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Public privacy - 4/24/2011 1:00:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		How does that work?

At what point in public do you expect to have privacy?

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 1:04:32 PM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline 		Define privacy and then we can tell you how much of it we expect to have in public. If you mean "nobody seeing you in any way" then I expect to have very little privacy in public. If you mean "nobody is allowed to scan your body to pick up any transmitting chips (such as in your bank cards) you may have" then I expect to have full privacy in public.

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 1:06:59 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The first example is impossible.

The second is illegal.

Your question is exactly what I am getting at.

You are in public, at what point does your privacy end?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 1:38:02 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		It is sorta like a mind your own business thing.   There are limits and civility must come into play.

Things can be used as a tool- and also as a weapon.

Absolute power- corrupts.  A lot of information is mindless nonsense.  But  a stalker could go wild with mundane info.

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 1:44:01 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You are in public, at what point does your privacy end?

If I'm in public, privacy has ended. By my definition, if the general public can see or hear me, I'm not experiencing privacy......luci

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 2:18:59 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		in public I don't expect any. They're an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned.

Sure I'd like some but I don't expect it.

The only place I expect it is within my own home.



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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 2:43:55 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How does that work?

At what point in public do you expect to have privacy?

Sorry I didn't answer the original first, tazzy.

I really don't think anyone should expect much of a version of privacy once they leave their home.  Hopefully, you'll get it should you need to use the bathroom at an establishment.

Everything else is no guarantee.  Before somebody comes along and says that's because the government is watching us, that's baloney.  Every dang person who has a cell phone with audio/video recording capabilities can mess with your privacy.  If you fart in public, you might as well expect it to be on YouTube.


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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 2:47:20 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		i expect to go through the metal detector at the airport, and maybe get patted down. i would consider a mandatory strip search to be an invasion of privacy.

i don't like people gossiping and speculating about me behind my back, especially when it's about something that has nothing to do with them. i consider idle and malicious gossip to be an invasion of privacy.

i expect an interviewed to check my references and even to require a criminal background check for some jobs. i consider requiring a credit report to be an invasion of privacy.

i expect cops to do their jobs. However when they tail my car for miles hoping that i'll do something wrong so they can pull me over, or when they apparently stop me for doing nothing more then walking down the street at night, and then run a full background report before they let me go, i consider that to be an invasion of privacy.

i believe people have the right to know the biological gender of any person that they're dating. i would consider a law requiring people to wear a nametag designating their biological gender to be an invasion of privacy. i also think it would be an invasion of privacy to require people to wear that label on an internet site.

i believe the government should require immigrants to enter this country legally. i consider requiring people to carry with them at all times the proof of their legal status to be an invasion of privacy.

i don't believe that a person gives up the right to privacy when they enter the public sphere. They give up some, but not all.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 4/24/2011 2:51:20 PM >

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 2:58:20 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		i think that revoking 1,000 drivers licenses that may not be valid, until further proof, is not an invasion of privacy.

pam

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 3:34:31 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Why do I keep picturing upskirt videos?

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 4:01:57 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How does that work?

At what point in public do you expect to have privacy?



I expect that there are certain things that can't be imposed upon me in public.

For example, stop and search. I expect that the 'innocent until proven guilty' principle is invoked. There should never be a law allowing an authority to stop me in the street and question me without good reason.

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 5:48:49 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The first example is impossible.

The second is illegal.

Your question is exactly what I am getting at.

You are in public, at what point does your privacy end?


Actually RFID tags can store an abundance of information. Almost everything you buy at Walmart, for example, has RFID tags. These tags can be read long after you buy a product. For example, if you bought a garment at Walmart a few months ago, wear that same garment when you go back to the store, they can tell when you bought it, with what credit card it was purchased, and who paid for it if it was bought with a credit card.

Now I am not freaked out by that so much, but there are potential abuses of this information. In a society where everything is implanted with microchips, conceivably you could be tracked via what you have bought. Like the movie Minority Report, you can have ads customized to you specifically. This is already occurring to all of us on the internet when cookies track our web history, report where we go, and then ads are customized to us based upon this information. Facebook does it, also. You could argue that facebook is a public place on the internet, and yet we have our data mined all of the time on that site.

I am troubled that these invasions of personal space in public can take place. I do not alter my behavior because of it, mind you, but I think about it now and then. There are no real laws in place to stop the invasions of privacy that I speak of, so your assumption that all invasions of personal privacy in public are against the law would be incorrect.





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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 5:52:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

i expect to go through the metal detector at the airport, and maybe get patted down. i would consider a mandatory strip search to be an invasion of privacy.


Would it still be an invasion of privacy if someone failed the metal detector and the pat down?

quote:


i don't like people gossiping and speculating about me behind my back, especially when it's about something that has nothing to do with them. i consider idle and malicious gossip to be an invasion of privacy.



If the gossip is about something that happened in public, what right do you have to complain?

quote:



i expect an interviewed to check my references and even to require a criminal background check for some jobs. i consider requiring a credit report to be an invasion of privacy.


Depending on the job, it came be a requirement. You do have the option of not applying for those types of jobs.

quote:


i expect cops to do their jobs. However when they tail my car for miles hoping that i'll do something wrong so they can pull me over, or when they apparently stop me for doing nothing more then walking down the street at night, and then run a full background report before they let me go, i consider that to be an invasion of privacy.



How is your criminal background "private"?

quote:



i believe people have the right to know the biological gender of any person that they're dating. i would consider a law requiring people to wear a nametag designating their biological gender to be an invasion of privacy. i also think it would be an invasion of privacy to require people to wear that label on an internet site.

i believe the government should require immigrants to enter this country legally. i consider requiring people to carry with them at all times the proof of their legal status to be an invasion of privacy.



Yet we dont bat an eye when we have to carry those same papers in other countries.

quote:



i don't believe that a person gives up the right to privacy when they enter the public sphere. They give up some, but not all.

pam



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 5:55:01 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I am troubled that these invasions of personal space in public can take place. I do not alter my behavior because of it, mind you, but I think about it now and then. There are no real laws in place to stop the invasions of privacy that I speak of, so your assumption that all invasions of personal privacy in public are against the law would be incorrect.


I was commenting on the following when I said the second example...

quote:

If you mean "nobody is allowed to scan your body to pick up any transmitting chips (such as in your bank cards) you may have" then I expect to have full privacy in public.


Which I said was illegal.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 5:58:35 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I really don't think anyone should expect much of a version of privacy once they leave their home. Hopefully, you'll get it should you need to use the bathroom at an establishment.

Everything else is no guarantee. Before somebody comes along and says that's because the government is watching us, that's baloney. Every dang person who has a cell phone with audio/video recording capabilities can mess with your privacy. If you fart in public, you might as well expect it to be on YouTube.


This is what Im getting at, LP. Once you walk out of your home, anything viewable becomes subject to public scrutiny. As more becomes "viewable" more interest is attracted. As we accept more in the name of safety, we lose even more privacy.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 5:58:58 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I am troubled that these invasions of personal space in public can take place. I do not alter my behavior because of it, mind you, but I think about it now and then. There are no real laws in place to stop the invasions of privacy that I speak of, so your assumption that all invasions of personal privacy in public are against the law would be incorrect.


I was commenting on the following when I said the second example...

quote:

If you mean "nobody is allowed to scan your body to pick up any transmitting chips (such as in your bank cards) you may have" then I expect to have full privacy in public.


Which I said was illegal.



Look at this:


hile the tags can be removed from clothing and packages, they can't be turned off, and they are trackable. Some privacy advocates hypothesize that unscrupulous marketers or criminals will be able to drive by consumers' homes and scan their garbage to discover what they have recently bought.

They also worry that retailers will be able to scan customers who carry new types of personal ID cards as they walk through a store, without their knowledge. Several states, including Washington and New York, have begun issuing enhanced driver's licenses that contain radio- frequency tags with unique ID numbers, to make border crossings easier for frequent travelers. Some privacy advocates contend that retailers could theoretically scan people with such licenses as they make purchases, combine the info with their credit card data, and then know the person's identity the next time they stepped into the store.


Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704421304575383213061198090.html#ixzz1KUZmLLBo

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 6:46:01 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Julia, pahunk and I both agree these can be utilized for something beyond their intent. That was not what I was shooting down as being illegal... it was the tracking of bank cards which is illegal.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 6:58:16 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

i expect to go through the metal detector at the airport, and maybe get patted down. i would consider a mandatory strip search to be an invasion of privacy.

Would it still be an invasion of privacy if someone failed the metal detector and the pat down?

No, it wouldn't be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
i don't like people gossiping and speculating about me behind my back, especially when it's about something that has nothing to do with them. i consider idle and malicious gossip to be an invasion of privacy.


If the gossip is about something that happened in public, what right do you have to complain?

In my mind it was more a situation of, people gossiping and speculating about what they *think* happened, not discussing the facts of something that *did* happen. If i did something in public and then other people commented on it, i wouldn't consider *that* invasion of privacy. But i would consider slander to be an invasion of privacy. For example, if i quit my job, and then my boss started saying (without proof or evidence) that i quit because i'm on drugs, and people believed it, and judged me, and started reacting to me in a certain way because of it, i would consider *that* to be an invasion of privacy.

i'm defining "invasion of privacy" pretty loosely here, as any imposition by society on what i consider to be my personal rights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
i expect an interviewed to check my references and even to require a criminal background check for some jobs. i consider requiring a credit report to be an invasion of privacy.


Depending on the job, it came be a requirement. You do have the option of not applying for those types of jobs.

i don't think that having that option makes it any less of an invasion of privacy. For example, i may know that on Fridays the police always set a checkpoint on a certain street to screen for drunk drivers. i may think that it's an invasion of privacy (in fact, i don't think that it is) and i may be able to drive around the checkpoint since i know where it is, but i don't see why the fact that i could avoid it would make it any less of an invasion of privacy, if it was one. Sure, i have another option, but that's not the point.

For me, the term "invasion of privacy" means the violation of a right. Whether a person has a particular right (in this case, whether a person has the right to drive down a particular street without taking a breath test, unless they've done something to indicate that they *might* be driving drunk)- whether or not a person has that right isn't dependent on whether they could avoid the checkpoint if they wanted to. In my mind, either they have the right, or they don't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
i expect cops to do their jobs. However when they tail my car for miles hoping that i'll do something wrong so they can pull me over, or when they apparently stop me for doing nothing more then walking down the street at night, and then run a full background report before they let me go, i consider that to be an invasion of privacy.


How is your criminal background "private"?

It's not private for any policeman who had a *reason* to stop me. The violation of privacy is when the police stop me (or anyone) without a reason. i used to live in Davis, and that sort of thing happened a lot.

quote:

ORIGINAL:gungadin09
i believe the government should require immigrants to enter this country legally. i consider requiring people to carry with them at all times the proof of their legal status to be an invasion of privacy.


Yet we dont bat an eye when we have to carry those same papers in other countries.

i do. i think it's just as ridiculous in other countries, it's just that i don't have a say in their laws.


< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 4/24/2011 7:25:29 PM >

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 7:07:25 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Tazzy, the entire gist of this thread is about protecting our privacy in public places, and whether or not we have the right to expect some form of privacy in public. You stated that it is illegal to track us in public with our bank cards. I pointed out that they do not need to track our bank cards, but they indeed could have access to something just as identifying, and that is our personal identification.

Now like I said, I am not going to go off the grid in a paranoid scramble to protect my privacy, but I am pointing out that there are some forms of privacy we should have, even in public, and our personal identity being scanned, cataloged for whatever useful data can be mined, and who knows, perhaps sold, is one of those ways that I believe we should have privacy.

I also think I should have the ability to buy things privately with cash. Some would argue we shouldn't even have that modicum of privacy, and they want traceable currency (if it already isn't traceable). I find it disturbing that people do not feel more strongly about their sense of privacy that they feel by necessity they need to trade it for security. The argument that if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide seems a bit fatalistic to me. There are many things I do in my life that are not wrong, but I do not want them public knowledge.... increasingly we lose the right to lose ourselves.

Perhaps it is because I am a Californian I feel this way. People have historically often made their way here for a new start, a fresh beginning in a place where no one would know them. We have no new places to start over because the world has shrunk. Our activities can be traced even in the privacy of our own home. Our calls can be tracked. If we have cable they can track what we watch, where we go on the internet, etc etc etc.... we have no privacy period... not in public and not in private... whether we should be able to expect it or not, whether it is legal to find out what we are up to or not....


So the point of the thread, should we have the expectation of privacy in public? Yes, to some extent. Do I expect to have privacy? Nope, not even in a public restroom, necessarily. I know there are people who would even watch me there, ask Erin Andrews about privacy in a hotel room, for example. That ain't paranoia, it is just being honest with myself how technology can and is used. Sure, it is illegal to do such things, but it is illegal to do many things.


The saddest part of all is that people comply with the government stripping them every time they fly, as if that will make them safer... it only is one step closer to acceptance of a lack of even the most personal invasions..

Now I will get off my soap box.....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Public privacy - 4/24/2011 7:25:24 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How does that work?

At what point in public do you expect to have privacy?



To be honest, I do not EXPECT to have privacy anywhere.

I grew up the oldest of 6 kids, poor, in a 3 bedroom house with one bathroom.........privacy? What was privacy? I got married when I was 16 and became a mother a few days after my 17th birthday. I had another child when I was 18 and most of my siblings spent a good deal of time at my house because of my mother.

20+ years ago, when Generic Dude and I hooked up, I knew his military career was removing a lot of my privacy.

I am very used to not worrying about privacy.........although now, I probably have more than most people.......just due to life circumstances. I don't freak out at the idea of random people knowing how much money I do, or don't, have. I don't get buggity about the possibility of people peeking in my windows, though I don't expect it to happen.

I just think there are more important things to occupy my brain with than worrying about possible privacy invasion. I focus on living my life. It is my belief that living the way I do, not worrying about it, I am granted more privacy........because I don't really have anything to hide. Not having anything to hide, any thing that gives people leverage over me at the idea of 'knowing' something, gives most people no reason, gratification, there's just no payoff to making the invading worth while.



_____________________________

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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