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RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 6:43:23 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thirsty4Goddess

This is one that always fascinated me, how can anyone over the age of six accept a literal interpretation of this story?

Asuume that a 600 year old man is able to somehow collect a breeding pair from every animal in the world, transport them to the middle east and house them without them killing and eating each other.

The Ark was supposed to be 300 cubits long 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits tall. A cubit is the length of a person's forearm, or somewhere between a foot to 18". So the surface area of the deck would have been about the size of a football field.

So two of every animal that survived the flood where housed in an area of three football fields? Really?

And of course anybody that has raised animals knows that one breeding pair is not a viable population. All of the animalsl offspring would be have to be breed with siblings. Such inbreeding would have had disastrous consequences.

Then of course after the water subsided, Noah woould have to transport them back to where they came from. And the carnivorous animals would have to survive until the prey species had reproduced enough. So they would have in many cases go for a year without food.

I am curious how believers reconcile such impossibilities?







It was a miracle.

Hence, you canNOT explain it.

www.dictionary.com
–noun
1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of god.
3. a wonder; marvel.
4. a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality: a miracle of modern acoustics.


_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Thirsty4Goddess)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 6:50:25 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		I will note that the OP has singled out Christians to mock.

Why not the Jews and Muslims too?

At the time of Noah, this is their history also.

I find this to be intellectually dishonest and a red flag that the OP has some other agenda.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 7:35:19 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
the supposed time of the flood



When was that, Ken? How was it calculated? Back when I was incarcerated in Baptist school, we had a travelling snake oil salesman... oops, I mean itinerant minister, who gave us an afternoon lecture on the literal inerrancy of the (King James) Bible. He told us that the precise age of the earth could be determined by adding up the begats, in just the right way. Are you calculating with that sort of literalist methodology?

The only timeframe we have for the root of the flood myth is, within the span of human oral tradition.

The geology is an excellent question. Funny thing with geology though. Often the answer is such a big and obvious piece of the landscape and scenery, it isn't even noticed.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 7:45:09 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		One of my favorite lines from Bill Cosby`s Noah......."what`s a cubit?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KHt8xrQkk

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RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 8:03:10 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		If it's so easy why don't you go ahead and do it? I go by what Judge Judy says which is, " If it doesn't make sense it's a lie." In my opinion the story was significantly embellished over time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Easily.


(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 8:09:04 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

The flood story goes back to Sumeria's "Epic of Gilgamesh." It's part of the cultural mindset for Western civilization.

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 10:04:32 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		I remember teaching the Noah story to a group of way-too-smart tween at a liberal Episcopal church.

Among their questions:

-- How did Noah keep the predators from eating the prey?
-- Was the flood saltwater or freshwater? What happened to the fish that lived in the other kind of water?
-- Was this before or after the time of the dinosaurs?
-- How did Noah transport the animals from all over the world?

It was my first class with ths group, and it was a real eye-opener.

I tried to explain that a story needn't be literally true for us to draw lessons from it, pointing out that they liked Harry Potter even though we know quidditch isn't real. This set us off on an HP tangent, much to the dismay of the other teacher!



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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 10:54:51 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

keep in mind that at the time the story was written it was what they thought to be a worldwide flood...their world, their localised area was the world to them so to collect two of every animal there would probably been a little difficult but not impossible nor would building a boat of that size.



A little difficult huh?

Uhhhhhhhhh.....................okay.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/24/2011 11:18:23 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

many Christians insist on a literal interpretation of the


Many? At best, 1/3... and that depends on factors such as education, geographical area, and age. But even that is circumspect in relationship to those who actually answer phone surveys.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/27682/OneThird-Americans-Believe-Bible-Literally-True.aspx



One good poll deserves another:


Most Americans take Bible stories literally - Washington Times


God’s creation of the Earth, Noah and the flood, Moses at the Red Sea: These pivotal stories from the Old Testament still resonate deeply with most Americans, who take the accounts literally rather than as a symbolic lesson.

An ABC News poll released Sunday found that 61 percent of Americans believe the account of creation in the Bible’s book of Genesis is “literally true” rather than a story meant as a “lesson.”

Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 12:17:54 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thirsty4Goddess

This is one that always fascinated me, how can anyone over the age of six accept a literal interpretation of this story?

Asuume that a 600 year old man is able to somehow collect a breeding pair from every animal in the world, transport them to the middle east and house them without them killing and eating each other.

The Ark was supposed to be 300 cubits long 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits tall. A cubit is the length of a person's forearm, or somewhere between a foot to 18". So the surface area of the deck would have been about the size of a football field.

So two of every animal that survived the flood where housed in an area of three football fields? Really?

And of course anybody that has raised animals knows that one breeding pair is not a viable population. All of the animalsl offspring would be have to be breed with siblings. Such inbreeding would have had disastrous consequences.

Then of course after the water subsided, Noah woould have to transport them back to where they came from. And the carnivorous animals would have to survive until the prey species had reproduced enough. So they would have in many cases go for a year without food.

I am curious how believers reconcile such impossibilities?







It was a miracle.

Hence, you canNOT explain it.

www.dictionary.com
–noun
1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of god.
3. a wonder; marvel.
4. a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality: a miracle of modern acoustics.



Ever notice how those miracles only seemed to happen in a time period when mythology was prominent?

Yet, we have the wonderfully convenient explanation that it can't be explained.

Ever notice how God was always talking to everyone back then? 

I mean you couldn't take a piss in the desert without God looking over your shoulder.

I walk past bushes everyday, so far none have burst into flame and started talking to me.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 4:13:46 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

many Christians insist on a literal interpretation of the


Many? At best, 1/3... and that depends on factors such as education, geographical area, and age. But even that is circumspect in relationship to those who actually answer phone surveys.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/27682/OneThird-Americans-Believe-Bible-Literally-True.aspx



One good poll deserves another:


Most Americans take Bible stories literally - Washington Times


God’s creation of the Earth, Noah and the flood, Moses at the Red Sea: These pivotal stories from the Old Testament still resonate deeply with most Americans, who take the accounts literally rather than as a symbolic lesson.

An ABC News poll released Sunday found that 61 percent of Americans believe the account of creation in the Bible’s book of Genesis is “literally true” rather than a story meant as a “lesson.”

Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.



Interesting poll, but they don't say what percentage doesn't believe it was literal and what percent isn't christian. How is the remaining percentage split?


_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 4:16:48 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
If it's so easy why don't you go ahead and do it?

I am in a sense. Unfortunately I have had computer malfunction for the past three weeks. I do not know when I will able to pursue my current project. I intend to write an article about something else first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
I go by what Judge Judy says which is, " If it doesn't make sense it's a lie."

Making sense of the incomprehensible is what I usually successfully do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
In my opinion the story was significantly embellished over time.

Debellished would be a rather more accurate word.

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 6:53:48 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

many Christians insist on a literal interpretation of the


Many? At best, 1/3... and that depends on factors such as education, geographical area, and age. But even that is circumspect in relationship to those who actually answer phone surveys.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/27682/OneThird-Americans-Believe-Bible-Literally-True.aspx



One good poll deserves another:


Most Americans take Bible stories literally - Washington Times


God’s creation of the Earth, Noah and the flood, Moses at the Red Sea: These pivotal stories from the Old Testament still resonate deeply with most Americans, who take the accounts literally rather than as a symbolic lesson.

An ABC News poll released Sunday found that 61 percent of Americans believe the account of creation in the Bible’s book of Genesis is “literally true” rather than a story meant as a “lesson.”

Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.



Interesting poll, but they don't say what percentage doesn't believe it was literal and what percent isn't christian. How is the remaining percentage split?



ABC Poll, Feb 2004

http://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/947a1ViewsoftheBible.pdf

Those who state no religion indicate 32% believe the literal story about the Red Sea, 24% creationism, and 29% about the Ark.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 7:03:00 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Ever notice how those miracles only seemed to happen in a time period when mythology was prominent?

There are still spontaneous remissions for cancer and such now. We accept them, but we don't know how it works.

quote:

Yet, we have the wonderfully convenient explanation that it can't be explained.

I seem to recall that one of G*d's big taglines was that he is incomprehensible.

quote:

Ever notice how God was always talking to everyone back then?
 
Yes. And this one is actually explained. It was a time of prophets and they are not around anymore.

quote:

I mean you couldn't take a piss in the desert without God looking over your shoulder.

Or at least lighting the damn bush on fire.

quote:

I walk past bushes everyday, so far none have burst into flame and started talking to me.



I would consider this a good thing. It is like when the house in Ammityville Horror or Poltergeist, one of those anyways, said, "GET OUT!"

My house has never spoken to me. I am perfectly fine with this. If it ever did, or plants started talking to me, I would probably want to relocate myself to the nearest state crazy pen.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 7:04:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I think that the idea that two hot young babes got him drunk and took advantage of him when they got to dry land is what really sold it for me.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 7:04:55 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

~FR~

The flood story goes back to Sumeria's "Epic of Gilgamesh." It's part of the cultural mindset for Western civilization.


The Biblical version, yes.

Multiple tribal cultures have long standing flood legends in their oral history.  I am pretty sure they weren't reading Gilgamesh.

The real question to ponder would be why this story is so prevalent in history.

< Message edited by flcouple2009 -- 4/25/2011 7:31:04 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 7:08:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		it is contained in my sigline quote by JFK.   In the old low religions where mans fight was against nature (and not mans own nature)....it was needful to hope for rebirth of the world after diluvian events.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 7:29:06 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

~FR~

The flood story goes back to Sumeria's "Epic of Gilgamesh." It's part of the cultural mindset for Western civilization.


The Biblical version, yes.

Multiple tribal cultures have long standing flood legends in there oral history.  I am pretty sure they weren't reading Gilgamesh.

The real question to ponder would be why this story is so prevalent in history.


When one considers that most of the land we consider and high and dry was once an ocean bottom, gathering sediments for eons and forming the rocks,boulders and soil,a flood story it could become common.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/25/2011 7:30:04 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 7:35:11 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I will note that the OP has singled out Christians to mock.

Why not the Jews and Muslims too?



Because it was posted on Easter morning. You will note that on any given Christian holiday there are anti Christian belief threads started on this board.

This was last years bash the Christians on Easter thread:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3146070/mpage_1/tm.htm

It's a pattern around here. Christmas time we get lots more tho. Many love to mock and bash during Christmas time, it's an absolute feast for some. Everything from how insulting a Christmas tree is to how stupid anyone is for believing in a Christian God.

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark - 4/25/2011 7:38:39 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

~FR~

The flood story goes back to Sumeria's "Epic of Gilgamesh." It's part of the cultural mindset for Western civilization.


The Biblical version, yes.

Multiple tribal cultures have long standing flood legends in their oral history.  I am pretty sure they weren't reading Gilgamesh.

The real question to ponder would be why this story is so prevalent in history.


How else could you explain seashells found on mountain tops?  (fossils)

My personal belief, shared by some other folks, is that the legends of 'dragons' that are prevalent in many cultures were inspired by fossils (dinosaurs) as well.  If you find bones of a huge animal or one that isn't where it should be, you have to try to explain it. 

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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