RE: Evolution vs. Religion

RE: Evolution vs. Religion (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Arpig -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 7:38:39 AM)
quote: it is clear when you look at the Nautilus that it have evolutionary bonds to both octopus and snails, Actually they are utterly unrelated to snails...but your point is well made, I'm just a geek, and due to my son's voracious appetite for information I know a lot about a lot of things I have no actual interest in.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 8:24:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather quote: but the OP stated her belief on an open forum and could not justify that belief. others who have followed her have also not been able to justify their belief. i'm sorry, "i just know its true" has no validity without some proof. without evidence, its delusion. as i said a long while ago. if you don't want the flaws in your irrational beliefs pointed out, then keep those beliefs to yourself. but go ahead and believe that i am frothing at the mouth, kicking my feet and am outraged by the remarks of anonymous online entities if you want. just like the belief in a deity it has no basis in reality. i've said it before, and i'm sure i will have to say it again: if you don't like what i say, or the way i say it; tough shit. your sensitivities are of no concern to me. they are your affair, not mine. hannah lynn Because although I stated my beliefs, the question wasn't about what you believe. It was a SPECIFIC question about a SPECIFIC scientific thing. If you would take the time to get off your high horse and read something, you actually might find out that you aren't the "know it all" bright kid you think you are. What I see in your posts, including the one about how you went through more than anyone can imagine (by the way around here, that is highly unlikely), and the anger you spout, not just here but as an undercurrent in nearly ALL your posts (which are not that many), is an angry child who suffer some traumatic events and never got over them, so now she is mad at everyone. By the way that isn't a religiously based opinion. It is a psychologically based one.

DomKen -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 8:58:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: it is clear when you look at the Nautilus that it have evolutionary bonds to both octopus and snails, Actually they are utterly unrelated to snails...but your point is well made, I'm just a geek, and due to my son's voracious appetite for information I know a lot about a lot of things I have no actual interest in. Actually snails and Nautilus are both molluscs just like octupi. While they diverged quite a long time ago they are not unrelated.

liks2plzlf -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 9:15:16 AM)
Everyone of the predictions are in there, you wouldn't know cause you never studied the bible. If you watch the news, or look at some history, you would know all of those things have taken place. The bible fills us in on many of the things about to take place on earth.

DomKen -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 9:20:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: liks2plzlf Not sure exactly what your saying I'm saying the so called prophecies you claim have been fulfilled are not clearly enough worded to ever believe they aren't coming true. And the book they are found in is of completely unknow provenance, as is most of the bible actually.

DomKen -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 9:23:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: liks2plzlf Everyone of the predictions are in there, you wouldn't know cause you never studied the bible. If you watch the news, or look at some history, you would know all of those things have taken place. The bible fills us in on many of the things about to take place on earth. I've read the entire book cover to cover and none of the prophecies you claim have come true are even in the book. You have to add words and ascribe meaning to passages far beyond the plain wording.

vincentML -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 10:16:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Ah vincent... so nice to see you posting again. [:D] [:)] Thank you so much, tazzygirl. Good to read your posts again as well.

vincentML -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 10:29:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: liks2plzlf Everyone of the predictions are in there, you wouldn't know cause you never studied the bible. If you watch the news, or look at some history, you would know all of those things have taken place. The bible fills us in on many of the things about to take place on earth. The predictions you indicate as coming true are all retrospective and interpretive. You ignore the repeated faiure of specifically predicted End Time dates throughout history. People have given away all their goods, gone to the mountain top to await the End, but then disappointed to find yet another day has dawned without Apocalypse trudged back down the slope to their humdrum lives sans worldly goods. Or in a more recent case committed mass suicide to greet the space ship that was to take them away. *Sighsss . . . waiting for the Rapture and it never comes. Drat!

vincentML -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 10:40:11 AM)
quote: I do not see why religion and evolution have to be enemies, it is clear when you look at apes and bones found we have evolved from them, it is clear when you look at the Nautilus that it have evolutionary bonds to both octopus and snails, however I do not think this wonderful, beautiful world could be without some intelligence behind it. I think the Gods created us by guiding the hand of evolution. There you have the essential disagreement. Your belief in the doctrine of intelligent design is quite opposite the model of self-generating, unguided Evolution by adaptation to Environment. The two ideas are mutually exclusive despite what you may believe or not believe. Or you do not understand the mechanism of Darwinian Evolution. Additionally, if you wish to give the gods credit for this "beautiful world" then should you not point the finger of shame and blame at them for natural events as earthquakes and tsunamis which have had such devastatiing effects upon innocent human life?

HannahLynHeather -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 11:27:29 AM)
quote: you wouldn't know cause you never studied the bible. and i assume you say this based on the fact that i do not see the same meaning in it as you do? look, go ahead and believe whatever strange shit you want, just don't expect me to take you seriously as an intelligent person if this is the crap you chose to believe. hannah lynn

tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 1:13:25 PM)
quote: There you have the essential disagreement. Your belief in the doctrine of intelligent design is quite opposite the model of self-generating, unguided Evolution by adaptation to Environment. The two ideas are mutually exclusive despite what you may believe or not believe. Or you do not understand the mechanism of Darwinian Evolution. Additionally, if you wish to give the gods credit for this "beautiful world" then should you not point the finger of shame and blame at them for natural events as earthquakes and tsunamis which have had such devastatiing effects upon innocent human life? I dont know, vincent. Though I do not believe in "God" I can see the point in that argument. Darwin gave his theory. And his theory has extreme merits. But something causes changes. I wouldnt say the "Gods created us by guiding the hand of evolution", but I can see the plausibility of using that idea. Its definitely not what the Bible teaches... but... As we should all know, the Bible taught what was acceptable at that time, through limited knowledge of science and evolution.

Ishtarr -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 1:52:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: I do not see why religion and evolution have to be enemies, it is clear when you look at apes and bones found we have evolved from them, it is clear when you look at the Nautilus that it have evolutionary bonds to both octopus and snails, however I do not think this wonderful, beautiful world could be without some intelligence behind it. I think the Gods created us by guiding the hand of evolution. There you have the essential disagreement. Your belief in the doctrine of intelligent design is quite opposite the model of self-generating, unguided Evolution by adaptation to Environment. The two ideas are mutually exclusive despite what you may believe or not believe. Or you do not understand the mechanism of Darwinian Evolution. Additionally, if you wish to give the gods credit for this "beautiful world" then should you not point the finger of shame and blame at them for natural events as earthquakes and tsunamis which have had such devastatiing effects upon innocent human life? I have no problem with the idea of spirituality, but I am a panentheist more than anything else. The problem I personally have with the Christian-Judeic-Islamic God I have with him personally, and not with the concept of a God. In that tradition, people tend to want to claim that their God is both omnipotent and all-compassionate, and as far as I can tell, that just doesn't jive with the facts of the world. An omnipotent and all-compassionate God would necessarily create the best of all possible worlds for mankind. Look around you people... do you really think that this is the best of all possible worlds that could exist? The world we see around us leads me to believe that God cannot both be omnipotent and all-compassionate. He can be one of those, or neither, but he can't be both at the same time. However, if he's omnipotent he's an asshole-in-the-sky who clearly doesn't give a shit about us. And if he's all-compassionate, we could thank him for caring about us, but it's completely ridiculous to expect any great solutions from him. So as far as the Christian-Judeic-Islamic God goes... I don't like him very much... And if he's the best/only God we've got, I'm still going to refuse to serve him, simple because I highly disagree with most of his methods. If he exists, he happened to have given me the free will that will allow me to disagree with him and turn away form him, so if it was ever proven to me that the Christian-Judeic-Islamic God exists, that's exactly what I'd do. But as far as my own concept of God goes -panentheism- I have absolutely no problem with the idea that there is a driving force behind evolution that we haven't recognized yet... call it God or whatever else you like, but I don't think the universe is a random sequence of nothingness. Though at the same time... I have a hard time believe that God cares about us as individual... "he" has got a whole universe to look after ya know... Ishtar

Arpig -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 2:18:52 PM)
quote: Its definitely not what the Bible teaches... I'm not going to get into a deep discussion of the merits of the bible, but the section of it that deals with this general issue is clearly mythology. If a person truly believes the Genesis story is literal truth...well then my assesment of their basic intelligence will be pretty fucking low.

tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 2:28:20 PM)
quote: I'm not going to get into a deep discussion of the merits of the bible, but the section of it that deals with this general issue is clearly mythology. If a person truly believes the Genesis story is literal truth...well then my assesment of their basic intelligence will be pretty fucking low. I completely agree, Arpig. But, at the time it was written, it was the only theory they had.

Arpig -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 3:17:50 PM)
quote: But, at the time it was written, it was the only theory they had. Actually, it was a myth at the time it was written. It didn't become a theory until much later. And in fact, at the time it was written, creation myths were abundant, every tribe, town and village had its own.

tazzygirl -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 3:24:51 PM)
quote: Actually, it was a myth at the time it was written. It didn't become a theory until much later. And in fact, at the time it was written, creation myths were abundant, every tribe, town and village had its own. by "they" i meant the original writers, Arpig, you are nit picking. And, yes, every society, even lose ones, had a "belief" or theory about the beginning of life. That is one of the definitions of a theory, yes? A belief?

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 3:30:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: t's also important to note that the theory of evolution does not even attempt to address the question of where life came from in the first place - only how it developed once it began. It's a common fallacy for people to argue from the perspective that the two schools of thought conflict with or contradict each other, but the fact is they do not. Evolution vs. intelligent design would be the more accurate opposition. Panda, Isn't intelligent design just an embellished version of creationism? How do you distinguish between them? hi, Vincent. You're right, but they're not necessarily the same thing. Intelligent design is an extension of creationism, but the reverse is not true. Creationism in and of itself does not necessarily contradict evolution. quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Additionally, there are several implicit contradictions between the two models. In the theological model god created a soul as a component of the human being. No room for soul in Evolution. In the theological model consciousness is a function of the soul. In Evolutionary Biology consciousness and thinking are functions of electrochemical circuits. i.e. no ghost in the machine. In the theological model there is hope for everlasting life. In the Evolution Model material life forms die and stay dead. Evolutionary theory does not address in any way the question of souls, or the afterlife, or anything else of that nature. I don't see any area of contradiction here at all, to be honest with you.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 3:33:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Actually, it was a myth at the time it was written. It didn't become a theory until much later. And in fact, at the time it was written, creation myths were abundant, every tribe, town and village had its own. by "they" i meant the original writers, Arpig, you are nit picking. And, yes, every society, even lose ones, had a "belief" or theory about the beginning of life. That is one of the definitions of a theory, yes? A belief? Yes, but it's not the same definition as a scientific theory - which evolution is, and creationism absolutely is not and can never be.

gungadin09 -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 4:28:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig I'm not going to get into a deep discussion of the merits of the bible, but the section of it that deals with this general issue is clearly mythology. If a person truly believes the Genesis story is literal truth...well then my assesment of their basic intelligence will be pretty fucking low. i don't think it's a question of intelligence, per se. i don't assess a person as having low intelligence because they believe the Genesis story is literal truth. i do assess someone as being selfishly political and interested when they deny that evolution is scientifically accepted as the mechanism for biological change over time, and attempt to prohibit the teaching of evolution in science classrooms, because the idea conflicts with their religious beliefs. Also- i'd say the only difference between a "myth" and a "theory" is that a myth is no longer widely believed. i'd be very suprised if all these tribes and villages who each had their own creation myth, believed that they were myths at the time. i think they accepted them as literal truth, not as a model for understanding reality. It's only now, looking back, that we call them myths. The same thing could be said for much of science. Personally, religious people make me nervous, but i try to keep an open mind which is all that i expect in return. Which is why i'm sometimes mystified by the angst that people sometimes display when responding to these issues. pam

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Evolution vs. Religion (4/20/2011 4:32:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gungadin09 Personally, religious people make me nervous, but i try to keep an open mind which is all that i expect in return. Which is why i'm sometimes mystified by the angst that people sometimes display when responding to these issues. For my part, the "angst" and the anger I feel regarding this issue derives from the fact that the religious right is constantly trying to pass laws forcing me to live my life in accordance with their religious beliefs. And I refuse to tolerate it. They can believe anything they like, but they need to keep it out of my life. If they refuse to do that, they're going to get a reaction out of me, and it's not going to be a courteous one. And they have nobody to blame for that but themselves.

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875