RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (Full Version)

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outhere69 -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/25/2011 3:58:29 PM)

Why would 90% be illegal, when it's been legal before? (not that it would be remotely possible nowadays, btw.)

Shit, when Reagan took over it was 50%, then he took it to 38%.  Now suddenly 28% is an outrageous confiscation and Ryan says it has to come down.

Lots of folks are pissed off because they see the games corporations play, the gaming of hedge fund income, the loopholes millionaires/billionaires use, and the increasing concentration of wealth in a very small percentage of the population.  In the mean time, middle class pay is stagnant for decades even though their productivity increased, jobs are outsourced to countries that no one here can compete with, and you get insurance only if you have a job with benefits....or if you're broke off your ass. 

I see a lot of proposals from republicans that want to cut funding without a single modification on the revenue side (other than the thoroughly disproven supply-side theory).  You can't do it without both in the equation.




DomKen -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/25/2011 4:48:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
And as has been noted over and over again....even if that to 10 percent, which is paying 90% of the tax bill of this country, to give illing sacrifice as was paaying at a 90% rate, they still would not5 cover the debt. And loike it or not, that is not "shared sacrifice" as our "leader" called it, that is illegal confiscation of other;s earnings. Like it or not, Eddie...people are going to have to figure out what they are willing to give up.

Funny how when the top tax rate was over 90% the Republican President had no problem with it and the economy boomed.




Edwynn -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/25/2011 9:17:41 PM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And as has been noted over and over again....even if that to 10 percent, which is paying 90% of the tax bill of this country, to give illing sacrifice as was paaying at a 90% rate, they still would not5 cover the debt. And loike it or not, that is not "shared sacrifice" as our "leader" called it, that is illegal confiscation of other;s earnings. Like it or not, Eddie...people are going to have to figure out what they are willing to give up.




As has been pointed out over and over again and either not understood or willfully ignored, it's not so much the nominal rate as how many loopholes and evasion tactics are available, which the super wealthy take advantage of, but the lowly $300,000/yr. earner cannot. Far worse in this regard are the largest corporations, especially the oil companies, who are far and away the most damaging to the revenue structure both ways. Our taxes used for subsidies, investment schemes that taxpayers pay up to 85% for, all kinds of expenses that taxpayers cover that in other companies the shareholders pay for, depletion allowance, tax credits, the list goes on. On the other side, there's all kinds of environmental costs, of which they pay the first bit and then successfully fend off every effort to pay anymore. The communities and/or taxpayers deal with the rest. And the now perpetual warfare, the low side estimate being $3 trillion so far.

Then there's the whole nature of all those offshore accounts that more and more companies have that means that we can only ascertain some portion of what is missing on that score.

And for those with third grade or better reading comprehension, nobody is saying the poor are paying for this in taxes.The middle and upper middle class and the "lower wealthy" individual earners and the mid-sized and small companies, none of whom can afford the huge lobbying tab required to get the bonanza of tax money that the mega corporations get, are the ones paying. The poor are paying in other ways, not the least of which is overcrowded schools due to all the closings.

Like it or not, giving the latter even more of my earnings ain't gonna create any jobs, but rather cost more jobs as small companies keep dropping out from the economic wrecking done by the largest corporations.


Send the billionaires more of your money if you want, but keep your hands out of my pockets.






CreativeDominant -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 7:28:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
And as has been noted over and over again....even if that to 10 percent, which is paying 90% of the tax bill of this country, to give illing sacrifice as was paaying at a 90% rate, they still would not5 cover the debt. And loike it or not, that is not "shared sacrifice" as our "leader" called it, that is illegal confiscation of other;s earnings. Like it or not, Eddie...people are going to have to figure out what they are willing to give up.

Funny how when the top tax rate was over 90% the Republican President had no problem with it and the economy boomed.

Actually, DomKen...the economy boomed AFTER he cut the tax rate on that top 10 percent...not during.




mnottertail -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 7:33:23 AM)

No causal relationship, the economy 'boomed' several years later. the tax cuts were 1981, no spike until 1987.  I know, I was there, I lived that motherfucker.

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/useconomytimeline/index.html




CreativeDominant -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 7:44:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And as has been noted over and over again....even if that top 10 percent, which is paying 90% of the tax bill of this country, was willing to give willing to give at a 90% rate, they still would not cover the debt. And like it or not, that is not "shared sacrifice" as our "leader" called it, that is illegal confiscation of other;s earnings. Like it or not, Eddie...people are going to have to figure out what they are willing to give up.




As has been pointed out over and over again and either not understood or willfully ignored, it's not so much the nominal rate as how many loopholes and evasion tactics are available, which the super wealthy take advantage of, but the lowly $300,000/yr. earner cannot. Far worse in this regard are the largest corporations, especially the oil companies, who are far and away the most damaging to the revenue structure both ways. Our taxes used for subsidies, investment schemes that taxpayers pay up to 85% for, all kinds of expenses that taxpayers cover that in other companies the shareholders pay for, depletion allowance, tax credits, the list goes on. On the other side, there's all kinds of environmental costs, of which they pay the first bit and then successfully fend off every effort to pay anymore. The communities and/or taxpayers deal with the rest. And the now perpetual warfare, the low side estimate being $3 trillion so far.

Then there's the whole nature of all those offshore accounts that more and more companies have that means that we can only ascertain some portion of what is missing on that score.

And for those with third grade or better reading comprehension, nobody is saying the poor are paying for this in taxes.The middle and upper middle class and the "lower wealthy" individual earners and the mid-sized and small companies, none of whom can afford the huge lobbying tab required to get the bonanza of tax money that the mega corporations get, are the ones paying. The poor are paying in other ways, not the least of which is overcrowded schools due to all the closings.

Like it or not, giving the latter even more of my earnings ain't gonna create any jobs, but rather cost more jobs as small companies keep dropping out from the economic wrecking done by the largest corporations.


Send the billionaires more of your money if you want, but keep your hands out of my pockets.

Hmmm....are you willfully ignoring this?

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2010. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.


In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax for 2010, as long as there are two children younger than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax.

Tax cuts enacted in the past decade have been generous to wealthy taxpayers, too, making them a target for President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress. Less noticed were tax cuts for low- and middle-income families, which were expanded when Obama signed the massive economic recovery package last year.

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners — households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 — paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

"We have 50 percent of people who are getting something for nothing," said Curtis Dubay, senior tax policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation.

you know what...give your money to all the folks who cry out for it and whom Obama failed to mention as needing to share in the sacrifice (as even mnotter noted, cuts DO have to be made and not just in defense....which is paid for with only 3% of the GDP...but in entitlement programs).
"Shared" sacrifice seems to be defined by progressives as "the wealthy share their money with the poor and.the rest of the populace...wellllllllll, they receive it and that's their part of sharing. As for the sacrifice part? No...."




mnottertail -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 10:06:02 AM)

3% of GDP has no meaning regarding anything.  Defense and Security is 50% or more of our budget.

How much is Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security as a percentage of GDP?  Lets not throw around a bunch of crap to make specious arguments.




Edwynn -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 10:20:53 AM)


~ edit for proper 'reply to' ~




Edwynn -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 10:37:04 AM)





Fine let's cut, but let's start from the top for a change, not from the bottom, and start with the corporations first. Cut all the things already listed multiple times on this subject, which if you didn't keep ignoring then why do you keep harping on the lowest strata of society as being the problem?

The lower and middle class are not setting  new records year after year for all time record profits; the ones taking the most tax money of any other industry sector are. Three letters, starts with an "O".


Not one cut elsewhere until we get that straight first.



PS

I'm going with the FIFO accounting method here; first in, first out.

The low and middle class that got a few nickels, relatively speaking, just now got it. Let them enjoy it 2-3 years while we cut the far more generous breaks the top corporations and the top .01 percent have enjoyed in ever increasing amounts for decades.









Edwynn -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 10:38:15 AM)

~




DomKen -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 10:38:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
And as has been noted over and over again....even if that to 10 percent, which is paying 90% of the tax bill of this country, to give illing sacrifice as was paaying at a 90% rate, they still would not5 cover the debt. And loike it or not, that is not "shared sacrifice" as our "leader" called it, that is illegal confiscation of other;s earnings. Like it or not, Eddie...people are going to have to figure out what they are willing to give up.

Funny how when the top tax rate was over 90% the Republican President had no problem with it and the economy boomed.

Actually, DomKen...the economy boomed AFTER he cut the tax rate on that top 10 percent...not during.


The economy didn't boom from 1952 to 1960?




tazzygirl -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 10:41:27 AM)

I really wish you would quit spouting this lie that a family of four making 50,000 with two children under 17 pays no taxes.


Here's how they did it, according to Deloitte Tax:

The family was entitled to a standard deduction of $11,400 and four personal exemptions of $3,650 apiece, leaving a taxable income of $24,000. The federal income tax on $24,000 is $2,769.

With two children younger than 17, the family qualified for two $1,000 child tax credits. Its Making Work Pay credit was $800 because the parents were married filing jointly.

The $2,800 in credits exceeds the $2,769 in taxes, so the family makes a $31 profit from the federal income tax. That ought to take the sting out of April 15.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/07/20100407notaxes0407.html#ixzz1KeTGrQBM

They paid taxes on that income throughout the year. Just because they have no liability doesnt mean they didnt pay taxes.

quote:

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education.


A bullshit lie. A family making 50,000 sees taxes, including federal, taken from every check. I assure you they do not get that money back. Where do you think THAT money goes?




Charles6682 -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/26/2011 12:38:24 PM)

Whats really sad in America is when middle class people are paying more in taxes than their rich neighbors down the street.With all the tax loopholes out there,the rich just don't want to pay their fairshare.Of course I am not talking about every rich person either.I do think liberals should realize that because someone has money,does not make them an evil person who only cares about their money.Many rich people do donate to worthy causes.However,there is a culture among some rich folks who think they shouldn't have to pay taxes at all.




CreativeDominant -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/27/2011 7:00:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I really wish you would quit spouting this lie that a family of four making 50,000 with two children under 17 pays no taxes.


Here's how they did it, according to Deloitte Tax:

The family was entitled to a standard deduction of $11,400 and four personal exemptions of $3,650 apiece, leaving a taxable income of $24,000. The federal income tax on $24,000 is $2,769.

With two children younger than 17, the family qualified for two $1,000 child tax credits. Its Making Work Pay credit was $800 because the parents were married filing jointly.

The $2,800 in credits exceeds the $2,769 in taxes, so the family makes a $31 profit from the federal income tax. That ought to take the sting out of April 15.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/07/20100407notaxes0407.html#ixzz1KeTGrQBM

They paid taxes on that income throughout the year. Just because they have no liability doesnt mean they didnt pay taxes.

quote:

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education.


A bullshit lie. A family making 50,000 sees taxes, including federal, taken from every check. I assure you they do not get that money back. Where do you think THAT money goes?
Cite your sources proving it to be a lie. Your feelings that it is a lie don't matter, except to you. They do get that money back...in the form of "child credits" and "earned income credits", etc. Further, paying taxes that are returned to you in the form of "credits" and "rebates" that equal the amount you paid levels things out to zero.

It seems that all you and Ed and others can do is cry about the corporations....I am fine with doing away with most loopholes that many corporations enjoy now. Let's start with one of our leader's favorites....go after G. E..

For all the crying about the wealthy and them not paying taxes, I haven't seen one reliable source cited to disprove the portion of the federal tax debt...cited above. That whole 73% thing.... that they pay.





mnottertail -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/27/2011 7:28:19 AM)

Lets start with the oil industry.  Their subsidies, and credits, and giveaways, and breaks and tax rebates, over the last 150-200 years if allocated to green and alternative would have us off oil dependence in less than 5 years.

Windfall profits tax!!!!!!




tazzygirl -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/27/2011 9:34:09 PM)

quote:

For all the crying about the wealthy and them not paying taxes, I haven't seen one reliable source cited to disprove the portion of the federal tax debt...cited above. That whole 73% thing.... that they pay


If you are pissy about the whining, then go after the whiners.... not me.


My disagreement was with your assertion that the dont pay taxes....

quote:

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education.


Gas tax
Sales tax
Property tax
School tax

All those are earmarked to some extent for roads, education, public safety and infrastructure.. and with the amount of borrowing our government does from social security, we ALL pay for national defense.




Edwynn -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/27/2011 10:47:49 PM)


You perhaps also overlooked the SS and medicare. No refunds or 'profit' from those.


Oh my, are you telling me that our corporate ass-lick media that came up with this "the poor are the problem here" somehow missed these items too?

I'm calling bailout here, $1 trillion to start with. And if we need a new war for the same purpose, then so be it. Fair is fair.

If we get in place for the poor people what we have in place for the top .01% earners and for the largest corporations, just look at that 47% number shrivel up right away.











tazzygirl -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/27/2011 10:50:30 PM)

Umm.. I did mention SS... social security.

As for the rest of your post, I cant figure out what you are saying.




thompsonx -> RE: VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy (4/28/2011 11:06:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

spending carefully examined and cut dramatically, and taxes raised, no matter how you argue it, it is what needs doing. 



Ron do you think we could balance the books and get some black ink on the bottom line if say maybe we stopped the war in the sand box?




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