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Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 6:41:13 AM   
jeffy29x


Posts: 20
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline 		I am defining recent as post-Vietnam.

My dates may not be exact, but at some point in the  early1980's ( i think) Saddam Hussein took over Iraq and subsequently started a war of conquest against Iran. Now i know the US and Iran did not have the best relationship back then, but Iraq tried to conquer Iran, That is clearly evil and clearly anti- American.

And yet,the USA supported Iraq. Why? Iraq was clearly doing something evil and trying to conquer Iran. It seems to me that if we had done the right thing, and at the very least publicly supported Iran against the war Iraq started with them, everything would be different now, not just with the USA and the middle east, but the entire world.  I easily understand why Iran and other middle eastern countries do not trust us, i sure as hell would not if i was them.

I was kid in the 80's, so i really have no firsthand knowledge of what really was going on and why the hell we would actually support something so obviously evil. Anyone care to shed some light?


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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 6:47:49 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Status: offline 		Dubya

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 6:50:15 AM   
jeffy29x


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Dubya


I don't get it.

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 6:56:50 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		My recollection was that Ronie and Bush Sr were selling weapons to both sides without the other knowing.

Yeah,that`s right,the cons were selling weapons to the Iranian revolutionary guard/terrorists/douche-bags, if you can believe it.

The two sides just ate each other up for years.It was the devil`s work for sure.The cons seemed delighted with themselves.

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 6:57:43 AM   
PatrickG38


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Joined: 10/8/2010
Status: offline 		We supported him ass counterweight to the Islamic Republic of Iran as they were perceived as the larger threat.

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 6:57:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We were pissed off because they ousted our installed puppet Reza Pahvali (Shah an Shah) and installed a government of their own, which scared the fuck outta us.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 6:59:35 AM   
jeffy29x


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

My recollection was that Ronie and Bush Sr were selling weapons to both sides without the other knowing.

Yeah,that`s right,the cons were selling weapons to the Iranian revolutionary guard/terrorists/douche-bags, if you can believe it.

The two sides just ate each other up for years.It was the devil`s work for sure.The cons seemed delighted with themselves.


When you say recollection, you imply that is something you were aware of at the time? And if this was common knowledge to the American public, how could those two countries possibly not know.

Also, were Iranian guard considered terrorists back then? or just police/soldiers

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:00:53 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Hang on here. Let's get this straight. You do not have the whole story.

Carter refused to send the Shah of Iran back. He had been a campaign contributor, but I'm sure that had nothing to do with it (yeah right). Iran sieized the US embassy there keeping people prisoner for a long time, over a year. During that time there was some strife in Iraq, who was already Iran's enemy and since thine enemy's enemy is your friend...... The US helped Saddam get into power there and all went well for a time. Then the Iatollah took over in Iran, which was no better because they still wanted the Shah. They did not give up the prisoners until Reagan got elected, and they weren't about to because they then had a hardon for Carter.

So in an attempt to help "unite" the country the US sold Iraq some nerve gas and shit. It didn't work. Then Iraq found that in Kuwait they were crossdrilling and stealing Iraq's better grade of crude oil. Not really giving a fuck about anyone, they told Saddam that it would be OK for him to attack Kuwait, and then they turned on him. He was pissed.

So they fucked him up in 1991 in an operation called Desert Sword which was quickly remaned Desert Storm because of a Biblical reference. Our army went and reinstalled the gold fixtures in the Kuwaiti bathrooms and shit, taking sides after having fucked their ex buddy Saddam all up a bit. Saddam got more pissed and over the years built up enough wealth to fuck with his former buddies. Right before the second attack on Iraq he had gillions in US currency to burn, almost literally. He was going to strike by switching to the euro, which would've brought the USD down to the levels it enjoys today, especially once he flooded the market. They couldn't have that because there was something left to steal here. Not yet, it wasn't time for that, so it was urgent that this "maniac" be stopped IMMEDIATELY, even though he had done nothing for a long time.

They never gave a fuck about anyone else but themselves, and they never gave a fuck about their own constituents. And Israel, which we seem to owe for some fucking reason was all for it as it would have a positive efect on their security, especially after Iraq did a little bombing over there with outdated scuds that were about worth shit. Israel played their own people too, making the threat look like a big bad wolf, while they were enriching uranium in the Negev desert for decades and already had more nukes than us. But they didn't want to use them because it was a bit too close for comfort, and Iraq still had oil, which needed "our" control.

Think back, why did we bomb Japan and not Germany ? Natural resouces.

Mix that into the equation and it begins to make sense. As does the demise of Milesovic and Diem a while before.

T^T

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:02:50 AM   
jeffy29x


Posts: 20
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline 		Ok so Iran installed a new government, why would that scare us? Why were they a threat? They seriously did not have type of powerful military or high end technology that could possibly pose a real threat to the USA did they?

EDIT: just read the post above this one, so basically we did not like Iran so much that we supported Iraq's attempt to conquer them?


< Message edited by jeffy29x -- 4/26/2011 7:05:54 AM >

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:05:19 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffy29x

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

My recollection was that Ronie and Bush Sr were selling weapons to both sides without the other knowing.

Yeah,that`s right,the cons were selling weapons to the Iranian revolutionary guard/terrorists/douche-bags, if you can believe it.

The two sides just ate each other up for years.It was the devil`s work for sure.The cons seemed delighted with themselves.


When you say recollection, you imply that is something you were aware of at the time? And if this was common knowledge to the American public, how could those two countries possibly not know.

Also, were Iranian guard considered terrorists back then? or just police/soldiers



Yes, we were all aware, unofficially, just google 'arms for hostages'.

SAVAK and the Iranian guard were just a different set of towels and longer black robes......horse apiece. One secular, one religious, all terrorists. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:07:41 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Iran didn't do shit. They just wanted their beloved Shah back. Seems he was torturing people and all that.

T^T

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:08:50 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"all terrorists. "

Now they are, but they weren't.

T^T

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:11:33 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We don't officially back terrorists, like Charlie Wilsons war, nor a nobody commo sergeant named Khaddaffi...  we distance ourselves from those acts.  Wasn't Me.

Shaggy 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:12:27 AM   
jeffy29x


Posts: 20
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffy29x

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

My recollection was that Ronie and Bush Sr were selling weapons to both sides without the other knowing.

Yeah,that`s right,the cons were selling weapons to the Iranian revolutionary guard/terrorists/douche-bags, if you can believe it.

The two sides just ate each other up for years.It was the devil`s work for sure.The cons seemed delighted with themselves.


When you say recollection, you imply that is something you were aware of at the time? And if this was common knowledge to the American public, how could those two countries possibly not know.

Also, were Iranian guard considered terrorists back then? or just police/soldiers



Yes, we were all aware, unofficially, just google 'arms for hostages'.

SAVAK and the Iranian guard were just a different set of towels and longer black robes......horse apiece. One secular, one religious, all terrorists. 


Ok call me crazy, but it is hard to believe that all of the USA was aware of "unofficial arms dealings with Iran and Iraq, but neither of those countries had any idea. Are you basically telling me they are all morons in those countries?

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:14:57 AM   
chiaThePet


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وكان بافالو في الدجاجarby البينية


Translation; The Arby's Buffalo Chicken Sandwich

chia* (the pet)


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Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 7:21:23 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I never said the countries weren't aware of our duplicitous nature. Where did that come from?  When they are lobbing shit at each other and it says U.S. Arsenal and made in Connecticut on it, or Teledyne or FMC Corporation, and so on,   they sooner or later figure out where it came from.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 1:12:24 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffy29x

Ok call me crazy, but it is hard to believe that all of the USA was aware of "unofficial arms dealings with Iran and Iraq, but neither of those countries had any idea. Are you basically telling me they are all morons in those countries?




No no, not reading in order there. I can understand from reading the thread though.

Taking 66 US hostages and holding them for 444 days and releasing them almost immediately after the new US president was inaugurated just to rub it in tends to piss people off quite a lot, and so it was in the US.

All parties public and private knew about the US support to Iraq, if not necessarily the nastiness of some of the chemical weapons included.

The secret arms to Iran occurred in '85'-86 I think, while under an arms embargo. The deal was supposedly an arms for hostages being held in Lebanon exchange. Hussein wasn't nearly as cooperative to US interests as they were hoping he would be, and so they didn't mind playing both sides. Not unprecedented for a larger nation to play both sides in a conflict such as this anyway. Iraq might have caught on eventually, but the whole thing didn't go on for long before being blown by a reporter in the Mideast. Then everybody knew and Reagan had to go on TV and explain.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/26/2011 1:14:00 PM >

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 1:17:38 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

We supported him ass counterweight to the Islamic Republic of Iran as they were perceived as the larger threat.


That worked out for us pretty well, huh?

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 1:23:29 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
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Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair

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RE: Biggest mistake in recent American history - 4/26/2011 2:47:29 PM   
jeffy29x


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Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I never said the countries weren't aware of our duplicitous nature. Where did that come from?  When they are lobbing shit at each other and it says U.S. Arsenal and made in Connecticut on it, or Teledyne or FMC Corporation, and so on,   they sooner or later figure out where it came from.


In your original post you quoted it was said the US govt was selling Iran and Iraq both weapons without the other knowing. That is where I am getting that from.

< Message edited by jeffy29x -- 4/26/2011 2:48:31 PM >

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