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when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/19/2011 6:20:23 PM

softlips76

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Hi all, I'm dealing with a bit of an issue... I am currently being trained by an amazing lady. Our relationship is more that of good friends along w/the D/s dynamic. She has other slaves and the ones I've chatted with seem to adore her, however, they're also male. LOL

She also happens to be training a dominant. When she started training him, their relationship was that of Teacher/Student. She would sub for him to train him properly. I have NEVER liked seeing her in submissive mode. Even before she was my Mistress. Now their relationship has deepened and she is submissive to him almost all the time. I'm not sure she realizes it. It distresses me to see the woman I submit to, the woman who wants me to surrender to her, so submissive. Especially when the person she submits to is someone I have no respect for. Yes I have met him and while his 1st impression was BAD, the rest haven't been much better.

Before anyone brings it up, I have wondered if what I was feeling was jealousy. I don't believe that it is. I love watching her in action with her other subs/slaves. She looks powerful, gorgeous, sexy. As a submissive, she's still beautiful, but when I see her that way, she is not someone I want having control over me.

How do I approach this with her? I do realize that when I do approach this it will mean not only the end of our D/s relationship, but possibly our friendship as well. :(

Post #: 1

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/19/2011 7:16:49 PM

sunshinemiss

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She is a complex person. It's good that you know that you are having difficulties with managing your response to her complexity.

Perhaps you ought to consider not interacting with her when he is around. There are certainly plenty of people who do that when they dislike the husbands of their friends, the kid that makes you crazy but you still want to be friends with the dad, etc. I have friends I like quite a lot - when they haven't been drinking. I choose to not be around them when they drink because they get drunk and beligerent. I don't give up the rest of the relationship, but I don't put myself in a position that makes me uncomfortable. It doesn't mean they are bad people. It just means that in that particular scenario, I don't want to participate.

Why wouldn't you just stay away when he's around if it makes you that uncomfortable?

Also, you may want to take a look at your relationship with her? The way you wrote the above, it looks like she is a "role" to you rather than a person. Nothing wrong with that, but be real about it.

good luck,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 4/19/2011 7:24:36 PM >

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RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/19/2011 7:31:20 PM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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Most excellent advice from sunny, I hope the OP will listen to it.

I understand this particular issue rather well, since I switch. I have had many subs who I dominate tell me "you could never sub, it would just be impossible for a person such as you."

I have also had dominants who I have submitted to tell me, "I don't know why you think you are a dominant, you're a sub, get over yourself."

It's not until someone sees both sides of me that they get the whole package. Some can deal with it, some can not. I can certainly understand a sub being confused at seeing her beloved dominant sub to another. Many feel that being sub to another takes away a person's ability to dominant. I can assure you for me this is not the case. I am a better sub for being domme and a better domme for being sub.

I know those who cannot ever even think of switching get a bit squeaked by this. *I* used to get a bit squeaked by this. I will say don't try to understand it, just realize it is what is, for that person.

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RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/19/2011 7:43:05 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: softlips76

I have NEVER liked seeing her in submissive mode. Even before she was my Mistress. Now their relationship has deepened and she is submissive to him almost all the time. I'm not sure she realizes it.

Greetings,

The above portion really jumped out at me. my first question is whether you were aware of her submissive tendencies before you agreed to accept training? And secondly, i don't believe for one moment that you actually think this woman doesn't realize she's yielding to the other person. i think your dislike for him is clouding your judgment on that one. What baffles me most is that you've indicated she's a friend who's providing training that is clearly for your benefit. Why are her other liaisons of any concern if she's meeting the expectations and things you've agreed upon? And given the fact that this isn't your owner, but merely a trainer as noted. i can't fathom why you're taking it this personal unless your feelings have gone beyond the parameters that have been set. In short, her submission isn't your problem in the long run unless you have an innate desire to belong to her.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

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Post #: 4

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/19/2011 9:27:02 PM

HannahLynHeather

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i had in mind a reply, but reading through the thread, i see that porcelaine has said it all, and rather more elegantly than i ever could.

hannah lynn

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i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/19/2011 9:40:11 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

i had in mind a reply, but reading through the thread, i see that porcelaine has said it all, and rather more elegantly than i ever could.

Thank you for the compliment.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

Post #: 6

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 12:58:42 AM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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I think you've simply learnt that you can't submit to a switch. You want the one you submit to to live up to your ideal fantasy of being powerful. Nothing wrong with that, but what we want people to be and what they actually are don't always match up. Some people can't submit to switches, it threatens their sense of the hierarchy when they see their dominant being submissive to someone else, a bit like losing respect for your boss when you see them grovelling in front of their boss, you realise they're not so uber powerful after all. It doesn't bother me to submit to a switch, if anything I think they gain understanding and sensitivity of the submissive role, and they can 'read' me better when I'm being the submissive one, but a lot of people just can't do it, or if they do it, they can't watch it (and many Dom/mes won't let their submissives watch them submit because they fear it challenges the idealised image of them too much).

I don't think you need to lose a friendship over this. Just sit down and admit that perhaps submitting to a switch is not for you. If she is that experienced that she can train a Master, I'm sure this will not be an out of the ball park idea for her. Better to part as friends after all she has done for you anyway.

owned xxx

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 7

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 3:53:56 AM

Kana

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I know that if I shifted to submissive it would be the end of our deal. We have defined roles, based on who we are and what we are.
For me to switch to submissive would be tantamount to me changing who I am., which means that the terms of our relationship have been altered as well.
And she would never look at me quite the same, it would effect the way we interact and would certainly impact her trust/faith in me.

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Post #: 8

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 3:57:12 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I know that if I shifted to submissive it would be the end of our deal. We have defined roles, based on who we are and what we are.
For me to switch to submissive would be tantamount to me changing who I am., which means that the terms of our relationship have been altered as well.
And she would never look at me quite the same, it would effect the way we interact and would certainly impact her trust/faith in me.

The domme in question did not switch to submission in the OP's dynamic. She switched with someone else. Apple n oranges, to me at least.

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Post #: 9

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 4:11:54 AM

Kana

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And that might to true for you, but wouldn't work for us.
It's a simple thing-we have defined roles, and that includes the way we view each other.
Were I to be submissive, in any relationship, it would alter the way she views me, and thus would affect our interactions.
Point blank-she would lose respect for me. She likes strong, dominant men, She does not like submissive men (Not implying here that they aren't strong, just saying she doesn't care for men who submit) If she heard me crawling and begging, it would radically alter the way she perceives me, and it would certainly redefine the way we interrelate.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

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Post #: 10

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 4:27:39 AM

softlips76

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Joined: 10/11/2010
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My Mistress would argue that she only submits to train. She will tell anyone and everyone that she is a Domme. She has pointed out to me over and over that she has no desire to submit outside of training. She has become offended when anyone suggests that she "switch" for them and has quickly and firmly put them in their place. Why she has changed for this man, I have no idea.

As far as taking it personally, she wants to own me. She offered me her collar a while back and I told her that I was not yet ready.

I wish I could avoid interacting w/her new Dom "trainee". However, she invites him to the same functions at which she requires my presence. Once, he and I were the only two invited to join her. I did not know until after I arrived that it was to be just us. I am afraid the next step will be to invite him to join our sessions, which I will have to refuse.

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 11

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 4:36:26 AM

sunshinemiss

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It sounds like you have a serious decision to make. good luck.
sunshine

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Post #: 12

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 4:51:23 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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Thank you for the clarification, Kana.

It is my understanding that your sub is very much in the majority. Many subs don't want to see their d-type switching.

This hhmm..not sure I can say it's a bias, this preference has affected my own life as well, from both sides. My current boy is one of the few who has seen both sides of me and can deal with my sub side. Back when I was looking for a dom, many said they could deal with me being a switch with a male sub, their actions failed to convince me.

These are attitudes I have a lot of trouble understanding. Don't get me wrong, I know they are real and valid, but from my side of the fence they do seem a bit closed minded. And I would imagine, conversely, from your side of the fence my stance appears hhmm how shall I phrase this.."too fluid for real stability."

I like this paragraph from OwnedFemale:

I think you've simply learnt that you can't submit to a switch. You want the one you submit to to live up to your ideal fantasy of being powerful. Nothing wrong with that, but what we want people to be and what they actually are don't always match up. Some people can't submit to switches, it threatens their sense of the hierarchy when they see their dominant being submissive to someone else, a bit like losing respect for your boss when you see them grovelling in front of their boss, you realise they're not so uber powerful after all. It doesn't bother me to submit to a switch, if anything I think they gain understanding and sensitivity of the submissive role, and they can 'read' me better when I'm being the submissive one, but a lot of people just can't do it, or if they do it, they can't watch it (and many Dom/mes won't let their submissives watch them submit because they fear it challenges the idealised image of them too much).

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RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 4:56:55 AM

domiguy

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Only out her do we hear such bullshit.

Trainers. What in the fuck is a trainer?

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Post #: 14

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 5:01:58 AM

sunshinemiss

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In Philly, they are shoes.

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Post #: 15

RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 5:17:07 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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A trainer is exactly what it sounds like, someone who trains you, in this case, trains you in the sub side of the kneel. Not that long ago (I'm not that old) it was very often expected that if a person wanted to travel the path to being a Master/Mistress, they should begin by being trained as a submissive. Having insights into the other side of the kneel were considered quite valuable, and still are by some.

About ten years ago I ran across a male dom who wanted to be a Master and felt this sub training was an important part of his path. He had twice weekly sessions with a fem domme, and kept a journal and took pics, which he posted on the web. Although his training consisted of about 12 weeks (if I am remembering correctly) the change in him from his first session to his last was truly amazing.

After this training was complete, he then mentored under a Master who taught him impact play, rope work, etc. Last I heard he was starting to learn the whip.

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RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 5:47:40 AM

DarkSteven

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The only thing I will add to what the OP said, is that she lives in Durango. Lovely mountain town, but a small population and I doubt there's much of a scene there. In other words, the option of dropping this relationship and quickly moving into another one, is not as viable an option.

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RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 6:47:43 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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Many of us need to feel there is a permanent structure in our relationships. And we don't get that with a partner who subs on occasion. It just means we aren't compatible with those who can move more easily between roles as it gets us off balance and anxious.

If The Man today wanted to experience some sensation play, I could deal with him bottoming in a session or two with a pro domme. But I couldn't deal with him having an ongoing personal relationship where he subbed, even without sex being involved. And I couldn't have dealt with it for the first five years or so of the relationship. I just didn't feel secure enough until years had passed.

The other thing is that the op is getting the feeling she's being set up for a three way with this dude. I will say that whenever I've gotten those kinds of vibes, I listen to them. They're never wrong.

I would suggest you tell her that you cannot watch her submit or bottom. That you don't enjoy her dom's company, and that you would prefer to continue to see her at times when she isn't subbing. Do not trash talk the guy she's seeing, that's always a mistake. Make it clear that you and he are oil and water, don't bring her relationship into it.

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RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 7:30:05 AM

LafayetteLady

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I see it as not unusual at all to see someone who is so commanding to you be so submissive to another. You don't want to see their "soft" side like that.

What I don't understand, and admittedly the whole "training" thing is odd to me, is why since she has other subs she "works" with are they not being used for this guy's training? Seems to me that her directing him from a position of power would be better. If she is "playing" submissive to him, but from there telling him what to do, it just sounds kind of stupid to me.

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RE: when your dominant becomes submissive - 4/20/2011 8:51:23 AM

domiguy

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What a farce. I remember when I was trained to date vanilla.

Only douchebags go through training. All it does is make them bigger doucheholes.

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Post #: 20

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