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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 1:14:40 AM

DarqueMirror

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

To fine parents for looking out for their children is soooo wrong. I don't understand how they get away with it, especially with the resulting protests and phone calls.

Again, here we have syntax trouble. They aren't being fined for "looking out for their children." They're being fined for "breaking the law."

Way to teach the kids "Oh honey it's okay if you can't get what you want legally. Just break the law and all will be OK."

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Post #: 21

RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 1:25:14 AM

hlen5

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I strongly urge everyone to watch the documentary "Waiting for Superman". In light of the studies and theories that documentary presents, it is crystal clear why this mother would do this for her son.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 6:56:45 AM

LafayetteLady

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~FAST REPLY~

What's unusual is that while this is something that happens frequently throughout the country, and these matters are usually handled by the school, the CITY has stepped in to prosecute this woman, when the school didn't press charges. Typically, the parent is told to pay the cost of their child attending that district, or the child can not attend.

The city is complaining that she was "stealing services." This is public school education, something every child is entitled to. Florida has school choice. A parent can choose from any number of schools within the district. This completely removes a problem of parents moving and forcing their kids to change schools or the homeless. It also causes the schools to present themselves as desirable to parents and students, which is a good thing.

Ignorance of the law is not a defense, but I think that the city will have a hard time prosecuting this one. It seems more like the city prosecutor wants to let his rich constituents know that he will fight to keep the poor "undesirables" out of their schools. Sad really. But since she doesn't actually have an address, I do have to wonder how it is decided what district she lives in.

As for the concept that education begins at home....yes, parents need to teach their children right from wrong, manners and all those common sense things. I know people who home school their children and their children are doing well. But having the time and the ability to do so is rare. We live in a society where typically both parents need to work, and the number of single parent homes is on the rise. The same people who scream about single mothers getting welfare are the same ones who scream about how working single moms don't watch their kids well enough. You can't have it both ways. Like it or not, where a kid is educated will make a difference down the road.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 9:07:48 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ETA- What is ironic is that she had apparently stayed at a shelter in Norwalk on several occasions, but never registered there. Had she done so, her son would have had every right to go to school in Norwalk.

I wondered about that. If she was staying there, then they must have know she had a kid. Don't they ask questions like where does your son attend school or is he registered?

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 9:52:36 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

"A penalty for stealing our services."
And what about the illegal aliens who send their kids to school in our country? What, these assholes turn a blind eye to that but pick on homeless U.S. Citizens?

If the kids are born in the US, that makes them US citizens, now would you prefer that they are denied an education and therefore can't get decent jobs, and instead of paying into the system just taking out through social security?

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 9:55:17 AM

Lockit

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When I was in the seventh grade and in a really good school, we were learning about taxes and school funding and it upset me. There is something very wrong in how school funding is handled. My grandmother happened to be a well known teacher in her district and was asked to go to the better schools throughout her career and her answer always was… I will stay where I am needed the most. Grandma’s class was vastly different from the other classes because grandma spent her own money to see that her classroom was different. She bought supplies, clothing, shoes, food and even a washing machine to make sure that those kids had a chance to come to school and learn. She also rattled cages from the district to her students and parents.. to assure those kids had a chance. Her students would contact her as adults and thank her for the influence she had upon their life. One teacher… many changed lives. While the other better teachers fled… the best and my grandma stayed. Her students made honor rolls and advancements that were hard to believe, because they came from 'that' school and 'those' people.

No one wanted to send their kids to that school. The school only became worse because the middle income moved away because they didn’t want to send their kids there. Less tax dollars, less in the way of schooling. Then they started this bullshit of special schools and you had to get on lists to be in them and people were selected, not always by a lotto type thing. More or less… in my opinion, leaving out a great sector of our society. I used to say… I sent my children to school and got different children back. It is an environment, not always curriculum that can influence and change a life and let’s face it, some schools are simply not safe. You try teaching children anything when they have to watch their back and fight the social ills while trying to absorb any education other than survival.

We need big changes in schooling all the way around. It shouldn’t take the Hollywood set to promote better schooling. It shouldn’t take school sponsored marketing to get money for programs and it shouldn’t take children being put at risk to enable one group a better education and a better survival.

I directed a homeless shelter and back in the day, they were always in bad areas and the children had to transfer to the local schools. It was a mess. We had out dates for short times, typically a month if you were lucky, to be or stay in a shelter. That was my first rule change. No one can put together a life, much less adjust and help their children adjust to the crisis that brought them there, in a month or even three months! Some clients chose to leave early because of the school their children had to go to. It broke my heart! Some actually used a parents/friends address, which it sounds like this lady did, now involving HUD/government most likely in the housing of another family. Just trying to survive and make their way through government lacks, housing and education, rather than criminal activities that many others would fall into. (You can assume you know why they were poor and blame them if you like, but, when I can tell you the people we had in the shelter and if you knew, you would hopefully think twice about assuming anything about them. Yes, some can be blamed, but not all.)

Most do not get prosecuted for something like this and if it is a crime to give a false address to save your child’s future… I guess I would have been guilty of it had I been in the situation. Talk about mother bear, poor or rich… we all should want what is best for our children and we should give a damn about those other children too… because this filters into society in a big way. Give them few options or chances in life… and they may just take a few… later in life… and it may just cost you in a personal way ‘then‘.

I do believe there was a homeless young lady and a homeless young man... that had to survive, that became fairly well known for their accomplishments when they went to schools they arranged, so that they could survive where they were born. This ought to say something about the human will to survive and it deserves some credit, not criminal charges. When you bitch about the criminals... think about those that really tried not to be 'that' type of criminal.

What is truly criminal is the funding of schools and how it all works, the unsafe environment we send children into and how 'those' people are forced to survive or actually make it in life. They want an education... that is the right choice... now lets get the lil fuckers for that! That is the real crime in my opinion.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 4/26/2011 10:41:24 AM >

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 10:28:25 AM

NocturnalStalker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

So you think the father of a mentally challenged daughter deserves to be fined for doing what he had to in order to send his daughter to one of the best schools instead of one of the worst?

i think the father deserves to be fined from breaking the law regardless of who his daughter was, and i think that "a better education" begins at home and not at the school.

pam

Not sure if serious.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 12:02:31 PM

hlen5

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Lockit's comments are entirely on target with the jist of the documentary "Waiting for Superman". The tax base determines the quality of education your kids get. How would any of the parents here like your kid's future, in essence, decided by a lottery?

ETA: Kudos to your Grandma, Lockit!!

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 4/26/2011 12:04:51 PM >

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 3:54:45 PM

DesFIP

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Unfortunately by sending an unregistered child to the school, the school is out $20,000. Money which buys a lot of computers, free or reduced priced meals, music, art, and so on. Are parents wrong for wanting something better for their children? No, is this the correct way to go about it? Also no.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 4:03:09 PM

NocturnalStalker

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And would you do it if you were in that position? Absolutely.

/topic.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 4:15:25 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker
Not sure if serious.

Yes, serious. i would have sent my kid to the right school, and then i would have bitched like hell to anyone who would listen if the school was substandard. Taken pictures. Called Michael Moore. Found out what i could do to register my kid in a better school, like living in a different shelter. Don't get me wrong, i think it's also deplorable that the schools are underfunded, or that there's favoritism when it comes to certain schools. But i would *not* have taught my child that it's okay to break the law to get what you want.

For the record, i think a 20 year jail sentence or $15,000 fine is ridiculous. How many people that do this understand the gravity of the crime? If the school district wanted to crackdown, they should've at least inform people of that fact first, made them aware that they could face felony charges. i think that the woman is being made an example of, and that's unfortunate because she's been through enough. But... no, i don't think it's okay to break the law to get what you want. At least not in this case. And i think that breaking the law carries with it a penalty that anyone who does break it needs to be prepared to pay.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 4/26/2011 4:33:34 PM >

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Post #: 31

RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 4:29:48 PM

Lockit

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Watch the movie or buy the book called Freedom Writers. One teacher, a new life dedication and changed lives. Were any of these kids worth less than any other? Were they to blame because of where they came from? It can't be about taxes, how schools should be run per how they are run today, race or any other thing. It needs to be about each and every American having a chance of the American dream of a free education, that should be free to all American's and equal to what some Americans now get.

I had children and I lived in some of those areas. In fact, I moved my children into the shelter and they had to go to the school there. I made headlines doing it. During my first speech at a hospital, with medical professionals, social workers and the like, I was asked by some uppity social worker that wanted to take me down... if it were safe for my children to have them living in the shelter. I said if it wasn't safe for my children, it wasn't safe for any child and as long as I was there... every child would be safe.

We don't mean to do it sometimes... but sometimes we have an attitude of... too bad for them.. tough it out or make it better on your own and it is your fault if you don't. While I can agree to some degree... I cannot agree on a whole. When you get a fair shake from birth on, no matter who you are, where you come from or what race you are... all good, judge, feel better than others.. until then... we have a lot of work to do and a lot of changes are needed. Personally I won't hold it against anyone with much against them, trying to find a way out, even if they break a crappy law that needs reformation.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 5:10:57 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termny8or
Does this indicate the possibility of a class war?

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
...this kid was underpriveledged because his mom was homeless, not because of what school he went to... i never felt that *where* i went to school was what held the key to a successful future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
i have heard it said (i don't know if it's true) that the U.S. has one of the lowest class mobility rates in the Western World. It wouldn't suprise me... i'm also pretty confident that most people can be successful if they try...

Maybe i'm just naive. i don't have kids, i don't know much about the different performances of different schools, and i've never gone to a substandard school. My mom's a really good teacher out in a poor, rural area, and as far as i know she's never been asked to leave her school to go teach at a rich kids' school. Is that the norm? i don't know. Maybe, maybe, if i was faced with sending my kid to a truly bad school, and i knew that it could jeopordise their future, i would have lied too. i don't know. i suspect not, but i don't absolutely know it.

But (trying hard not to beat a dead horse) i do know that i wouldn't have broken the law and then expected not to pay a price if i was caught. i would not have broken the law and then given the fact that i was poor, or that my daughter was mentally challenged, as a reason for why the laws don't apply to me.

pam

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Post #: 33

RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 5:48:41 PM

DomImus

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I'm glad to see that the general public is warming to the idea of taking the law into your own hands.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 6:27:56 PM

LafayetteLady

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~Fast Reply~

The school lost twenty grand? The school educated a child. A PUBLIC school. Now reasonably, this was a kid in kindergarten, but still, money spent on education is only considered "lost" if you feel that child didn't deserve it.

As for the immigration issue...yes, a child born in this country is a citizen. However, the district next to the one I grew up in had ILLEGAL immigrants. The district was not permitted to ask the status of the student or family. These people were working off the books, not paying taxes, but fully expecting their child to be educated.

Education in this country is falling behind all other civilized nations. A city wanting to show its residents that they will keep "that type" out at all costs should have the bulk of their funding sent to the needy districts.

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Post #: 35

RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 6:31:43 PM

DesFIP

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In New Mexico it would be a lot less money but Connecticut spends a lot on education. Not evenly across the board but that's a function of funding schools through property tax. Places where houses cost more, spend more. And yes, it would be about that considering state funding. You don't get money from the state for unregistered or illegally registered children.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 6:35:21 PM

Lockit

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Don, it isn't as simple as that. You have a homeless person, from whatever made them homeless. Whatever it is, it isn't a comfortable place and can be a place where you feel trapped, downtrodden and all you want to do is find a way to fix it. You may not be able to fix it right away, but so far... you may have tried all sorts of things to assure that trouble was kept to a minimum. For one reason or another, you are unable to get free or get up. Now you are homeless and you see your children trapped in a cycle that you have been trapped in. All you want to see is a way out and there is none.

You can't move into a place with the better schools and offer your children anything else, because you have no money or you wouldn't be homeless. Being homeless isn't always a matter of one thing that happened and could be stepping stones from birth that landed you there. All of this is a far bigger picture than what we are seeing in a small article about one situation.

I am not bleeding heart... I am a tough broad that came up through all sorts of circumstances and while I couldn't do what I wanted to do, managed to do some things. I was in the same place. I was homeless... You know of all the things I have seen there are only two things I suffer any baggage from. Two things that will give me nightmares anytime I come close to them. One... new medical professionals and two.. homelessness. I was hindered because I was sick and missed too much school. I had to educate myself in any manner I could. My health kept me back and if it hadn't I would have gotten an education, but that might not have kept us from being homeless.

If I hadn't been able to save my children in the small ways I was able to... and no I couldn't prevent having children... I would have done anything to get those kids into a better situation. I would have stolen food to feed them... I would have begged a man to do me to give us a place to stay. I would have given an address of anywhere if I had no address... what are they going to do... come see where we sleep at night?

Stuck people do many things of which I cannot compare to changing or claiming an address and going to the lucky school... when there are a whole lot of other things that are far worse. Like how some of those people got stuck in the first place.

I recently talked to a once well to do submissive man. His child, used to being well to do, didn't take well to this new economy and his lost employment, nor did the child do well with the changes of his new job, new address, new school or no longer shopping at a mall. All hell broke loose. Many families are going through this, now that never thought they would. They are seeing a bit of the other side. I know of a number of them changing an address or keeping the old one, so that their kids don't have to go to the other school option. This is going to get bigger and effect a lot of people that thought it would never happen to them.

There wouldn't be a frigging problem if ALL SCHOOLS in America were given the same consideration and tools in which to educate American people. Then we might be able to address some of those other pesky issues.

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RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 6:42:32 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
The school lost twenty grand? The school educated a child. A PUBLIC school.

That's why i don't understand the charges. The kid was entitled to go to school, just not entitled to go to school *there*. The government owes him an education, right? Besides, it's mandatory, right? It was just received at the wrong school. The mother's certainly guilty of fraud, but larceny? i don't see how this family received anything of monetary value that they didn't have coming to them in the first place. Can someone who knows help me out with the math?

pam

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Post #: 38

RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 6:46:14 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
You don't get money from the state for unregistered or illegally registered children.

No offense, but why not for children registered illegally in the wrong district? They're still in the state. They're still entitled to an education in that state, just not in that particular school.

pam

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Post #: 39

RE: mother charged for wanting better education for son - 4/26/2011 7:16:12 PM

juliaoceania

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The part of this that rankles most is that some kids get better public education than other kids because of where they live. That isn't the way public education should work.

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