists weren't comfortable reaching for..
It always sounded to me like Jerry liked him or was cracked up by him.
There's a really good article in Guitar Player magazine where Jerry gives a very frank account of how he felt about Weir musically.

< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 5/16/2011 12:16:52 AM >

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/16/2011 12:13:22 AM

SternSkipper

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quote:

As we've seen from the subsequent incarnations, Garcia LEAD that band, and everyone else could have likely been replaced without screwing up the magic.

I'm taking this as an admission you were the dude behind pulling the trigger on all those keyboard players

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/16/2011 12:40:53 AM

SternSkipper

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quote:

e.g.: GOTV 2002 http://www.archive.org/details/2002-07-06.paf.sbd.unknown.11549.sbeok.flacf

Hahahahahah .... that was the ONLY show I ever walked off the field for in my entire life. I took my then girlfriend back to our ten and fucked her senseless for nearly 3 hours. Towards the end, we realized there was a bright light shining through our tent and about a dozen people camped across and down beam from who got themselves on great fucking puppet show.

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/16/2011 2:47:18 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Fair enough. That said, apart from John Perry Barlow, didn't most of the band want to get rid of Weir until he started to improve his chops a bit later? As you say though, there were calls to get rid of Lesh at times as well. (Which I'm not sure about: Tom Constanten's presence on Aoxomoxoa might not have suited the roots rockers, but that harpsichord part pretty much makes Mountains Of The Moon, doesn't it?)

Mountains of the Moon was Phil's Victim or the Crime IMHO

As to member's wanting him out, I remember Phil bitching about him and he and Mickey were frequently less than nice to each other back stage. Bill Kreutzmann is a living breathing SAINT he loved everyone in the entire family from what I could tell. And of those years anyway, all I know of Jerry's feelings about Bobby was that he is on record as truly liking his interesting rhythm and that because of the size of his hands he could do chords most guitarists weren't comfortable reaching for..
It always sounded to me like Jerry liked him or was cracked up by him.
There's a really good article in Guitar Player magazine where Jerry gives a very frank account of how he felt about Weir musically.

Of course, it could be that Garcia liked having Weir in the band because he knew that he wasn't any threat to his role musically? He might have felt a bit insecure with a more talented rhythm guitarist...

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/16/2011 3:24:51 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

more talented rhythm guitarist...

Boy, there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one...

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RE: The Bear is dead. - 5/16/2011 7:25:43 AM

Moonhead

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No it isn't. Angus Young is one of the best guitarists about, and he only plays rhythm.
Richard Lloyd, Keith Richards*, and quite a few rhythm as lead players (most notably Peter Buck, Arto Lindsay and Geordie out of Killing Joke) spring to mind as well...

*(Apart from the bizarre matter of the Stones replacing Mick Taylor with Ron Wood so that they didn't have a better lead guitarist than the rhythm player, of course)

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