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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/13/2011 6:05:05 PM   
housesub4you


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quote:

our only hope to stop Obamas runaway spending is the Republican House


So you're saying that the GOP did not go crazing with spending every-time they controlled the pocketbook since Reagan???  Cause they talk a good game but the whole "deficits don't matter game plan" is all we have seen. 

They did not seem concerned with medicaid, social security, or(again) medicaid, or  a balanced budget when they had complete control......  Unless you care to offer proof of a bill which they did when they controlled all 3 branches of government

< Message edited by housesub4you -- 4/13/2011 6:08:20 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/13/2011 6:08:22 PM   
Sanity


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No, I wasnt discussing Ronald Reagans budget, I wasnt discussing Richard Nixons budget, nor was I discussing Abraham Lincolns budget, I was discussing the present budget, as in the here and now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

quote:

our only hope to stop Obamas runaway spending is the Republican House


So you're saying that the GOP did not go crazing with spending every-time they controlled the pocketbook since Reagan???  Cause they talk a good game but the whole "deficits don't matter game plan" is all we have seen. 

They did not seem concerned with medicaid, social security, medicaid, or  a balanced budget when they had complete control......  Unless you care to offer proof of a bill which they did when they controlled all 3 branches of government



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(in reply to housesub4you)
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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/13/2011 6:13:13 PM   
housesub4you


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Ohhhh so ONLY YOUUUUUUUUUUU can bring up the past and hold the Dems accountable for past actions...but the GOP does not have to answer for their behavior in the past..hmmmmm  seems a bit dysfunctional to me. 

So it's ok for your party to fuck things up, and yet they never have to answer for their past votes, budgets or anything.....seems strange than that you would say anything about a past Dem President, I mean if the GOP can't be blamed for their past fuck-ups why should the DEMS???

You know shit like this: 


[link=http://www.collarme.com/Sanity][/link]

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Neither LBJ nor Clinton balanced any budget. LBJs sleight of hand was to include Social Security surpluses which were off budget until then, and subsequently removed. And we all know now that Clinton never had a surplus, if you know what ">" means.


I mean if you say the GOP is not accountable then how can you hold the DEMS accountable


But when we hold current GOP members accountable for how they vote or for what they say you cry NO NO not fair  as seen in other posts about the GOP ... So whats fair is fair...but then we are talking the NEW GOP and fair is a word they have never heard of


< Message edited by housesub4you -- 4/13/2011 6:18:19 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/13/2011 6:17:55 PM   
Sanity


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Ever heard of context?

That was in response to jlfs erroneous claims, he was the one who brought those up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Ohhhh so ONLY YOUUUUUUUUUUU can bring up the past and hold the Dems accountable for past actions...but the GOP does not have to answer for their behavior in the past..hmmmmm  seems a bit dysfunctional to me. 

So it's ok for your party to fuck things up, and yet they never have to answer for their past votes, budgets or anything.....seems strange than that you would say anything about a past Dem President, I mean if the GOP can't be blamed for their past fuck-ups why should the DEMS???

You know shit like this: 


[link=http://www.collarme.com/Sanity][/link]

Posts: 11488
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: online
Neither LBJ nor Clinton balanced any budget. LBJs sleight of hand was to include Social Security surpluses which were off budget until then, and subsequently removed. And we all know now that Clinton never had a surplus, if you know what ">" means.


I mean if you say the GOP is not accountable then how can you hold the DEMS



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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/13/2011 6:19:43 PM   
housesub4you


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quote:

Ever heard of context?


No I only watch FOX  :)


< Message edited by housesub4you -- 4/13/2011 6:20:22 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/13/2011 6:23:09 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Damn thing about facts is, every Dem in Congress voted for war except Kucinich, and Bill and Hillary Clinton and Al Gore and John Kerry, Dick Durbin, et al all gave lengthy speeches describing Saddam Hussein as a serious threat

And now Obama is bombing Libya

DAMN those facts 


quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Or perhaps it could be a WAR the American people where lied to about, you know the whole WMD thing and perhaps the fact that the war was never in the national budget until Obama put it there.

Ahhhh....yes the battle cry of the GOP  9/11...9/11....we must all live in fear because we began a war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11...I wonder why Bush never held the Saudis responsible, you know for all the terrorist that came from their country.  And don't you just love the fact while GOV of Texas he had Bin ladan stay at the Texas Mansion and got money from the Bin laden family for all his failed oil companies...Gee  facts facts facts....of that when the great Reagan was in office he sold all the weapons to the very people who attacked us...  Facts facts facts.... Dam thing about facts, no matter how to try to deny them they are still there


...but wait, this OP is about the CBO and the budget so no matter who voted for the use of force and one hoped, not the hopelessly incompetent Bush & Co.,...it was free. That's right, a free war. In fact...off books thanx to all of the repub majorities. Those same repubs also raised the debt limit 8 times...all without a peep from any 'partiers.'

The budget debate now does not include any war spending, so it's not up for this discussion either in this OP. Plus, it's been like pulling teeth to cut defense overspending and as much because of the profits for their constituents.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/13/2011 6:37:57 PM   
Sanity


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The Tea Party didnt exist at the time, pesky fact that. Still though, fiscal conservatives were none too happy about increasing debt under the liberal spender Bush, nor did any fiscal conservative believe that either Al Gore or John Kerry would have been better at being fiscally conservative. In fact, the mere thought is laughable...

quote:

all without a peep from any 'partiers.'


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/13/2011 6:47:32 PM   
housesub4you


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No..but strange how that is...I mean with all the ties to the Koch Brothers who got kicked out of the GOP way back in Goldwaters day....  Still you would think they could learn USA history before they begin their bitching

Slogans on their signs  "Keep the Government out of my Medicare"  "Social Security is an entitlement program" 

I mean it has been proven they gave over $150 million to the teabaggers, but it is still a "grassroots"organization"


but FACTS  I waste my time

(they being koch brothers)


< Message edited by housesub4you -- 4/13/2011 6:48:43 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 7:15:37 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Damn thing about facts is, every Dem in Congress voted for war except Kucinich, and Bill and Hillary Clinton and Al Gore and John Kerry, Dick Durbin, et al all gave lengthy speeches describing Saddam Hussein as a serious threat

And now Obama is bombing Libya

DAMN those facts 


Yeah, shocking how no one on the left believed a President would just make shit up to convince us to go to war. Got to credit Bush with bringing a level of disrepute to the office never before achieved.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 8:34:15 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yeah, shocking how no one on the left believed a President would just make shit up to convince us to go to war. Got to credit Bush with bringing a level of disrepute to the office never before achieved.



"Shocking" a President would just make shit up... 

quote:

Transcript President Clinton explains Iraq strike

Earlier today, I ordered Americas armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraqs nuclear,chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.

Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biologicalweapons.


I want to explain why I have decided, with the unanimous recommendation of my national security team, to use force in Iraq; why we have acted now; and what we aim to accomplish.

Six weeks ago, Saddam Hussein announced that he would no onger cooperate with the United Nations weapons inspectors called UNSCOM. They are highly professional experts from dozens of countries. Their job is to oversee the elimination of Iraqs capability to retain, create and use weapons of mass destruction, and to verify that Iraq does not attempt to rebuild that capability.

The inspectors undertook this mission first 7.5 years ago atthe end of the Gulf War when Iraq agreed to declare and destroyits arsenal as a condition of the ceasefire.

The international community had good reason to set this requirement. Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is onebig difference He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly.Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy,but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq.

The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.

The United States has patiently worked to preserve UNSCOM asIraq has sought to avoid its obligation to cooperate with theinspectors. On occasion, weve had to threaten military force,and Saddam has backed down.

Faced with Saddams latest act of defiance in late October,we built intensive diplomatic pressure on Iraq backed by overwhelming military force in the region. The UN Security Council voted 15 to zero to condemn Saddams actions and to demand that he immediately come into compliance.

Eight Arab nations Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia,Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman warned that Iraq alone would bear responsibility for the consequences of defying the UN.When Saddam still failed to comply, we prepared to act militarily. It was only then at the last possible moment that Iraq backed down. It pledged to the UN that it had made, and I quote, a clear and unconditional decision to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors.

I decided then to call off the attack with our airplanesalready in the air because Saddam had given in to our demands.I concluded then that the right thing to do was to use restraint and give Saddam one last chance to prove his willingness to cooperate.
I made it very clear at that time what unconditional cooperation meant, based on existing UN resolutions and Iraqs own commitments. And along with Prime Minister Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully, we would be prepared to act without delay,diplomacy or warning.

Now over the past three weeks, the UN weapons inspectors have carried out their plan for testing Iraqs cooperation. The testing period ended this weekend, and last night, UNSCOMs chairman, Richard Butler, reported the results to UN Secretary General Annan.

The conclusions are stark, sobering and profoundly disturbing.

In four out of the five categories set forth, Iraq has failedto cooperate. Indeed, it actually has placed new restrictionson the inspectors. Here are some of the particulars.

Iraq repeatedly blocked UNSCOM from inspecting suspect sites.For example, it shut off access to the headquarters of itsruling party and said it will deny access to the partys other offices, even though UN resolutions make no exception for them and UNSCOM has inspected them in the past.Iraq repeatedly restricted UNSCOMs ability to obtain necessary evidence. For example, Iraq obstructed UNSCOMs effort to photograph bombs related to its chemical weapons program.It tried to stop an UNSCOM biological weapons team fromvideotaping a site and photocopying documents and preventedIraqi personnel from answering UNSCOMs questions.

Prior to the inspection of another site, Iraqactually emptied out the building, removing not just documentsbut even the furniture and the equipment.

Iraq has failed to turn over virtually all the documents requested by the inspectors. Indeed, we know that Iraq ordered the destruction of weapons related documents in anticipation of an UNSCOM inspection.
So Iraq has abused its final chance.
As the UNSCOM reports concludes, and again I quote, Iraqsconduct ensured that no progress was able to be made in the fields of disarmament.
In light of this experience, and in the absence of fullcooperation by Iraq, it must regrettably be recorded again thatthe commission is not able to conduct the work mandated to it bythe Security Council with respect to Iraqs prohibited weaponsprogram.
In short, the inspectors are saying that even if they couldstay in Iraq, their work would be a sham.Saddams deception has defeated theireffectiveness. Instead of the inspectors disarming Saddam,Saddam has disarmed the inspectors.

This situation presents a clear and present danger to the stability of the Persian Gulf and the safety of people everywhere. The international community gave Saddam one last chance to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors.Saddam has failed to seize the chance.And so we had to act and act now.

Let me explain why.

First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years.

Second, if Saddam can crippled the weapons inspection system and get away with it, he would conclude that the international community led by the United States has simply lost its will. He will surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction, and someday make no mistake hewill use it again as he has in the past.

Third, in halting our air strikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance, not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance,the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed. We will not only have allowed Saddam to shatter the inspection system that controls his weapons of mass destruction program; we also will have fatally undercut the fear of force that stops Saddam from acting to gain domination in the region.

That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq.

They are designed to degrade Saddams capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors.
At the same time, we are delivering a powerful message to Saddam. If you act recklessly, you will pay a heavy price. We acted today because, in the judgment of my military advisers, a swift response would provide the most surprise and the least opportunity for Saddam to prepare.

If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butlers report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons.

Also, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins this weekend.For us to initiate military action during Ramadan would be profoundly offensive to the Muslim world and, therefore, would damage our relations with Arab countries and the progress we have made in the Middle East.
That is something we wanted very much to avoid without giving Iraqs a months head start to prepare for potential action against it.Finally, our allies, including Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain, concurred that now is the time to strike. I hope Saddam will come into cooperation with the inspection system now and comply with the relevant UN Security Council resolutions.But we have to be prepared that he will not, and we must deal with the very real danger he poses.

So we will pursue a long term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction and work toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people.

First, we must be prepared to use force again if Saddam takes threatening actions, such as trying to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction or their delivery systems, threatening his neighbors, challenging allied aircraft over Iraq or moving against his own Kurdish citizens.

The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, theactual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddamsweapons of mass destruction program, curtail his aggression andprevent another Gulf War.

Second, so long as Iraq remains out of compliance, we will work with the international community to maintain and enforce economic sanctions. Sanctions have cost Saddam more than 120billion resources that would have been used to rebuild his military. The sanctions system allows Iraq to sell oil for food, for medicine, for other humanitarian supplies for the Iraqi people.

We have no quarrel with them. But without the sanctions, we would see the oil for food program become oil for tanks, resulting in a greater threat to Iraqs neighbors and less food for its people.


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(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 9:02:24 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yeah, shocking how no one on the left believed a President would just make shit up to convince us to go to war. Got to credit Bush with bringing a level of disrepute to the office never before achieved.


non sequitur removed

Yes it is shocking. It's more shocking that after the lies have been thoroughly disproven you continue to try and claim Bush wasn't lying. There was no active WMD program in 2002.

You are trying to deny that the weapon inspectors did go back in, after Clinton took action to force Iraq to accept them, and they were successful in shutting down those facilities.


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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 9:12:00 AM   
Sanity


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I think that leftist smear has been thoroughly debunked, these days only the Kool-Aide crowd still tries to rely on it to win points in budget debates, ken... 

Hell, even Obama is out there bombing brown people these days, but youre only too happy to overlook that, arent you. When did Libya ever attack us. Obama ever find their WMDs ken?


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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 9:14:37 AM   
DomKen


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Obama never claimed Libya had WMD's liar.

I dare you to provide one bit of evidence that Iraq had an active WMD program when we invaded.

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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 9:19:55 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Oh - so its okay to attack a country that doesnt have WMDs after all...

Got it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Obama never claimed Libya had WMD's liar.

I dare you to provide one bit of evidence that Iraq had an active WMD program when we invaded.


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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 9:30:51 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Oh - so its okay to attack a country that doesnt have WMDs after all...

Got it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Obama never claimed Libya had WMD's liar.

I dare you to provide one bit of evidence that Iraq had an active WMD program when we invaded.


Nobody ever said it wasn't. However it isn't ok to tell lies to convince the nation to invading another nation.

So where are those Iraqi WMD's? You did claim above that they existed.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 9:34:50 AM   
Sanity


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Where is your proof that anyone ever lied ken?

Obama has had the chance to have his people review the evidence.






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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 9:39:02 AM   
DomKen


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Here, amongst many other places,
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/karon/article/0,9565,463779,00.html

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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 9:50:12 AM   
slvemike4u


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Is it actually possible to be more obtuse than sanity is pretending to be.Is it possible that the state of Iowa/Idaho(whatever the fuck)actually could issue someone this dense a drivers license.
~sanity~
Oh - so its okay to attack a country that doesnt have WMDs after all...
in reply to a statement concerning lying about WMD.....One has to wonder how he chose to answer the ..."What does a yellow light mean"
My mind jumps to the skit they did in that old sit-com "Taxi" wherein the gang tried to help Reverend Jim pass his written test.The Rev character would whisper to one of the co-conspirators.. "what does a yellow light mean" wherein one or the other would respond "slow down".Prompting the Rev to ask once again,this time slowly   " what.....does....a ....yellow.....light ....mean"
This of course was repeated repeatedly,,,,till the rev was pretty much whispering in virtual slo mo.


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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 11:39:13 AM   
Sanity


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Your link goes back to Joe Wilson, whose testimony is questionable. How much money did he and his wife make on their book deals and their little celebrity gossip tour? Ever wonder about that?

Besides the Wilsons' credibility gap the Yellow Cake conspiracy nonsense is plagued with other holes that look a lot like these:

...if the teller is unaware that he is uttering an untruth

"Fleischer's remarks follow assertions...


But that defense is under mounting pressure from a variety of sources claiming...

There is no smoking gun, ken. Certainly nothing warranting your endless derails over he matter. As an aside though, what is your opinion as to why Obama hasnt looked into these fantastic claims?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Here, amongst many other places,
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/karon/article/0,9565,463779,00.html


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RE: CBO and the budget deal - 4/14/2011 11:42:00 AM   
mnottertail


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Uh, my opinion would be that upon damn near the very day of his taking office, he said he will not pursue any actions against W.  That it was time to begin healing the country.  It made the fucking TV and newspapers. 

Surprised you missed it, as politically astute as you are.

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