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RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 8:31:55 AM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
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quote:

Do others perceptions really have a bearing on who you are? Does it matter what others percieve you as? I am asking about your individual perception, although you may have hit on something....How many people need to say the "same thing "about you until you look at it as a possible "reality"? Very good post, I appreciated reading it as well.


Sartrian question of the 'Other'; we are defined by how the other sees us but we cannot ever know what the other sees...
I have been known before to play with other's perceptions; I do not play as much at this age; not worth my energy and have lost most of my desire to hurt for hurting's sake...still, for the most part; people I don't know, am not close to me, have little affect on me; though they can have a strong affect on my situation (ie pulled over by a cop, employer, etc) those close to me; are kept at a minimum, easier to  kee[ track of that way...there are some I am not close to but they have shown me enough to respect their opinion, at least until they fuck with me...and there are some, though never intended, seem to stay an influence, even when not wanted...those are the catalyst to learn more about myself.

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to thegreymistress)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 8:39:47 AM   
thegreymistress


Posts: 56
Joined: 9/9/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

Sartrian question of the 'Other'; we are defined by how the other sees us but we cannot ever know what the other sees...
I have been known before to play with other's perceptions; I do not play as much at this age; not worth my energy and have lost most of my desire to hurt for hurting's sake...still, for the most part; people I don't know, am not close to me, have little affect on me; though they can have a strong affect on my situation (ie pulled over by a cop, employer, etc) those close to me; are kept at a minimum, easier to  kee[ track of that way...there are some I am not close to but they have shown me enough to respect their opinion, at least until they fuck with me...and there are some, though never intended, seem to stay an influence, even when not wanted...those are the catalyst to learn more about myself.

C

How do you pllay with anothers perceptions if you know not what they see? Can we bring this back to perceptions of oneself? Granted your insight is wonderful and tasty as well *licks her lips*  am more looking for the perspective angle at this point....

(in reply to CERCKL)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 10:00:49 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreymistress
How do you pllay with anothers perceptions if you know not what they see?

We make good guesses.  This is how we know how to make a "good first impression" on people- we make really good guesses as to what that will entail and how that person will perceive us.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 12:16:02 PM   
thegreymistress


Posts: 56
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		So I take it just as there is no one set definition for perceptions there are no certain answers from the perception of the human mind. So if perception is ever changing based on "new" information gleaned from the world or from self.How is it that one gives one sided opinions based on a "limited,changing" perception? How can one really define themselves by that in which changes? Are there people that somehow evolved enough tonot use perspective or is it a part of how we live in life and is it seen as a useful tool?

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RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 12:36:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreymistress
So if perception is ever changing based on "new" information gleaned from the world or from self.How is it that one gives one sided opinions based on a "limited,changing" perception?

Perception actually rarely changes in any significant way as people get older.  It becomes more and more difficult to yank someone out of a certain perspective as they age.  If they are lucky, they've been taught how to change the focus of their perspective by that time, but few actually have.  Even then, by a certain level of experience, it's rare that anything NEW will come along that would require someone's perspectives to change to any serious degree.

quote:

How can one really define themselves by that in which changes? Are there people that somehow evolved enough tonot use perspective or is it a part of how we live in life and is it seen as a useful tool?

I think there are people who are skilled enough to see beyond specific perspectives. 

Your question of how we can define "self" if "self" is ever changing is an excellent one.  And one that has no clear final answer. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 1:39:47 PM   
CERCKL


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Joined: 3/4/2006
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quote:

Your question of how we can define "self" if "self" is ever changing is an excellent one.  And one that has no clear final answer. 


Again, I would submit that the definition of the self is somewhat misguided; most philisophical studies assume that the self is the cause of individual consciousness, whereas I believe that the self is the patterns of consciousness which we construct to fit within the parameters of being consciousness and material...though I am an 'individual' I believe my consciousness is part of Consciousness; goes back to vibrations, patterns, energy...can I expand who I am? By definition yes, part of me is my relationships with others, my house, my physical space, etc.
All of these as well as many others define who I 'am'.
Am I 'Dominant', yes, because that is my definition, but again we are back to labels and that which I choose to accept, deny, process...time for me to go back and re-read The Holographic Universe. Thank you for the prodding, it has been quite awhile since I have had an opportunity to participate in intelligent discourse with others, and I am out of practice.

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 1:48:04 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Nothing that *I* am not the one who started this direction :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL
Again, I would submit that the definition of the self is somewhat misguided; most philisophical studies assume that the self is the cause of individual consciousness

Hmm not sure what you mean by "most."  Concepts of "self" are pretty widely varied (and a few off the wall) in philosophy.

quote:

whereas I believe that the self is the patterns of consciousness which we construct to fit within the parameters of being consciousness and material..

What's your definition of "pattern of consciousness"?

How do we construct this?  When?  If we have not created a pattern, does that mean there is no "self"?  For example an infant?

What are the parameteres of being consciousness and material?

quote:

though I am an 'individual' I believe my consciousness is part of Consciousness; goes back to vibrations, patterns, energy...can I expand who I am? By definition yes, part of me is my relationships with others, my house, my physical space, etc.

By what definition?  Your definition doesn't define much...

How are all of those things part of who you are?  How are those external things somehow part of your internal consciousness?

quote:

time for me to go back and re-read The Holographic Universe.

Ah good book.

quote:

 Thank you for the prodding, it has been quite awhile since I have had an opportunity to participate in intelligent discourse with others, and I am out of practice.

C

My questions here do not reflect any of my personal ideals or definitions.  They are merely from a severely philosophical scrutinizing perspective. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CERCKL)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 1:55:28 PM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline 		Well, actually, it's quite simple.
I am a male; I was born that way, it is how I perceive myself to be, and nothing in 'life' shaped me to become one.
I am a sadist. I was not born this way, but it is how I perceive myself to be; and while I can say that there are no actual events in my life that shaped me into one, I can say that as time went on and society changed, my perception of myself as one became more grounded.

_____________________________

Chris



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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 1:59:30 PM   
thegreymistress


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Joined: 9/9/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TxBadMan

Well, actually, it's quite simple.
I am a male; I was born that way, it is how I perceive myself to be, and nothing in 'life' shaped me to become one.
I am a sadist. I was not born this way, but it is how I perceive myself to be; and while I can say that there are no actual events in my life that shaped me into one, I can say that as time went on and society changed, my perception of myself as one became more grounded.

Ok, so male first off. What defines you as a male? What does that mean to you? ( a reason I mention this is some people classify their sexuality into maleness or other things)
Sadist same questions insert sadist for male

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 3:16:34 PM   
thegreymistress


Posts: 56
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		In what way do you see the definition of self as being misguided? What is your definition of self?  I ,personally think I understand most of what you are saying. Others however , may not.....Perhaps, coming and redefining as your schedule permits ...I do appreciate all the feedback, it gives me food for thought.

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RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 3:44:44 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreymistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

Sartrian question of the 'Other'; we are defined by how the other sees us but we cannot ever know what the other sees...
I have been known before to play with other's perceptions; I do not play as much at this age; not worth my energy and have lost most of my desire to hurt for hurting's sake...still, for the most part; people I don't know, am not close to me, have little affect on me; though they can have a strong affect on my situation (ie pulled over by a cop, employer, etc) those close to me; are kept at a minimum, easier to  kee[ track of that way...there are some I am not close to but they have shown me enough to respect their opinion, at least until they fuck with me...and there are some, though never intended, seem to stay an influence, even when not wanted...those are the catalyst to learn more about myself.

C

How do you play with anothers perceptions if you know not what they see? Can we bring this back to perceptions of oneself? Granted your insight is wonderful and tasty as well *licks her lips*  am more looking for the perspective angle at this point....


Playing with how others precieve you is very very easy. I can appear uptight and stand-offish. I can appear to be a ditzy dumb blonde, I can appear to be a serious scholar. I can apear to be a kinky sex fiend (my favorite in certain company hehe)
People will precieve you as the person you show them you are.

< Message edited by akisha -- 5/10/2006 3:45:34 PM >

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 4:00:27 PM   
thegreymistress


Posts: 56
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		So if you give off the aire of a ditzy blonde or any number of other aspects of self,and another makes an impression of you, then does that mean their perception of you will not change? Does that mean you  are then labeled as an aspect of yourself versus another seeing you from the perspective of you as a whole? Is there even a "you as a whole"? Or are people made up of perspectives/sides of themselves?

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 8:14:17 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		The longer people know you the more sides of you they will see and realize make up  your personality and person. There fore they can base their persecption of you on a number of different asspects. Someone that sees you once at a function, at the mall, only at work etc will tend to only see vertain sides of you and there fore precieve you in that light.

The questions you are trying to ask are way too varied to ever get a single answer that anyone else will consider correct.

Very few people if any will ever see the "whole" you for we act certain ways in certain situations. Do you think I let the 45 men i work with know that I'm a sumbissive? Good god no!!

We make flash opinions on people from what we see of them at the times we see them. Like i said above the more time spent with another the deep you they will see. Many of my friends that I've just started to admit to that I'm into BDSM are totally shocked to discouver I am a submissive and not a Dominant. For that is the side of me they have always seen. The incontrol, take charge leader. Those that know me well, realize that it is submissiveness is very much apart of my personality
*** example.  my best friend was with me when i saw a palm reader at a fair a couple months ago. I love that sort of thing cause it's fun and harmless. The Reader says, I'm soo sorry to say but you were a slave in your last life. My gf pipes up and says " ya so what's different now?"  LOL ****

How we view others, How we view ourselves and how others view us is a constantly changing and evolving thing. For we are never the same person two days in a row. We learn, we change, we evolve daily, hell hourly. Our base nature usually stays fairly constant but little things about us shift and change all the time. So ofcourse others views will change as well.

You'll never find a canned answer to this question for the answers are as individualistic as the people that will take the time to answer and the ones that will browes this thread and go, "yaaaa whatever".




< Message edited by akisha -- 5/10/2006 8:16:53 PM >

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to thegreymistress)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 9:16:13 PM   
thegreymistress


Posts: 56
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		  very well said....I am glad I am not looking for a canned answer. I am merely looking to see how many similaraties I can find in the variations. For the most part it works. I deeply appreciate your thought and insight as well as the others who put thought and insight here......gives me hope that my quest for  intelligent discourse can happen in all sorts of arenas....

(in reply to akisha)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 9:50:03 PM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
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quote:

Hmm not sure what you mean by "most."  Concepts of "self" are pretty widely varied (and a few off the wall) in philosophy.


"most"...as in majority; okay, I am referring essentially to Western European and American philosophy here; and I do recognize that the definition of self itself ends up quite varied, but again I would hold that most within this parameter accept that the self is the intial cause of consciousness with in...this concept of seperation can be traced to Middle Eastern tribes coming up with the concept of self being seperate from God up through the Existentialists holding that the individual is responsible for itself (yes, that was as far as my academic studies went before I left college...I am certain that the tradition continued past the late 1940s). This dichotomy was most blatantly demonstrated by Descartes, which was actually more of an attempt to be an ontological discourse than just an attempt to define the self...as far as BDSM, some of the writings of Nietzsche can be entertaining...and you will have to excuse my rustiness; a topic I haven't really spent much focus on since leaving school almost twenty years ago.

quote:

What's your definition of "pattern of consciousness"?

How do we construct this?  When?  If we have not created a pattern, does that mean there is no "self"?  For example an infant?

What are the parameteres of being consciousness and material? 


Patterns...I would hold are just that patterns, i.e. repeated, identifiable, definitions...Does an infant have a sense of self? Ask one...I'ld be curious to know. I would hold that potentially not; the development of the areas of the brain which analyzes has not developed...and the infant is a pattern of behaviors; is there consciousness, yes, just like in any life but there are varying degrees of consciousness and not all consciousness is 'self-aware'. How do we construct this??? Well, if I knew that then I would be Cooler than Jesus...I hold that this is done as a function of the brain; the mind is obviously not consciousness but I suggest that perhaps it is a conduit for it...one cannot slice the brain and find the self but one can identify the different neurological paths which tend to be activated with thought. Is the neurological reactions thought or just traces of the paths which thoughts take within the material? The parameters of material and consciousness? Again back to the neurological...also, I would propose that the concept of ourselves, within our body is just one way of experiencing or defining this at this time; our mind cannot tell the difference between 'conscious' thought and dream thought and so the definition again gets caught with in the question.

quote:

By what definition?  Your definition doesn't define much...

How are all of those things part of who you are?  How are those external things somehow part of your internal consciousness? 


A definition wasn't actually given...which would be why my definition didn't define much. Though I suppose we could return to the definition as back to ourself recreating ourselves through the continual act of defining ourselves. What do I mean by that? Return to perception again; I experience a relationship breaking up, how do I react to this? The definition changes; first I am broken-hearted, bitter, angry, sad, defining myself through emotions felt; emotions being neurochemical reactions within this body which are then assessed and defined while I am experiencing them; my memory of the relationship is defined, judged and redefined...she was the best thing that ever happened to me; what's wrong with me why did she leave; she a rotten bitch from hell and I hope she dies a painful, extended death which stays with her through the afterlife, etc, etc...same experience, different judgements...until I meet another and again my memories are reconstructed again...
As for how the external is a reflection of myself, I thought that was pretty self-evident; how I choose my surroundings, the people around me, my interactions, manner of dress, etc, all of these are external manifestations to how I choose to define myself. Who I believe I am. My focus is as big of a part of me as my desire to drink strong Turkish coffee or participate in intellectual masturbation.

quote:

  My questions here do not reflect any of my personal ideals or definitions.  They are merely from a severely philosophical scrutinizing perspective. 


There are twelve step programs for this now...first, you have to be willing to admit that you do have a problem :-)

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 9:52:13 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think I have fully grasped the concept of this question...

I am comprised of many components/variables, and can piece together any or all of these components at any time to be what I feel like being or need to be at that moment in time without being untrue to my whole self.

How I perceive myself in society can be completely different than how I percieve myself in general.  If society changes, I may perceive myself differently within it, but how I view myself likely won't change.

I see myself as honest, caring towards other, very feminine, intelligent and capable, open-minded yet impatient, with the desire to find pleasure in whatever I am doing and have as much control over my present environment as possible.  These are things that are at my core and never leave me no matter where I am or which variables (ones for mother mode, relationship mode, kinky mode, student, boss or co-worker mode, etc.) I decide I need to/want to use at any given time, but nothing but all components combined can define who I am as a whole or how I perceive myself.  

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 9:52:13 PM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

  very well said....I am glad I am not looking for a canned answer. I am merely looking to see how many similaraties I can find in the variations. For the most part it works. I deeply appreciate your thought and insight as well as the others who put thought and insight here......gives me hope that my quest for  intelligent discourse can happen in all sorts of arenas....


Patterns again...and your addition to the mix?

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to thegreymistress)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 10:39:04 PM   
DigitBox


Posts: 154
Joined: 3/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreymistress

This is my first thread and I wanted to ask everyone how they feel perceptions shape their world and themselves as people, as a label, as a society, culture or whatever else the people out here use to identify themselves and how perceptions fit in to that. I define perception as a point of view. Basically, am looking for whatever perceptions those around are willing to share and how the perception was formed in their opinion. Thank You all for your time in this.....


I tend to work to ensure that people don't have false perceptions of who I am, when I'm not too busy pulling the wool over their eyes to ensure they don't learn my secrets.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: perceptions - 5/10/2006 10:53:16 PM   
thegreymistress


Posts: 56
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		*smiles* I can appreciate that sentiment

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: perceptions - 5/11/2006 4:31:58 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreymistress

Thank you twice happy for posting. From my past I too understand the generalization of an old school biker and their old lady....what does the labels you used mean to you. I mean if someone who had never seen or heard of a biker wanted to know how you percieved yourself how would you define you.



Being a druid means to me I am a respecter of live, a believer in the fact that everything from the smallest microbe to the largest planet is here for a reason and we may learn from it.

It means I believe in the natural order of things; I will go out of my way to remove an unwanted bug from the house (Mistress is phobic) without injury, yet birds eat bugs and cats eat birds and that is right also.

Being a biker means to me I have tasted the wind and cannot live without it.

It means i know the glory of a drunken sunrise coming up over the hills listening to the gentle thunder of my ride while doing 90 miles an hour laughing out loud thanking the universe for yet another day to marvel at the intricacies she has wrought.

It means there are others at my side sharing my exquisite pleasure at this moment.

It means I hold honor to be vital to my existence, it is without price, it weighs more than gold and is more valuable than diamonds, yet is lighter than air when worn as your cloak.

It means my word and the word of those around me is to be and will be kept irregardless of price or circumstance.

It means I will always have a brother, mother, sister, friend I can count on, some one will stop if I am broken down on side of road to lend me a hand, a part or at least another body to add the word “fuck” when I need it most.

It means I will always be a brother, a mother, a sister, a friend.

It means I will never go hungry or homeless, bikers do not allow brothers of two wheels and wind to go without, even if all they can do is share your hunger or the open sky for a roof.

To be a bikers old lady means I have been closely scrutinized by one of these marvelous creatures we call bikers, these modern day knights on their iron horses, and have been found worthy to grace their side.

It means I am so priceless in my womanhood to them that nothing less than having me as their property will satisfy the desire in their soul.

To be a slave means to me that I have been taken possession of, that I am owned, held without compromise. That I will be loved, protected, brought to a fuller growth, cherished, cared for in the way you may only care for something that you own.

It means I will give back that love, that I will serve to the fullest of my abilities, that I will expand those abilities. That I will care for, cherish and obey the one whose collar I am in from love and for love, never from fear.

It means I have offered and been given trust, ultimate soul baring trust. It means my owners have looked at me, all that is me and want to hold the total of me as their own.

It means I have looked at the total of all that they are and found them to be worthy of holding my trust, my being, my soul.



_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to thegreymistress)
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