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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/17/2011 12:19:05 PM   
Edwynn


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It was a joke, lieber geile.

A joke bout hearsay 'information.'

And I only used that particular state because it came to my head for no reason.

It was you that came up with some crazy American law that some friend of a friend thought he or she heard about that no one in America ever heard of.


Ich kann blöd als dich werden!


Even if I don't know how to say it properly.



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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/17/2011 7:05:54 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
In the English camp, you have the analytical school: Moore, Russell, Wittgenstein.

In the continental camp, you have a belief that philosophy and politics cannot be separated from its historical background and theories have been developed on the contintent such as existentialism, structuralism and post structuralism: Heidegger, Focault, Sartre.

Edited to add: we may be European to an extent, but the fact that we're an island has had a massive influence on the way we think. Were we joined to the continent we would think like them; we have not lived for centuries with the threat of armies marching over our borders.

Although there are distinctive philosophical traditions, it is unduly black and white to cast the British as Empiricists and Europeans as Rationalists. In France alone there were important Empiricists like Diderot, Montesquieu (similar to Locke in many respects) and de Condillac, and Hume, probably the greatest empiricist of them all was much admired there. Besides which both schools of thought are entwined. Kant only made his philosophical break throughs after Hume helped him along. England isn't in Europe to an extent. It is in Europe as much as the Tories and UKIP abhor the notion. I'm not a fan of the EU but there does seem to be a "splendid isolationist" Europhobia amongst the British.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
England tolerant of religious diversity? Really? I mean seriously, england's history of NOT being religiously tolerant is well documented. Why the hell do you believed the US colonies even began if not for religious freedom? So perhaps now the UK shows such tolerance, but historically exactly the opposite. What exactly does the UK contribute to the world today in terms of technology, the space program or anything? When was the last time we heard about any new computer coming from the UK or new developments in space exploration? You're right, you live on an island and still think you are something special.


In answer to the first part, a read of European history tells you no where had full religious tolerance 400 years ago. I fail to see what England in 1611 has to do with England in 2011.

Quite correct that religious tolerance was in short supply 400 years ago but more recently the contrast between continental Europe and the UK is less favourable. Things have improved a lot in recent decades but Catholicism and Protestantism is still an issue in some places like Scotland (never mind the North of Ireland which is an exception).

quote:


As for the assertion that Britain never invents anything... Thats so laughable I wont even bother to reply.

The British have their share of inventors. Historically the Scots seemed particularly talented although that may be favouritism on my part!

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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/18/2011 2:15:22 AM   
geilematz


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"- In Minnesota, USA, it is still against the law to hang male and female underwear together on the same washing line."

source:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/weird/the-worlds-strangest-laws/story-e6frev20-1111114208087

the point is to illustrate the abundance of gender related rules/laws in connection with clothes


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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/18/2011 3:21:46 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

The British have their share of inventors. Historically the Scots seemed particularly talented although that may be favouritism on my part!


Indeed, although most inventions are just improvements of a previous idea. One could argue that of all the great Scottish inventors Maxwell could take pride of place for his work in Physics. A fairly unknown figure he ranks up there with Newton, Faraday and Einstein.

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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/18/2011 11:04:09 AM   
ResidentSadist


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It's a crock of shit either way you flips the coin.  Fuck the veil, outlaw blouses and make them show their titties too.  Fuck the blouses . . . lets see some pussy! So where should it begin and where should it end? 

Freedom of religion is abused to no end.  Going to jail?  Hate the food?  Just say you are Jewish and demand kosher.  You'll get catered restaurant kosher meals while the rest of the prisoners eat slop.  The list is endless.  The church and state aren't separate . . . anywhere. 

So the question is "backbone or racist".  Since having a few less women with veils isn't gonna' change the safety of the public and outlawing "hoodies" would be a more sensable move, I say France is showing they have the backbone to admit they are racist. 


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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/18/2011 11:23:11 AM   
kdsub


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There is a big uproar in my local Muslim Community this week. It seems a woman dressed in a burqa tried to buy a mattress at a mall but was denied because she tried to use a personal check. She refused to allow the checker to see her face for id. She was escorted from the store.

Seems pretty unreasonable on her part and the Muslim Community... I mean I can't even go into my local bank wearing sunglasses.

There needs to be some compromise on both sides of this issue... at least in America or we may have a law like France.

Butch

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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/18/2011 2:29:52 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

England tolerant of religious diversity? Really? I mean seriously, england's history of NOT being religiously tolerant is well documented. Why the hell do you believed the US colonies even began if not for religious freedom? So perhaps now the UK shows such tolerance, but historically exactly the opposite. What exactly does the UK contribute to the world today in terms of technology, the space program or anything? When was the last time we heard about any new computer coming from the UK or new developments in space exploration? You're right, you live on an island and still think you are something special.



In answer to the first part, a read of European history tells you no where had full religious tolerance 400 years ago. I fail to see what England in 1611 has to do with England in 2011.

As for the assertion that Britain never invents anything... Thats so laughable I wont even bother to reply.



The much celebrated Voltaire, champion of reason and liberty, but no original philosopher, learned everything he knew from England.

England's history of 'not being religiously tolerant is well documented'? Good god, tell the French that, they learned a trick or two from us.

While just about every country in the world was running round strapping one another to wheels and pulling their arms off, we'd worked out that, actually, religious tolerance was useful.

Only The Netherlands, then the United Provinces, had come to a similar conclusion at that point, and to be fair the Flemish/Dutch lot were leading the way in liberal attitudes.

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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/18/2011 2:59:51 PM   
nephandi


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Greetings

France is not racist, Islam is not a race it is a religion. They are however intolerant in the extreme forcing their ideas of the proper way to live their lives on others. It is unacceptable, a government should not get involved in how people choose to dress. This ban have reduced my views on France manifold, I am disappointed a proposed free and democratic Western nation do this kind of shit to it's people. Let people practice their religion in peace!

I wish you well.


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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/18/2011 10:05:20 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Nephandi,

You claim the government shouldn't tell people how to dress. Suppose people decided they would start wearing ski masks on their face or halloween masks ALL THE TIME. This should be ok? Or can you see the chaos that would ensue?

The religious basis for this is not explicit. The qoran (sp?) calls for modesty. The majority of muslim women manage to do this without covering their face. Interestingly enough, "modesty" typically includes lack of adornment, but that adornment exists in the way of makeup.

The reality is 100% tolerance of all is not possible. I can't remember the exact location, but I read just today where radical muslims (the same which dictates women wearing veils) were protesting because of a christian governor. Christians in that area were AFRAID to leave their home to attend church on Palm Sunday. This groups wants to be able to dictate EVERYONE'S activities, including yours given the chance.

Look at the post above. Should that women have been able to write the check without the clerk being able to confirm her identity? Rather than comply with OUR policies in OUR country, she went home without her purchase.

Like it or not, a line must be drawn in the sand somewhere. Considering this particular group is very open about their hatred of all things not them, and open in their desire to rid the world of people who don't share their beliefs, I am quite comfortable drawing that line. Perhaps being able to see the smoke from the twin towers from my house on 9/11 colors my view. That's ok. Most of us in North America and Europe have only heard stories from our parents or grandparents about what it was like with the bombs all over Europe during WWII. For many Americans, who hadn't had any kind of attack of that magnatude on our soil since Pearl Harbor and prior to that the American Revolution (I don't count the Civil War since we were fighting each other), 9/11 made us thinks differently about what we will "tolerate."

I don't care what they do in their part of the world and believe we need to get our troops the hell out. But when theey are here in MY country, I expect them to follow my country's rules. For the majority of Muslims this isn't a problem. If I were to visit your country, I am expected to know a little of the language to get around. I'm expected to withold my shock at the blatent full frontal nudity in movies.

In other words, I adjust to my host's culture. I don't expect my host to change to accomodate to me.

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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/20/2011 7:10:15 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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Just my tuppence worth but I'm surprised no one on this thread actually suggested we should be greatful to these women. Those of us cursed with an overactive libido know all too well the inner turmoil a scantily clad Western female can cause... I hope there is some way in which I can show my appreciation, perhaps with the item below.



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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/20/2011 9:03:33 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

Just my tuppence worth but I'm surprised no one on this thread actually suggested we should be greatful to these women. Those of us cursed with an overactive libido know all too well the inner turmoil a scantily clad Western female can cause... I hope there is some way in which I can show my appreciation, perhaps with the item below.



lol, that actually is a funny way to look at

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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/20/2011 9:24:47 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
Just my tuppence worth but I'm surprised no one on this thread actually suggested we should be greatful to these women. Those of us cursed with an overactive libido know all too well the inner turmoil a scantily clad Western female can cause... I hope there is some way in which I can show my appreciation, perhaps with the item below.


lol, that actually is a funny way to look at

Absolutely no joking on my part!!! Devout men have to retreat from society, by going to monasteries and the like to escape sensual temptation. Why should we burden the virtuous members of society? We can talk all day long about freedom but why should women burden the virtuous in this way which limits their freedom? Lets bring the retreat to the street!

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RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/20/2011 9:27:15 AM   
windchymes


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In most places in the US, at least, we have been forced to wear seat belts and motorcycle helmets for our own safety. If wearing a full-face-covering burka compromises human safety in some way, then so be any rules or laws created for that reason, IMO.

I will say, living in a demographically "diverse" area of the country myself, I've seen women so bundled up in burkas in, say, the grocery store, that they have no peripheral vision and their hearing is apparently muffled because they will step right into the path of an oncoming shopping cart when approached from the back or side. I do see where regulating the wearing of burkas in public could have some benefit for personal safety of both the wearer and the other bypassers who might possibly be struck by a shopping cart attempting to avoid a collision.

The law is supposed to be for the freedom to practice the religion of your choice....practice away, Allah bless 'em. I never saw where it obligated any non-practicer to protect them from their own oblivion.

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