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RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 1:08:15 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Selectivelight


Want me to spell it out for you? Fine. America's number 1 export; arrogant meddling.

If they don't agree with us and the things we do, we speak ill of them, taunt and ridicule them (France disagreeing with our post twin towers war posturing; freedom fries, a lot of racist banter and jokes, and political posturing that didn't make them change their minds. Good for you, France.)  in widely visible ways.

If they have a government we don't agree with, we want to "spread democracy", when the reality is our own government is so corrupt and crooked that the average American will never stand a chance at "the American dream".

While our own citizens go hungry, our debts go unpaid, and our social services continue to suffer rampant underfunding, (and worse, if the services are for women, the poor, or veterans.)... we continue to tax the poor, neglect the downtrodden, and then claim the moral high ground for sending care packages of grain to foreign countries. [Don't get me wrong, nice gesture and I'm glad we do it, but it's like whitewashing a tombstone. Doesn't change the rot beneath.]

While we're -still- holding prisoners without the -hope- of due process... prisoners whom we've tortured, abused, and denied basic human rights... we have the gall to tell other countries how they should treat people.

And I could continue to illustrate our hypocrisy, quite readily. So yeah, it's about time someone other than leftist blog writers came out and said it.

You want to take the moral high ground? Want to tell someone else they're wrong? Well, take the log from your own eye before pointing out the mote in your brother's.



Well again, I don't agree with our foreign involvements, but you are doing the apples to oranges thing.

China is trying to justify their crackdown on people who oppose the government.

What you are arguing is not the same thing. 

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RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 1:13:52 PM   
Edwynn


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So you didn't support the invasions. Neither did the majority of Americans. Congratulations.

Do you think the majority of Chinese are in favor of these crackdowns?

Did Chinese report mention US citizens or the initial US criticism mention Chinese citizens?

What either you or any other American or Chinese citizen thinks is not in the discussion here, so your opposition to the invasions is neither germane nor applicable.

What is being discussed are the "official statements" of two countries' governments concerning each others' actions.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/11/2011 1:18:33 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 1:28:15 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

So you didn't support the invasions. Neither did the majority of Americans. Congratulations.

Do you think the majority of Chinese are in favor of these crackdowns?

Did Chinese report mention US citizens or the initial US criticism mention Chinese citizens?

What either you or any other American or Chinese citizen thinks is not in the discussion here, so your opposition to the invasions is neither germane nor applicable.

What is being discussed are the "official statements" of two countries' governments concerning each others' actions.



What is germane here is we have a repressive government with a long history of abuses against its own people.

Can you say Tiananmen Square?

Images for tiananmen square photo 




When you see tanks rolling onto the National Mall and bloody bodies lying all over during the next Tea Party protest be sure to let me know.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 1:31:39 PM   
Edwynn


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Again, how many of the >100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths are attributable to the Chinese government?



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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 2:14:57 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		The United States criticizing China for human rights violations is somewhat like a guy who sticks up liquor stores criticizing bank robbers. The fact that bank robbery  is more serious than holding up a liquor store doesn't exactly give him any moral high ground.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 2:22:08 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

So you didn't support the invasions. Neither did the majority of Americans. Congratulations.

Do you think the majority of Chinese are in favor of these crackdowns?

Did Chinese report mention US citizens or the initial US criticism mention Chinese citizens?

What either you or any other American or Chinese citizen thinks is not in the discussion here, so your opposition to the invasions is neither germane nor applicable.

What is being discussed are the "official statements" of two countries' governments concerning each others' actions.



What is germane here is we have a repressive government with a long history of abuses against its own people.

Can you say Tiananmen Square?

Images for tiananmen square photo 




When you see tanks rolling onto the National Mall and bloody bodies lying all over during the next Tea Party protest be sure to let me know.

Now now now, rule, The Chinese assured us that Tiananmen square never happened just before we gave them "most favored nation trading status". Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, who was in the whitehouse when that happened? I forget

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 3:24:50 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Again, how many of the >100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths are attributable to the Chinese government?


And again you are making an argument that is not applicable to the discussion, unless you want to start talking about China and Tibet.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 3:52:04 PM   
Sanity


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Nearly all the deaths reported in Iraq after Iraq was liberated from the Hussein regime were due to Muslim on Muslim events, homicide bombers from the religion of peace doing what they do best.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Again, how many of the >100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths are attributable to the Chinese government?





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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 3:52:29 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

What is germane here is we have a repressive government with a long history of abuses against its own people.



And can you say Native American and Afro-Caribbean? Segregation? Or would you prefer the more South African term apartheid?

The war on terrorism and the Prevention of Terrorism Acts?

The US death penalty?

Guantanamo Bay?

And I won't even mention Bahrain and Baluchistan, because like you say, it's apples and oranges.

But then again, the US Government have shipped so many tanks to the Middle East and Afghanistan that they might struggle to find a few spare ones in Washington.

< Message edited by stellauk -- 4/11/2011 4:00:31 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 3:57:23 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

The United States criticizing China for human rights violations is somewhat like a guy who sticks up liquor stores criticizing bank robbers. The fact that bank robbery  is more serious than holding up a liquor store doesn't exactly give him any moral high ground.


This is just hilarious.

We are supposed to go to war in Iraq and Libya based on human rights violations but ignore China's long history of the same because of our economic ties to them?

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 4:08:18 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

The United States criticizing China for human rights violations is somewhat like a guy who sticks up liquor stores criticizing bank robbers. The fact that bank robbery  is more serious than holding up a liquor store doesn't exactly give him any moral high ground.


This is just hilarious.

We are supposed to go to war in Iraq and Libya based on human rights violations but ignore China's long history of the same because of our economic ties to them?



I agree. But then again how many years did you ignore those 'human rights violations' in Iraq after Saddam withdrew from Kuwait and started leaving the oil alone?

Edited to add: And what about the 'human rights violations' in Bahrain, a US ally? Or does the fact that the Saudis and UAE are supporting the crackdown in Bahrain, and they are the leading producers of oil have anything to do with it?

< Message edited by stellauk -- 4/11/2011 4:13:24 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 4:08:37 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

What is germane here is we have a repressive government with a long history of abuses against its own people.



And can you say Native American and Afro-Caribbean? Segregation? Or would you prefer the more South African term apartheid?

The war on terrorism and the Prevention of Terrorism Acts?

The US death penalty?

Guantanamo Bay?

And I won't even mention Bahrain and Baluchistan, because like you say, it's apples and oranges.


You are talking the same invalid points that have been made by others.

If you go back to the original article it was about a crackdown on political dissidents, and you are trying to agree that this is all right.

That is the issue here, not the spin that China is trying to put on it that so many seem to be agreeing with.

Western countries do not discourage political protest by imprisoning the protesters.

(in reply to stellauk)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 4:17:24 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

The United States criticizing China for human rights violations is somewhat like a guy who sticks up liquor stores criticizing bank robbers. The fact that bank robbery  is more serious than holding up a liquor store doesn't exactly give him any moral high ground.


This is just hilarious.

We are supposed to go to war in Iraq and Libya based on human rights violations but ignore China's long history of the same because of our economic ties to them?



I agree. But then again how many years did you ignore those 'human rights violations' in Iraq after Saddam withdrew from Kuwait and started leaving the oil alone?



I think you are mistaking my meaning, I haven't ever thought we should be in Iraq.

The reason I am complaining about the reactions here is because there are numerous countries with a history of abuses against their own people.

But we pick and choose which to condemn, which to invade, and which to ally ourselves with based on what benefits us economically.

(in reply to stellauk)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 4:19:11 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

The United States criticizing China for human rights violations is somewhat like a guy who sticks up liquor stores criticizing bank robbers. The fact that bank robbery  is more serious than holding up a liquor store doesn't exactly give him any moral high ground.


This is just hilarious.

We are supposed to go to war in Iraq and Libya based on human rights violations but ignore China's long history of the same because of our economic ties to them?



I have absolutely no idea what point you just made, or what it has to do with what I said.


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 4:27:01 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

You are talking the same invalid points that have been made by others.



So you don't count what happened to native Americans and racial segregation as oppression. Was there not racial segregation in the United States?

Okay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

If you go back to the original article it was about a crackdown on political dissidents, and you are trying to agree that this is all right.



Ah right, now I get you. You're talking about the persecution and oppression of right wingers.

Where have I indicated in this thread that I'm okay with the human rights abuses of China?

Do you not understand the expression pot kettle, kettle pot? How about six of one and half a dozen of the other? Does that make it any clearer for you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

That is the issue here, not the spin that China is trying to put on it that so many seem to be agreeing with.



And of course this is not taking into account your spin that everything is hunkadory and as it should be in the United States?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Western countries do not discourage political protest by imprisoning the protesters.



Kind of interesting that you focus on the oppression of right wing political dissidents but completely overlook the fact that people in the United States have, for much of its history, been oppressed for the colour of their skin.
.
And yeah, of course Western countries don't discourage political protests by imprisoning the protestors, and some of them really do have unfortunate and fatal accidents whilst in custody.

Now if you'll excuse me, I must go outside and take my pet unicorn for a walk.


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 4:37:36 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		You've got a unicorn!??!?! Get outta here!


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 5:04:27 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Selectivelight
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: Selectivelight
... *shrug* About time -somebody- said it.

You need to elaborate.

Want me to spell it out for you? Fine. America's number 1 export; arrogant meddling.

If they don't agree with us and the things we do, we speak ill of them, taunt and ridicule them (France disagreeing with our post twin towers war posturing; freedom fries, a lot of racist banter and jokes, and political posturing that didn't make them change their minds. Good for you, France.)  in widely visible ways.

If they have a government we don't agree with, we want to "spread democracy", when the reality is our own government is so corrupt and crooked that the average American will never stand a chance at "the American dream".

While our own citizens go hungry, our debts go unpaid, and our social services continue to suffer rampant underfunding, (and worse, if the services are for women, the poor, or veterans.)... we continue to tax the poor, neglect the downtrodden, and then claim the moral high ground for sending care packages of grain to foreign countries. [Don't get me wrong, nice gesture and I'm glad we do it, but it's like whitewashing a tombstone. Doesn't change the rot beneath.]

While we're -still- holding prisoners without the -hope- of due process... prisoners whom we've tortured, abused, and denied basic human rights... we have the gall to tell other countries how they should treat people.

And I could continue to illustrate our hypocrisy, quite readily. So yeah, it's about time someone other than leftist blog writers came out and said it.

You want to take the moral high ground? Want to tell someone else they're wrong? Well, take the log from your own eye before pointing out the mote in your brother's.

The US is no. 1 in exporting weapons of mass destruction and in exporting garbage.

With most people still falsely believing we live in a real democracy, the Chinese sound like fascists hypocites. To those who believe we live in a plutocracy making its own slow progress toward fascism...the Chinese will soon be giving us pointers.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/11/2011 5:06:28 PM >

(in reply to Selectivelight)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/11/2011 9:09:19 PM   
Guido1911


Posts: 8
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

China does have quite a few points. Will we be arrogant enough not to listen?


No they do not have a point.

Do we put people in jail because they oppose Obama?





No we don't...however we should put Obama in jail for treason and convict him of same. I think the joint chiefs can take it from there. And if you like him, you are part of the problem.

We should simply default on our debt to China and offer them the debt instruments that make the rest of the world our debtors so they can collect that money. Then we need to raise import taxes through the roof and learn to make do one what we have here. But don't worry, it won't happen...we are already down the tubes and in 5 years this illegal alien thing won't be an issue for us...it will be an issue for the Mexican government as thousands of US Citizens sneak into Mexico hoping to at least get the hand out of a free taco to eat. It's too late. We might as well nuke everyone and start the entire process of life over again.


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/12/2011 5:24:36 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

What is germane here is we have a repressive government with a long history of abuses against its own people.



And can you say Native American and Afro-Caribbean? Segregation? Or would you prefer the more South African term apartheid?

The war on terrorism and the Prevention of Terrorism Acts?

The US death penalty?

Guantanamo Bay?

And I won't even mention Bahrain and Baluchistan, because like you say, it's apples and oranges.

But then again, the US Government have shipped so many tanks to the Middle East and Afghanistan that they might struggle to find a few spare ones in Washington.


Wait,,,,,and where was the UK and Eurozone during all these things? yeah, as usual, thumbs inserted up ass..

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: China scolds the U.S. - 4/12/2011 5:40:26 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

What is germane here is we have a repressive government with a long history of abuses against its own people.



And can you say Native American and Afro-Caribbean? Segregation? Or would you prefer the more South African term apartheid?

The war on terrorism and the Prevention of Terrorism Acts?

The US death penalty?

Guantanamo Bay?

And I won't even mention Bahrain and Baluchistan, because like you say, it's apples and oranges.

But then again, the US Government have shipped so many tanks to the Middle East and Afghanistan that they might struggle to find a few spare ones in Washington.


Wait,,,,,and where was the UK and Eurozone during all these things? yeah, as usual, thumbs inserted up ass..


Well if you want to see it that way yes.. We also don't have that too impressive a human rights record either.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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