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RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 12:26:12 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
You really are clueless... UH letsee she could always um let me think about this she could LEAVE ah DUH. Like I said in my previous post try telling your boss about his responsibilities to you. Let me know how that works out for you. Question the bosses authority all you want, as it will only get you fired. Come talk to me when your all growed up.

And it wouldn't surprise me if your subs leave you quite frequently. But I'm sure that Doms/Dommes who are more skilled than you probably recognize that there are things that they can do to help maintain and foster the health of the relationship. And they don't mind doing those things. After all, having your subs/slaves constantly walking out on you gets old after a while.

BTW, I can't really do what you proposed and question my boss' authority. I own my own company, and I haven't had a boss in over a decade. But if my employees tell me about my responsibilities, as a leader and authority figure, I listen to them and make a decision accordingly. For example, if they tell me that I failed to pay them for the overtime that they worked, well, I pay them. If they tell me that a fellow employee has been harassing them sexually, I look into it. And if I fail to look into it and allow them to continue to be harassed, I expect them to call me on it.

I see that we have very different views of what authority means. I believe that I'm still responsible to those who work for me. You believe that authority frees you from any responsibility other than to tell others what to do. Hmmmm, with an attitude like that, I'll bet that in your professional life, you don't wield much authority. If you did, you'd understand that reminding your boss of his responsibilities is not likely to get you fired. Labor laws make it a bit more difficult to fire people than that. Even in "employment at will" states where you can fire employees without cause, you still end up having to pay them unemployment benefits, which is expensive, and it makes your insurance rates go up.

You'll learn about those things when you're all grown up.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 4/22/2011 1:03:02 PM >

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 41

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 3:09:39 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

You really are clueless... UH letsee she could always um let me think about this she could LEAVE ah DUH. Like I said in my previous post try telling your boss about his responsibilities to you. Let me know how that works out for you. Question the bosses authority all you want, as it will only get you fired. Come talk to me when your all growed up.

There are laws that govern the work place in ways that inhibit bosses from using their authority with impunity. The boss may fire you, but in the end a disgruntled employee may end up owning the company if workplace abuses are found to be too egregious. I am not sure this analogy works very well, as the relationship between boss and employee is much different, and in my experience not so authoritarian as you seem to believe it to be. First of all, there are many levels of "bosses", and not all of them have the power to hire and fire at will. It can be extremely hard to get rid of some employees, even if they absolutely deserve it.

And yes, I have questioned a boss or two in my lifetime and retained my job, not all bosses have that large of an ego that any sort of questioning automatically would lead to a dismissal. Just my experience.

Oh yea I hear about that every day... some disgruntled employee ends up owning a company... yea it happens all the time. I heard that is what happened to General motors. The more likely scenario is disgruntled employee goes and shoots up the place not "owning" the place.

As far as you telling the boss to stick it where the sun dont shine cuz "you dont have the authority to make me do that" I for one know I fire yer ass in a second. It has nothing to do with ego it's about Im paying your ass to do a job iffen you don't want to do it get out. Real Simple Shit

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/22/2011 3:11:57 PM >

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Post #: 42

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 4:10:18 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
Exactly! Leadership is quibbling over semantics. Whether you call them responsibilities, rights, consequences, or "fiddle-faddles", each party in a relationship has things that they need to do to keep that relationship intact.

But the fact that those things all have some commonality doesn't at all make them the same. At least in my ears, "rights" and "responsibilities" carry with them a sense of entitlement. In fact, when I see posts using those concepts, it's almost invariably to use them as a weapon. Carol and I aren't in combat with each other. We don't need defenses and we don't need weapons. Whether one of us had a "right", a responsibility, or whether something is fair or not really doesn't matter.

Let's suppose that we convinced the OP that Dom's had a responsibility to take out the garbage. No she falls in love with this guy and falls at his knees. Lo and behold, he sucks at remembering to take out the garbage. Then what? That's when "responsibilities" become weapons.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

Post #: 43

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 4:18:36 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

And it wouldn't surprise me if your subs leave you quite frequently. But I'm sure that Doms/Dommes who are more skilled than you probably recognize that there are things that they can do to help maintain and foster the health of the relationship. And they don't mind doing those things. After all, having your subs/slaves constantly walking out on you gets old after a while.

And yet there are quite a lot that prefer situations that are predicated on 'my way or the highway' philosophies. While we may not see it demonstrated on CM very frequently, i encounter it a quite a lot elsewhere. The desire for benevolence isn't universal.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

Post #: 44

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 4:23:34 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

And it wouldn't surprise me if your subs leave you quite frequently. But I'm sure that Doms/Dommes who are more skilled than you probably recognize that there are things that they can do to help maintain and foster the health of the relationship. And they don't mind doing those things. After all, having your subs/slaves constantly walking out on you gets old after a while.

And yet there are quite a lot that prefer situations that are predicated on 'my way or the highway' philosophies. While we may not see it demonstrated on CM very frequently, i encounter it a quite a lot elsewhere. The desire for benevolence isn't universal.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

That's how I roll. This is not a democracy

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 45

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 4:36:44 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

As far as you telling the boss to stick it where the sun dont shine cuz "you dont have the authority to make me do that" I for one know I fire yer ass in a second. It has nothing to do with ego it's about Im paying your ass to do a job iffen you don't want to do it get out. Real Simple Shit

If you have employees, I wonder how skilled they are, and how easily you retain them when the economy provides them a choice.

Personally, I am not in the habit of telling people where to "stick it", because it just isn't something that happens in my line of work too often. If they are treading on me by endangering my health, etc, and would not address it when I informed them that these conditions existed, well I might have no other recourse but to sue them because they were not living up to their LEGAL responsibilities.

Big corporations have something called the chain of command, and middle managers do not make all of the hiring and firing choices, so yeah, someone in a large company could probably get away with telling their supervisor to "stick it" without immediately losing their job, and could probably sue their employer and settle out of court if it came right down to it (yes, that happens all of the time)

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(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 46

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 4:42:14 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

But the fact that those things all have some commonality doesn't at all make them the same. At least in my ears, "rights" and "responsibilities" carry with them a sense of entitlement. In fact, when I see posts using those concepts, it's almost invariably to use them as a weapon. Carol and I aren't in combat with each other. We don't need defenses and we don't need weapons. Whether one of us had a "right", a responsibility, or whether something is fair or not really doesn't matter.

Using the parent analogy, I had responsibilities to my son when I was raising him... I never thought of this as a "combative" sort of thing.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 47

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 4:42:37 PM

LadyTeazer

Posts: 225
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

To teach her not to use text speak in a public forum?

My first thought as well. And also that using Spellcheck is not a bad thing.

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Post #: 48

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 5:36:53 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
Exactly! Leadership is quibbling over semantics. Whether you call them responsibilities, rights, consequences, or "fiddle-faddles", each party in a relationship has things that they need to do to keep that relationship intact.

At least in my ears, "rights" and "responsibilities" carry with them a sense of entitlement. In fact, when I see posts using those concepts, it's almost invariably to use them as a weapon. .............That's when "responsibilities" become weapons.

That's an interesting take on it. And I see where you're coming from. But I was looking at it from a very different perspective than you seem to be.

For lack of a better term, I was looking at it from a positive perspective. I was referring to the responsibility for upholding the health and well-being of the relationship. So there would be no weapons involved. Both parties would be trying to uphold and cement the relationship, not undermine and/or destroy the relationship.

You seem to be coming at it from the opposite direction. More from the negative point of view. From that perspective, I can understand how one might use those rights or responsibilities negatively (or "as weapons" to use your term).

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but to be honest with you, that negative way of looking at it never even occurred to me. I guess you can call me "Pollyanna".

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 4/22/2011 5:37:10 PM >

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 49

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 5:44:31 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

But the fact that those things all have some commonality doesn't at all make them the same. At least in my ears, "rights" and "responsibilities" carry with them a sense of entitlement. In fact, when I see posts using those concepts, it's almost invariably to use them as a weapon. Carol and I aren't in combat with each other. We don't need defenses and we don't need weapons. Whether one of us had a "right", a responsibility, or whether something is fair or not really doesn't matter.

Using the parent analogy, I had responsibilities to my son when I was raising him... I never thought of this as a "combative" sort of thing.

That's pretty much how I saw it as well. Now that he's explained what he meant, I comprehend the "combative" way that Leadership527 is viewing this. But like you, I never thought of it as a combative thing. I was viewing it from a much more positive perspective.

Neither is right or wrong. Just two different ways of looking at the same thing I guess.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 50

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/22/2011 6:59:39 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

Leadership527,
I thought that it might be worthwhile to share the specific incident which was going through my mind when I wrote my original response that both the Dom/Domme and the sub have responsibilities, and the health of the relationship is dependent upon both playing their part.

A little over a year ago, I hooked up with a Domme from right here on CM. I won't mention who She was, but some of you may remember. Anyway, W/we had great chemistry. Everything about O/our relationship was extremely positive. She was extremely dominant, and W/we shared similar interests (both BDSM and vanilla interests). While W/we lived in different cities, it was a very easy commute, and W/we saw one another regularly. Moreover, we talked on the phone and texted one another several times each day.

As O/our relationship progressed, She gave me a number of assignments for my training. She gave me a list of 6 books that I was to read. Once I completed each, I was to write my thoughts on the books, and She was going to discuss them with me. She said that there were specific things that She wanted me to learn from each book, and after i read each one, She would explain to me how She wanted me to apply those lessons to my service to Her.

She also had me begin keeping a journal. She said that She wanted to be able to understand what was going on inside my head.

Finally, she decided to take full control of my eating habits. She was going to dictate what and when I could eat. I was not to eat without her explicit permission, and she would tell me specific items to eat for each meal.

Well, to make a long story short, things began to happen in her private life that really had nothing to do with O/our relationship, but those outside distractions began taking up more and more of Her time and attention.

Ultimately, each time I finished one of the book reports, she didn't have the time to read it. As far as I know, she never read any of them, and She never talked to me about what She wanted me to learn from each of the books. Nor did She teach me the protocols for serving Her that She had promised. i became frustrated by this, but i didn't complain, and i finished all of the books.

The journal entries that i wrote for Her were never read. i'd send them to Her, and days and even weeks later, the e-mails hadn't even been opened.

Finally, She would sometimes go as many as 3 days without contacting me about eating. When i'd send Her text messages asking for permission to eat, my text messages went unresponded to.

Because i had no desire to starve to death, i was forced to let Her know that i felt that i wasn't getting the time from Her that i needed. i didn't do it in a complaining or challenging way. Rather, i let Her know how much i desired and looked forward to Her leadership and direction.

In time, She contacted me and apologized. She stated that She realized that She had not been upholding Her end of O/our relationship. She said that outside factors had Her completely distracted, and that She didn't think that She would be able to be the type of Domme that i deserved until those outside issues were no longer taking up large portions of Her time and attention. W/we agreed to put O/our relationship on hold "until She was better able to uphold Her responsibilities as my Domme". Those were Her words, not mine.

So these are the types of things that I was referring to when I said that I thought that a Dom/Domme has responsibilities to the relationship just like the sub does. The Dom/Domme is responsible for providing leadership & guidance, setting expectations and boundaries, giving direction, providing training, guarding the sub's well-being, etc. While some might not like me using the word "responsibilities" to describe those things, I'm not sure what else to call them.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 51

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/23/2011 10:52:48 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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@Rochsub
I agree totally (of course). Since I'm one of those "authority & responsibility go together" guys and I have a whole lot of authority with Carol... well...

But that isn't how such concepts are used online in my experience. All too frequently that's not how they are used in the real world.

I made a lot of promises to Carol in our wedding vows. Do I have a "responsibility" to keep them? Does she have the "right" to expect that? Not in our marriage. In our marriage I keep those vows and aggressively work to make them true because of the same reasons I made them to start with. She's a freakin awesome human being and my own sense of right and wrong drive me try to make her life as wonderful as I can. I feel that way because of the seeds she has sown over time with me. Conveniently this motivation is a LOT stronger than "I promised 15 years ago..." I suspect Carol is probably happy to have an immediate, vibrant, and urgent motivation behind my actions rather than a dusty 15 year old vow.

Perhaps that's where it is with us? For both of us we have the "right" to receive our just karmic desserts. We both have the responsibility to live up to our own sense of honor. We are both bound and limited by the flow of karma and consequence. Neither of us feels entitled to anything from the other... not even honoring our wedding vows.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

Post #: 52

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/23/2011 10:53:59 AM

BKSir

Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTeazer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

To teach her not to use text speak in a public forum?

My first thought as well. And also that using Spellcheck is not a bad thing.

Good to see that we're all on the same page here.

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Post #: 53

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/24/2011 2:27:57 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mastercesarsub

i just want a clear picture as to a doms responsabilities to his sub. and how to go about telling him, reminding, or how ever it would be worded without consaquince. ty sirs

Qualities and responsibilities vary according to personality, knowledge and skills.

If pressed to pick out universal laws: security and well being are the two that spring to mind, but even those are open to definition depending on type.

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Post #: 54

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/25/2011 10:17:20 AM

mastercesarsub

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/24/2011
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lmao ok ok ok iget it. he is no different than any other man. i wudnt have asked if i didnt want to salvage this . so its ok to be a hypacrite, lie, ect. no matter what we agreed on. i get it.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 55

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/25/2011 6:02:26 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastercesarsub

lmao ok ok ok iget it. he is no different than any other man. i wudnt have asked if i didnt want to salvage this . so its ok to be a hypacrite, lie, ect. no matter what we agreed on. i get it.

With the possible exception of SailingBum, no one has made this claim.

If you give us specifics, we will be better able to help you.

But please do use spellcheck and refrain from textspeak else risk a spanking from the prose police.

(in reply to mastercesarsub)

Post #: 56

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/25/2011 9:43:00 PM

cooper1982

Posts: 17
Joined: 2/27/2011
Status: offline

His responsibility: food unless he wont you too starve. A roof over your head unless he like you to seep out side. And too stop you from using text speech.

Your responsibility too do as he says.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 57

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 4/26/2011 1:02:24 PM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastercesarsub

i just want a clear picture as to a doms responsabilities to his sub. and how to go about telling him, reminding, or how ever it would be worded without consaquince. ty sirs

The dom's responsiblity depends on the relationship between him and her. At the minimum it is for her safety. At it's greatest it is for her welfare.

There is no negative consequence to being honest in private. In public, a submissive speaks a language only her Dom understands when questioning his instruction, like, "yes Sir" when the command is well received or "Of course, as you wish" that should be translated into "we better not go there or I'll likely have to use the safe word on you, Sir".

< Message edited by Arturas -- 4/26/2011 1:03:10 PM >

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Post #: 58

RE: what r a doms responsabilities to a sub. - 5/1/2011 9:58:03 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

You really are clueless... UH letsee she could always um let me think about this she could LEAVE ah DUH. Like I said in my previous post try telling your boss about his responsibilities to you. Let me know how that works out for you. Question the bosses authority all you want, as it will only get you fired. Come talk to me when your all growed up.

BadOne

So if your boss tells you to violate federal laws, you going to do that? Because sometimes you have to point out the downside of his order. Yeah, you might get fired, but it's still better than going to jail.

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(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 59

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