Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of?

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BonesFromAsh -> Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 9:23:48 AM)
I was having an interesting discussion with a man on the profile side concerning intelligence and respect or the loss of it. We were talking about the game of chess....I was taught the game as a child by my Dad and have enjoyed playing with anyone I happen to come across who even remotely knows the game. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination and don't take it as serious as some folks do. Anyway...the man I was emailing with said he would have lost all respect if he had beaten his opponent (in this case, his commanding officer) because it would have shown him to be "smarter" than his superior. This got me wondering...what part does intelligence and the ability to outsmart or out-think your partner (depending on whether you're dominant or submissive) play within a dynamic and does this lead to gaining or losing respect in any way? Basically...does the domme need to be smarter than the submissive in order to retain respect?

CarpeComa -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 10:23:32 AM)
I find the judgment that because he beat someone at a game that means he was smarter than the person he beat a rather narrow minded one. There are plenty of things which I am not good at, either for a lack of practice or because my mind just isn't wired that way. Plenty of very bright people are functionally retarded in some ways. You would be hard pressed to find a submissive that would want or prefer a dominant whom they thought was less intelligent than themselves. It's a lot easier to internally justify turning over authority to someone you perceive as equal to or smarter than you. The reasoning behind this is that people of similar or better intelligence ought to make decisions as well or better than you. The logic behind the reasoning tends to fall apart under close examination, but it's a feeling that is difficult to shake. I think anyone would be challenged to stay dominant over someone who didn't think you were as smart or smarter than themselves in the way(s) that matter to them. Force would be an alternate method, but in a mutually consensual relationship maintaining control by force is not an option.

porcelaine -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 11:08:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh This got me wondering...what part does intelligence and the ability to outsmart or out-think your partner (depending on whether you're dominant or submissive) play within a dynamic and does this lead to gaining or losing respect in any way? Basically...does the domme need to be smarter than the submissive in order to retain respect? Greetings, Mental aptitude is one of the things i look for in a prospective partner. But that really isn't the golden egg. It's something else in close relation that i poke around for when we interact. i can usually surmise early on if i'm dealing with a comparable engagement for my head or one that will bore me to tears. Unfortunately, it's become commonplace for individuals to make proclamations that rarely live up to the hype upon closer inspection. As such, i detest expressions of great intellect and whenever someone attempts to flaunt their brain in a manner that is supposed to garner impression or some knee like swoon in response, i feel a modest hurl coming on. However, the individual that can illustrate mental chess and pull an outright survivor like assault on my crawlspace is tres fabu. He's the one that secures my attention and rarely loses it baring some unforeseen catastrophe. my affinity for psychological conditioning and torment make this a requirement that i cannot set aside. The individual must be able to keep pace with and outpace me to secure my hand. The man that's cognitively ambidextrous is my ideal. And it's easy to respect the gentleman that finds little need to restate a reality that is well understood by both. Namaste, ~porcelaine

RedMagic1 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 11:40:34 AM)
Dude isn't living in reality. One of the best living mathematicians is a "serious player" and he famous sucks. We used to be in the same chess club, and I am way better. I would much rather be lousy at chess and have his math skill. Being good at a useless skill does not mean someone is good at dominating (changing) reality. If it did, we would all be better off dating Halo Three experts.

pyroaquatic -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 12:20:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CarpeComa I find the judgment that because he beat someone at a game that means he was smarter than the person he beat a rather narrow minded one. There are plenty of things which I am not good at, either for a lack of practice or because my mind just isn't wired that way. Plenty of very bright people are functionally retarded in some ways. Thank you for saving me some keystrokes. I do not consider myself the worlds greatest chess player but I do enjoy an evenly matched game. Boredom sets in when the other player loses on a constant basis. That same player may have the social graces and sensitivities that I lack. Yes I do have some sort of intellect but I am not compelled to rub it in the faces of people.

Adonaei -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 12:51:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh I was having an interesting discussion with a man on the profile side concerning intelligence and respect or the loss of it. We were talking about the game of chess....I was taught the game as a child by my Dad and have enjoyed playing with anyone I happen to come across who even remotely knows the game. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination and don't take it as serious as some folks do. Anyway...the man I was emailing with said he would have lost all respect if he had beaten his opponent (in this case, his commanding officer) because it would have shown him to be "smarter" than his superior. This got me wondering...what part does intelligence and the ability to outsmart or out-think your partner (depending on whether you're dominant or submissive) play within a dynamic and does this lead to gaining or losing respect in any way? Basically...does the domme need to be smarter than the submissive in order to retain respect? If someone beats you at chess. Pull out a Go board and you'll likely demolish them, if you're on close to the same intellectual grounds. Two completely different methods of thinking. Beyond that. A brilliant person who has never touched the game can be soundly defeated by someone of mediocre intelligence who has memorized enough opening sets. Anyone who believes a single test is a demonstration of the aptitude of an entire person is shortsighted and looking to feed their own ego by referencing their own talents. Perhaps we should reduce an IQ test to merely the proverb tests and analogies. I would be one of the greatest geniuses alive, if we did. I don't believe a dominant has to be able to 'out think' their submissive in every way. Obviously, people are going to have to have their own strengths. To a submissive looking for a 'commanding officer', I would remind... That captains and generals have bomb squads and intelligence specialists for a reason. In those veins of thinking, the leaders are greatly outperformed by their subordinates. If I were to make my own army. I would train the greatest sniper I could imagine. He would easily be able to pick a target off from fifty miles far better than I could. But it isn't my job or priority to ensure that I shoot better than him. My priority is to ensure that he, and my other units, are trained and operating at their best. To analyze situations and put people where their talents are greatest utilized. To inspire them to fight with more than they ever knew they had. A good dominant is followed by men/women of skills which surpass their own. ...But in his defense, I know if I were a submissive, I could never follow someone I felt was dumb as a brick in comparison to myself.

LadyPact -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 12:54:41 PM)
I think the premise is flawed. It would be rather odd to find that, between two people, one was absolutely better in every area than the other. Chess would be an example of only one area out of how many thousands that people could think of in life? What if the guy could beat Me in chess, but I was far more knowledgeable in spelling? Literary art? Politics? Should I then have no respect for him if we couldn't discuss other areas of life because he couldn't live up to My level? I'm not going to sit here and say that I've been smarter than every submissive that I've ever had. Not in all areas. That didn't mean that there weren't some areas that I happened to be, and it seemed to work quite well.

PeonForHer -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 1:33:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh Basically...does the domme need to be smarter than the submissive in order to retain respect? No. I have to fancy her and like her, and she has to want to dominate me. For me to retain my respect for her, all she has to do is endeavour not to be dickhead. That's about it.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 1:47:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh Anyway...the man I was emailing with said he would have lost all respect if he had beaten his opponent (in this case, his commanding officer) because it would have shown him to be "smarter" than his superior. As others have stated, this individual has a very skewed view of what constitutes intelligence. I wouldn't define it as the ability to play chess, but clearly he does. Frankly, his limited definition of intelligence makes me doubt his intelligence. [:D] quote: This got me wondering...what part does intelligence and the ability to outsmart or out-think your partner (depending on whether you're dominant or submissive) play within a dynamic and does this lead to gaining or losing respect in any way? Basically...does the domme need to be smarter than the submissive in order to retain respect? Okay, this is a broader and more interesting question than the first part. Intelligence is definitely a kink for me. I am definitely attracted to intelligent people. Moreover, I tend to not be attracted to people who have lots of typos, grammatical errors, and spelling errors in their profile. But having said that, I've found that intelligence is not necessarily a component of dominance. Probably the most intelligent Domme that I ever served was also the least dominant. In fact, that's why we ended up parting ways. I enjoyed her company as a vanilla friend. We had very stimulating conversations. But as a Domme, she was lacking. She was just too nice (for me). Not that I think that Dommes have to be stereotypical uber bitches from a porn movie, but any sub/slave who has been in a relationship with a real Domme or Dom knows that there is a trait called "dominance" that you can just feel. It's hard to define, but I know it when I feel it. And she was lacking it. Contrarily, the MOST DOMINANT woman I have ever met or served would be considered "uneducated" by many. She never went to college, and she was probably a C student in high school. But she had the most naturally dominant personality I've ever come across. Her dominance was so strong, that it was actually tangible. You could literally feel her power when you were in her presence. She was naturally demanding, and she expected others to obey her. And they did. She was the only Domme I ever served who made me afraid to disappoint her. And it wasn't because she was a sadist who would inflict terrible punishment if her orders weren't followed. Rather, it was because I simply didn't want to disappoint her. Disappointing her was just unthinkable. It was almost like what vampires do on television when they put a glamour on someone, and that person has to obey them. I know that that last part may not make sense to some. But anyone who has ever been in a D/s relationship with someone with a naturally dominant personality knows exactly what I mean. Bottom line: Intelligence does not necessarily equate to dominance. By making it too high in your decision criteria, you may end up passing on the best Domme/Dom you will ever serve. So try to evaluate people in total, and not just based on one small aspect of who they are. You'll be glad you did.

Focus50 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 2:39:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh I was having an interesting discussion with a man on the profile side concerning intelligence and respect or the loss of it. We were talking about the game of chess....I was taught the game as a child by my Dad and have enjoyed playing with anyone I happen to come across who even remotely knows the game. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination and don't take it as serious as some folks do. Anyway...the man I was emailing with said he would have lost all respect if he had beaten his opponent (in this case, his commanding officer) because it would have shown him to be "smarter" than his superior. This got me wondering...what part does intelligence and the ability to outsmart or out-think your partner (depending on whether you're dominant or submissive) play within a dynamic and does this lead to gaining or losing respect in any way? Basically...does the domme need to be smarter than the submissive in order to retain respect? High intelligence isn't inclusive of wisdom, experience or commonsense. Indeed, often the opposite is true. Case in point (from the OP): "the man I was emailing with said he would have lost all respect if he had beaten his opponent (in this case, his commanding officer) because it would have shown him to be "smarter" than his superior." What it would've shown was that he was the better chess player. Ok, you'd like to think a commanding officer is the better alround strategist but I'm really taking issue with the "smarter" conclusion. A high IQ doesn't make you smart; a theme superbly exploited in award-winning comedies such as "Frasier" (by Frasier and Niles) and "3rd Rock from the Sun" (Prof Dick Solomon) etc. And it's all too often true in real life; that intelligence is often accompanied by arrogance, even to the point of stupidity in everyday situations. All gifts come with a price; that a champion chess player (where the whole board is visible to all) isn't necessarily such a great poker player. Indeed, "chump" comes to mind.... Focus.

CreepyStalker -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 2:50:58 PM)
No outsmarting is really needed; "Shut up or I'll hit you" works pretty well as a trump argument in any intellectual debate.

Focus50 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 3:16:12 PM)
Don't look now but your intelligence is unzipped.... Focus.

littlewonder -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 3:48:44 PM)
There are things he's smarter than me at and there are some things I'm smarter about than him. I don't lose any respect for him whatsoever. In fact my respect grows even deeper for him.

CreepyStalker -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 4:44:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Don't look now but your intelligence is unzipped.... Focus. Oh gosh, how embarrassing. I'll just tuck that back in before anyone else sees it.

SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 5:03:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker No outsmarting is really needed; "Shut up or I'll hit you" works pretty well as a trump argument in any intellectual debate. Have we met before? [:D] I have had agree to disagree arguments, but when I say it's over, it is. M

peppermint -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 5:30:02 PM)
I can outspell Gary every day, all day long. I proofread most of his email. However, I had not the foggiest idea how to install the new back up camera we bought for the car. We each have our areas of expertise. A superiority in one area does not make one superior in all areas.

porcelaine -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 5:43:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh Anyway...the man I was emailing with said he would have lost all respect if he had beaten his opponent (in this case, his commanding officer) because it would have shown him to be "smarter" than his superior. Basically...does the domme need to be smarter than the submissive in order to retain respect? Looking at this question at second glance i'd have to say i understand the comment made. Especially if chess is something the individual places a high value on. Spinning this along the axis you've provided, i'm going to say yes, he'd need to have definite supremacy in certain areas as it relates to ownership. Otherwise the ship can't sail. Perhaps it wasn't meant to be taken across the board as presented, but references an area of importance that he wouldn't wish to be the top dog in. i'd hate to be the better leader. That would be all sorts of jacked up. In fact, it's one of the things i take into consideration when i'm getting acquainted. And it's one of the primary reasons i say no go. Namaste, ~porcelaine

HannahLynHeather -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 6:39:59 PM)
quote: Basically...does the domme need to be smarter than the submissive in order to retain respect? i sure hope not!! heather is a lot smarter than me in most ways. hannah lynn

BonesFromAsh -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/16/2011 9:31:30 PM)
I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to respond...and what interesting responses there are. I've just done an eight hour shift and I'm completely fried mentally so I'll have to come back to this tomorrow. I would, however, like to draw attention to this little gem from Peon in the hope that it'll become one of sunny's "Quote of the Day".... quote: For me to retain my respect for her, all she has to do is endeavour not to be dickhead. [:D] g'night y'all

Ariane23 -> RE: Respect and Intelligence....outsmart=loss of? (4/17/2011 2:05:09 AM)
He probably would have beat me at chess. But give me a game like Stratego where your strategy is hidden, and he wouldn't have a chance. Making judgement by a single game shows a lack of intellect himself, no cognitive thinking power. I have an IQ of 169, but I suck at chess. To answer the real question though, I need someone with a certain level of intelligence to take an interest. We don't have to be exactly even, but we need to be able to relate. Intelligence level is only one factor, things like common interests feature in as well.

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