RE: Evolution vs. Religion

RE: Evolution vs. Religion (Full Version)

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geilematz -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 9:21:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why does it have to be an "Atheist vs Theist"? because nobody oviously cares any more about what this chat once was about most of - no not you but most - seem to have some serious religious trouble ... very serious indeed ... seems to have something to do with the climate in the US because "foreigners" seem to be rather immune against it, and I hope it stays that way ... and no I wont pray for you because it wont help - use your brains for thinking

Edwynn -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 9:40:12 AM)
She is so cute. Righteous indignation in its flower.

tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 9:43:57 AM)
You do enjoy demeaning others at every chance, dont you Edy.

Edwynn -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 9:49:33 AM)
Lieber geile, You could actually introduce something positive in your cause as an actual contribution rather than just intermittent sniping, to the extent that you are capable of saying anything beyond recommending the second grade reading book of Darwin.

tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 9:50:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geilematz quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why does it have to be an "Atheist vs Theist"? because nobody oviously cares any more about what this chat once was about most of - no not you but most - seem to have some serious religious trouble ... very serious indeed ... seems to have something to do with the climate in the US because "foreigners" seem to be rather immune against it, and I hope it stays that way ... and no I wont pray for you because it wont help - use your brains for thinking I believe you are saying that other countries do not have this problem. Im almost envious of that fact.

tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 9:53:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn You could actually introduce something positive in your cause as an actual contribution rather than just intermittent snipping, to the extent you are capable of saying anything beyond recommending the second grade reading book of Darwin. She offered her opinion... Im sure you are not saying she isnt entitled to her opinion, or that she should not be allowed to offer such on a message board, Edy. If that were the case, that you are suggesting her opinion is less important than yours because she supports religious thought or expresses it... then we would have to look at the expression of freedom of speech... something both sides of the religion issue have utilized for years to express opinions.

geilematz -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 10:02:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn You could actually introduce something positive in your cause as an actual contribution rather than just intermittent sniping, to the extent that you are capable of saying anything beyond recommending the second grade reading book of Darwin. I gave it up long ago although the subject interested me ... but it looks as if you and me were the only ones who had read Darwin - just to start a discussion about it ... instead I see here hundreds of posts about something completely different ... so all there is left - for me at least - to quote John Cleese "and now for something completely different"

Edwynn -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 10:11:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn If we get to the issue of logic, I've not yet seen the logic (in this thread or anywhere else) that would support the notion that measurement of physical phenomena is to be the indication or measure of what is inherently a non-physical phenomenon. A person on the Atheist vs. Theist group on another site said something similar; "It is a matter of faith to assume that everything in the Universe can be successfully subjected to the lens of rational and scientific inquiry. It is also a matter of faith to assume that not everything can." An interesting 'thought experiment' either way, no? I'm not taking a side on this issue, just bringing to attention the various 'understandings' that could be obtained in the process. I understand the sundry diatribes against 'religion,' even if the hostility in that venture overlooks the good charity and efforts springing from some of that in r/l. My own estimation is that the disturbances and distortions caused thereby are a result of power seeking power, whatever avenue was available in the era.

Edwynn -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 10:33:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geilematz quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn You could actually introduce something positive in your cause as an actual contribution rather than just intermittent sniping, to the extent that you are capable of saying anything beyond recommending the second grade reading book of Darwin. I gave it up long ago although the subject interested me ... but it looks as if you and me were the only ones who had read Darwin - just to start a discussion about it ... instead I see here hundreds of posts about something completely different ... so all there is left - for me at least - to quote John Cleese "and now for something completely different" Danke, geile. I knew you were better than this. This process of the earth is ongoing, and yes, it is funny how we humans take what has transpired in the last 200 or last 20,000 or 200,000 years as meaning anything in the course of the planet. That is just a blink of an eye in geology. And as if our beliefs could affect any of that. But people from the earliest days have felt that there might be something 'non-physical' to do with what started or maybe just held forth all that we think we know by sensory observation and cogitation 'dabei.' (thereby, for English folks) I know that considerations of the earliest peoples are readily dismissed by scholars by way of their constant harping on 'pagan belief,' etc., but I overlook their silly 'explanations' and rather look for peoples who knew how to make their way in the world with out war, which, in contravention to much of what we are 'taught,' actually has existed in the world at various times, even with out war. And even occasionally with spiritual beliefs.

thishereboi -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 11:43:39 AM)
nm

thishereboi -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 11:45:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why does it have to be an "Atheist vs Theist"? I would guess the same reason he seems to make anything political into left vs right.

tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 11:53:25 AM)
I just dont get it. Its like some are complaining about religion... yet not seeing their complaining is no better than what they are complaining about.

thishereboi -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 12:04:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I just dont get it. Its like some are complaining about religion... yet not seeing their complaining is no better than what they are complaining about. Not sure, but it's to beautiful a day to worry about. The parks calling. Have a good weekend[:)]

jlf1961 -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 12:06:45 PM)
It seems to me that everyone is trying to get the other side to change their mind, regardless of what side it is.

lickenforyou -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 1:13:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 It seems to me that everyone is trying to get the other side to change their mind, regardless of what side it is. No. I, as an atheist, just want theist to see that they believe in a deity, or a spirit, or "there must be something" simply because thinking that way feels good. Religion or spirituality is a coping mechanism. The human brain and the universe and whatever is beyond the known universe is amazing and intriguing enough for me. Even if we were to discover that everything we see was intelligently designed we would then have to search for what designed the designer. It is a mind boggling endeavor and to think you already know is self limiting.I think that the stress of not knowing is too much for some people and that is why spirituality evolved in us.

paulmcuk -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 1:37:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lickenforyou I think that the stress of not knowing is too much for some people and that is why spirituality evolved in us. That kind of ties in with my theory about what is behind the recent upswing in Bilbical literalism. For a long time, religion and science bumped along ok (Galileo notwithstanding) and religion adapted to the new reality (both the RC church and Church of England, to name but two, accommodated evolution and declared Genesis allegorical). But that was when science was understandable. Gravity, laws of motion, electricity etc. The man in the street might not have been able to come up with it, but he could more or less get the basic idea when explained to him. But then the universe got too big for the human brain to comprehend and science went quantum. Even scientists admitted they couldn't really really understand it, let alone explain it. The man in the street feels that he no longer has any chance of understanding the universe so, rather than feel stupid, he puts his faith in a book written thousands of years ago by numerous hands, translated, selectively edited and translated again. Just my personal theory of course. All are free to poke holes.

DarkestDezirez -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 1:48:42 PM)
Well, this thread certainly shows how evolution works. As for proving whether God does or does not exist - it's irrelevant. The very definition of faith is: belief in the absence of proof. The true believer does not need proof and the non-believer will never have a proof that satisfies them. The problems start (and, again, this thread illustrates the principle) when one side tries to convince the other that their view is the absolute truth. Yoo hoo -- ain't gonna happen. The real problems (like wars, stake-burnings, uncontrolled food fights, etc.) occur when one side tries to force its views on the other. That's like trying to teach a pig to dance -- you're going to get frustrated and the pig's just going to get annoyed. The better question to ask is: why does one side feel the need to convince the other? Edited to add: this isn't really a "reply to lickenforyou" -- I'm not sure why that appears in my post; I didn't put it there. (Maybe God did ... tee hee.)

rulemylife -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 2:38:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkestDezirez Well, this thread certainly shows how evolution works. As for proving whether God does or does not exist - it's irrelevant. The very definition of faith is: belief in the absence of proof. The true believer does not need proof and the non-believer will never have a proof that satisfies them. The problems start (and, again, this thread illustrates the principle) when one side tries to convince the other that their view is the absolute truth. Yoo hoo -- ain't gonna happen. The real problems (like wars, stake-burnings, uncontrolled food fights, etc.) occur when one side tries to force its views on the other. That's like trying to teach a pig to dance -- you're going to get frustrated and the pig's just going to get annoyed. The better question to ask is: why does one side feel the need to convince the other? Edited to add: this isn't really a "reply to lickenforyou" -- I'm not sure why that appears in my post; I didn't put it there. (Maybe God did ... tee hee.) We again revert back to this notion that non-believers are trying to convert anyone into believing anything. You said it yourself: The very definition of faith is: belief in the absence of proof. How does a rational person believe in what cannot be proven?

Rule -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 3:01:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lickenforyou I think that the stress of not knowing is too much for some people and that is why spirituality evolved in us. This statement indicates and / or suggests that 1. You do not comprehend the evolution algorithm, and 2. apparently the spirituality function is lacking in you, and 3. apparently the spirituality awareness gen occurs in two forms: one dominant and the other recessive, which in the latter case results in a rudimentary or totally absent manifestation of the phenotype.

Rule -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (5/7/2011 3:03:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkestDezirez The real problems (like wars, stake-burnings, uncontrolled food fights, etc.) occur when one side tries to force its views on the other. I do not consider that a problem. Peace is evil.

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