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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 9:31:13 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"I can only assume you are trying to pander to ignorant partisan players for some reason, by even bringing it up on the same thread."

Not true, I don't even know who was President at the time because I don't commit useless knowledge to memory.

T^T


--- I view it  that the house can do funny stuff- but not the peons.  

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 10:17:04 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

.........Manning. No question. No doubt. No comparison.


I could not disagree more. People in the employ of the President of the US outting the WIFE of someone standing in the way of the war machine is pretty damn horrible. They endangered CIA agents and their contacts in retaliation. Elected officials deliberately harming the CIA for petty reasons is disgusting.

Manning is a misguided fool that as far as we know acted independently.

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 10:22:07 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		^  Agreed.


// tho on Manning there is a rumour that this leak is a fake....  and from what I seen- I tend to agree that it is not much of anything.   When climategate went down- we were able to download the whole file...  86 MB.

But with wiki leaks they release it so slow it will take 37 years to get it all out.

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 11:48:14 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Robert Novac outed Valerie Plame, not Carl Rove...

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 12:01:50 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		But what official in the employ of the President told Mr Novac??

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 12:50:23 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I could not disagree more. People in the employ of the President of the US outting the WIFE of someone standing in the way of the war machine is pretty damn horrible. They endangered CIA agents and their contacts in retaliation. Elected officials deliberately harming the CIA for petty reasons is disgusting.

Manning is a misguided fool that as far as we know acted independently.



You place such emphasis on retaliation, Hlen. Italics, bold and underline. I see two very different types of retaliation here. On the one hand, we have the people at the seat of power sending a specific and direct message of "don't fuck with us," on the other we have poor little Bradley Manning deciding that he matters, dammit, he really does, and he'll show them. I think our sticking point is which form of retaliation is worse.

What else do you think Manning's motivation might have been? He was in an "awkward place," remember? He was a stupid punk, lashing out blindly, retaliating against the world because he didn't feel special enough. He wasn't the kid at McDonalds who throws a tray of Big Macs, or that flight attendant with a beer, or even the public works asshole who pisses in the reservoir, though. This is the guy who sets the apartment building on fire, or sabotages a cooling system in a nuke plant, or derails a train.

I'm not going to condone or defend the Plame thing, but the two just don't belong on the same page.



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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 1:04:14 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You place such emphasis on retaliation, Hlen. Italics, bold and underline. I see two very different types of retaliation here. On the one hand, we have the people at the seat of power sending a specific and direct message of "don't fuck with us," on the other we have poor little Bradley Manning deciding that he matters, dammit, he really does, and he'll show them. I think our sticking point is which form of retaliation is worse.

What else do you think Manning's motivation might have been? He was in an "awkward place," remember? He was a stupid punk, lashing out blindly, retaliating against the world because he didn't feel special enough. He wasn't the kid at McDonalds who throws a tray of Big Macs, or that flight attendant with a beer, or even the public works asshole who pisses in the reservoir, though. This is the guy who sets the apartment building on fire, or sabotages a cooling system in a nuke plant, or derails a train.

I'm not going to condone or defend the Plame thing, but the two just don't belong on the same page.




I don't see Manning's actions as retaliation at all. I don't know his motivations and don't care. If he's convicted, he is just an unethical traitor. In another thread I made it very clear I have no sympathy (I did it again!!) for "widdle Bwadley".

One stupid man-child does not belong on the same page as some one in the adminsitration saying, "Plame's husband is throwing sand in the gears of our war machine. Let's fuck HER over, jeopardize anyone she works with, possibly get our own agents killed and any foreign national that has the stupidity to trust us with information. That'll show HIM."

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 1:06:42 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		Rove's betrayal definitely endangered lives and ruined careers.

Did Manning's?

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 1:13:54 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		I'm sure it did.

We have 1 dumb kid maybe even thinking he is a whistle-blower (Who knows his motivation?). There is no comparison between him and highly placed people in the administration using the press to fuck over 3rd parties working for the government. Why did they do that? Because Plame's HUSBAND was pointing out the emperor had no clothes!! There were no weapons of mass destruction, ergo, no need to invade Iraq.

How in the heck was Halliburton supposed to make any money that way??

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 2:26:38 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Rove's betrayal definitely endangered lives and ruined careers.

Did Manning's?



That's going to be classified, Ken. Perhaps even secured a bit better than what Manning threw into the wind. You seem all set to have a tizzy over the consequences of one name, so with 250,000 documents, I'd say the odds are pretty fucking good.

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 3:33:42 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		AIUI documents in the iraq and afghan war diaries that identified locals who worked with US forces were not released. The diplomatic cables may identify US assets but they shouldn't. They definitely should not reveal the identity of covert agents.

While I have no sympathy for Manning, I fail to see how his leaking endagered US people and operations in the way Rove's did.

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 4:08:44 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I fail to see how his leaking endagered US people and operations in the way Rove's did.



Maybe turn off the "nothing can ever be worse than a Republican" filter?


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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 4:16:25 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I fail to see how his leaking endagered US people and operations in the way Rove's did.



Maybe turn off the "nothing can ever be worse than a Republican" filter?


Were US assets identified in those documents? Were US agents' identities compromised? Were classified technologies revealed?

All that stuff should only appear in documents classified Top Secret. AIUI almost all of the documents wikileaks has released attributed to Manning were classified Secret and therefore should not contain anything of the sorts likely to endanger lives if revelead.

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 4:29:10 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Were US assets identified in those documents? Were US agents' identities compromised? Were classified technologies revealed?

All that stuff should only appear in documents classified Top Secret. AIUI almost all of the documents wikileaks has released attributed to Manning were classified Secret and therefore should not contain anything of the sorts likely to endanger lives if revelead.


As I said, earlier Ken, what all was in there, is going to be classified. Does it matter to you all at all that Manning had no idea what he might be cutting loose? What has made it into print certainly contains the sorts of information that is going to damage relationships, and trust. That is far more injurious to the overall national security than any particuar asset that might get imprisoned or shot.



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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 5:05:58 PM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		When I asked which transgression was worse, I wasn't talking about 10 bad consequences from one vs 20 bad consequences from the other.

I'm not looking at this as left or right. If a Democrat administration had done this, I would find it equally reprehensible.

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 5:35:37 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Excuse me for being confused... but I thought America is an open and transparent country?

Wiki leaks will mock that- ever so very slowly over 37 years!

Manning was put it to this.  He is a patsy.

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 6:32:52 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

He is a patsy.




Don't you mean pansy? I think that was part of his issue.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 6:38:02 PM   
Termyn8or


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You fucker, Ken because we seem to agree here - this shit was just not that bad. None of it. Plus the possibility that it was all planned to give people some drama, but that's for another time. But really, what do we care ? If we start a war it probably won't be against us, until someone can make a buck doing that.

Plans for bombs are all over the internet. What more can we do to fuck this planet up ? Hunky, I agree. Why do we need these secrets ? What so Diem would not get out alive ? So Chavez who has never did a fucking thing to us wouldn't know we were going to depose him ? We don't need a fucking CIA, or didn't. Looking back at the cold war which spawned half this shit, we started a hell of alot of it. Others responded because we don't understand, they are not states, they are sovereign nations and believe it or not I not only support the right of Iran to persue nuclear power, but the bomb as well. Most of the brainwashed sheeple will think I'm crazy, but do they have less status than we ? Who the fuck are we halfway around the world to tell them what they can and can't have ? Now if they fuck people up with it we mught have a new glass parking lot. But that remains to be seen.

Really, Wikileaks never meant all that much, and in fact it may have been planned. With all the profiling and psych testing they do, they didn't know someone would do this ? Well why do it then ? Obviously it's a waste of time, and our fucking money, and so is the CIA period. The FBI is a different story, somebody has to do that, but you know in the beginning they didn't even carry guns ?

All the world seems a stage, and I am having trouble believeing that this is not part of it. Keep you occupied while they pick your pocket just a bit more. Render unto Ceasar(sp), but they are down to pennies. This has to be a scam, no fucking doubt.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 4/23/2011 6:42:23 PM >

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 7:43:43 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Term. these leaks -  still have names blacked out.

Hello??

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RE: Q. Where are all the wiki leaks? WHERE - 4/23/2011 7:56:54 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		Doesn't that make it soooo much more intriguing ?

Watch the bankbook.

T^T

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