RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males?

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crazyml -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/1/2011 2:00:19 PM)
For the love of god. You're talking utter nonsense. Utter nonsense. You cannot draw a sensible conclusion on the "nature" of human gender relations by observing Bonobo monkeys. But do keep on chipping in, it's mighty entertaining.

crazyml -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/1/2011 2:08:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness "Everybody Loves Raymond" has a lot to answer for. I've got to take my hat off to you for this one - I couldn't agree more. quote: I think natural law is a furphy. Evolutionary psychology is probably a better idea - and that which conveys advantage in an evolutionary sense probably tallies with what we consider aspirational. It's how we're wired. Sure, I'm with you here - the generalised "Natural Law" argument is a load of horse shit, and sure - evolutionary psychology has to have some of the answers, but surely you'd acknowledge that Nurture plays a role along side "Nature"?

Wheldrake -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/1/2011 2:19:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 I'm still trying to get a handle on the subject matter of this thread. Specifically, I'm wondering just how consistent this idea is and whether it continues outside of domestic relations and across society in general. You'd need a large data set to be sure, but in general - yes. Human beings implicitly categorise. It's a survival skill and we naturally toss people into buckets which see them as aspirational or unworthy. This seems like a deeply weird dichotomy. There are lots of people who are not very aspirational but are nevertheless highly capable and useful to society - people who go to work, do their jobs and do them well, and then go home and have dinner. Would you really consider people like that to be "unworthy" just because they're satisfied with their circumstances rather than constantly pursuing a bigger salary or a hotter spouse or whatever? I think you're making a bit too much of a fetish out of "aspiration". But then, I'm just a contemptible submissive male.[8\|]

Zonie63 -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/1/2011 2:31:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness You'd need a large data set to be sure, but in general - yes. Human beings implicitly categorise. It's a survival skill and we naturally toss people into buckets which see them as aspirational or unworthy. There are other buckets as well - who's likely to be a threat, who we'd fuck and so on. I can see what you're saying. I think most of us do this in our day to day dealings. I'm not sure where you live, but where I live, there are some pretty seedy areas where one has to be wary and maintain a good level of street sense. That's just good practice for anyone, to maintain awareness of one's surrounding and any potentially threatening situations. I think that's an example of where one's survival skills kick in. As far as who is aspirational or unworthy, I think that may be more of a judgment call based on one's own personal values. Sure, we might make little unconscious judgments as we pass by different people day to day. I'm not sure if that's really natural or due to cultural conditioning, something akin to the "nerds vs. the jocks." quote: No, I'd say the large problem in the USA is that any form of collectivism has been replaced by the enshrining of the individual - which wouldn't be so bad if so many of the individuals in question weren't so mindbogglingly stupid. Texas for example. You could get rid of Texas and no-one would miss it. Really. The USA has a lot of problems largely rooted in a widespread mentality of people wanting to have their cake and eat it, too. The only reason we've been able to actually do it for so long is because of the extremely wealthy and fortunate position we were in just after World War II. But now it's time to pay the piper. Texas isn't so bad. Each state has its fair share of stupidity. quote: In my case it does, but the typical mainstream male thus represented is a caricature which flatters the pretensions of women more than anything else. "Everybody Loves Raymond" has a lot to answer for. I never really could get into that show. quote: I think natural law is a furphy. Evolutionary psychology is probably a better idea - and that which conveys advantage in an evolutionary sense probably tallies with what we consider aspirational. It's how we're wired. I had to look up "furphy." Never heard that word before. I can see what you're saying. I think that humans are bit more complex, though. I don't believe that everyone sees things through the same lens. It's all in the eye of the beholder. It may be more a matter of taste or preference, just like different flavors of ice cream.

PeonForHer -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/1/2011 5:32:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy peon is a rarity. A drop of masculinity in a sea of pussies. I make snap decisions on groups of people all the time. Thank you DG, but that's crap. By my own lights there are any number of more masculine submales using this board, plus more than that again amongst those that I've met in RT. Just saying.

AneNoz -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/2/2011 12:27:16 AM)
quote: Thank you DG, but that's crap. By my own lights there are any number of more masculine submales using this board, plus more than that again amongst those that I've met in RT. Just saying. I cannot judge which is the more masculine as I do not know those involved, but I would happily wager a substantial sum that very few would have a torso as pleasing to the eye as do you PeonForHer. Be at peace Aneka

DesFIP -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/2/2011 5:29:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AneNoz quote: Thank you DG, but that's crap. By my own lights there are any number of more masculine submales using this board, plus more than that again amongst those that I've met in RT. Just saying. I cannot judge which is the more masculine as I do not know those involved, but I would happily wager a substantial sum that very few would have a torso as pleasing to the eye as do you PeonForHer. Be at peace Aneka And I doubt anyone of them have as hot a voice. I could listen to Peon read labels off a can happily.

OttersSwim -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/2/2011 7:24:20 AM)
And you know, I am not done here... I have watched this cowardly back-door innuendo and slighting attacks against LadyP going on for several pages. Your behavior here is more typical of a 16 year old catty girl than a mature male dominant. If you have a fucking problem with Lady Pact, why don't you and Awareness just pony up your balls and actually confront her directly rather than using snide little inference comments in your posts? Lookin' for plausible deniability? And why is it that a fucking male girlie-boy submissive has to come in to the Masters forum and call bullshit on this catty high-school teeny-bopper behavior from "Masters" after it goes on for multiple pages and several days?! I mean, Fuck!

ModTwentyOne -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/2/2011 10:08:20 AM)
Let's take a breather. Personal attacks will be removed when I have time to review all 224 posts.

OttersSwim -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/2/2011 10:33:19 AM)
With all due respect Mod21, why delete the evidence of bullshit behavior and give these people a pass? Let it stand for all to see and be aware of who they are really dealing with. It is of course your decision, but this was not nice and I for one would rather it were not glossed over and we all pretend it did not happen...

Jeffff -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/2/2011 10:36:40 AM)
Not to mention that I have not even had a chance to derail this thread.

VideoAdminAlpha -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/2/2011 12:19:28 PM)
I am the one that reviewed it, and just because the evidence is not there for you to see, they are not giving a free pass. I will say this;for a bunch of supposed grown ups there are a few of you that should be ashamed of yourself. Just in case you don't know who you are, you will be receiving mail from me later so there is no misunderstanding.

Awareness -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/2/2011 12:20:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Sure, I'm with you here - the generalised "Natural Law" argument is a load of horse shit, and sure - evolutionary psychology has to have some of the answers, but surely you'd acknowledge that Nurture plays a role along side "Nature"? Of course. Which is why it's difficult not to see sub males as victims of some kind of pathology in their environment. If there's a genetic issue which drops their testosterone count, then of course they're simply not going to be as masculine and aggressive as their counterparts. But if you're rockin' the full set of testes, any environment which doesn't allow the full development of your masculinity is inhibiting your capability. I think that's what really bothers me. Why settle for crumbs when you're capable of so much more - when your genetic legacy gives you the potential for so much force, drive, will to do. To see that potential squandered by grovelling at the feet of a woman who understands nothing of what it means to be a man tells me they've simply given up. And nobody likes a quitter. People justify this by saying "Hey, if they're happy, then who cares?" - Fuck that. It's not whether they're happy today, but whether they're capable of generating their own happiness on an ongoing basis. And I see little to indicate they can do this. It all seems to hinge on the whims of the women they encounter. That's no way to live.

PeonForHer -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/3/2011 12:40:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim And you know, I am not done here... I have watched this cowardly back-door innuendo and slighting attacks against LadyP going on for several pages. Your behavior here is more typical of a 16 year old catty girl than a mature male dominant. If you have a fucking problem with Lady Pact, why don't you and Awareness just pony up your balls and actually confront her directly rather than using snide little inference comments in your posts? Lookin' for plausible deniability? Yes . . . 'catty girl behaviour' was the phrase that jumped to my mind, too. Also, and to employ the buzzword of this thread, somewhat contemptible.

Selectivelight -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/3/2011 12:52:50 PM)
... Wow, having sat back and watched this run for a few days... I actually feel a lot better about my own flaws. At the very least, I was man enough to own up to them...

LadyPact -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/4/2011 1:20:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness As the simplest example - Doms who construct elaborate titles for themselves are rightfully regarded with a good deal of scepticism, simply because such titles are vain attempts at self-glorification. Yet Dommes engage in such narcissistic nonsense with consistency. How many Dommes self-style themselves as Goddesses. It's so astonishingly consistent it's cliche. I remember when I first came here being phenomenally amused at the attempts Dommes made to try and bolster their self-image. The stuff in their signature lines made me howl with laughter. When a woman tries to advertise herself as a "big bad dominant" in her signature, what she's trying to say is: "This is how I want you to perceive me. Go on... believe me... believe me! Please!" It is patently obvious to me, that such are painfully limited in their thinking - which limits their perception and definitely demonstrates a lack of self-awareness. What happened, Awareness? Did I touch a nerve in My earlier post? It's not like you to shoot jabs when I'm not here to spar with you personally. For the record, the sig line used to read precisely this: "The big, bad, Dominant of Oz..... Pay no attention to the woman behind the curtain." Truthfully, I'm a bit surprised at your own lack of awareness in the meaning behind the thing. Haven't you said that you know some Dominant women in your personal life? Didn't any of them talk to you about the image of the Dominant woman and the challenges associated with that? How people think they know you because they can recognize a face or they have heard about whatever presentation that they gave recently? Most Dominant men don't have to deal with that unless they are well known. For Dominant women, it happens all of the time. There for a while, more people knew Me by things that I had done or by recognizing My picture than actually knew Me. Oh, they all knew My name and knew My reputation, but they had no idea that I was just a regular chick. The image was starting to become bigger than I was and I wasn't really happy with that. The sig line wasn't an attempt to impress anyone with My Dominance, My sadism, or anything else. It was to remind people that I was just a normal gal behind the hype. That was the woman behind the curtain part. A person of your intelligence should have caught that.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/4/2011 7:20:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact What happened, Awareness? Did I touch a nerve in My earlier post? It's not like you to shoot jabs when I'm not here to spar with you personally. For the record, the sig line used to read precisely this: "The big, bad, Dominant of Oz..... Pay no attention to the woman behind the curtain." Truthfully, I'm a bit surprised at your own lack of awareness in the meaning behind the thing. Haven't you said that you know some Dominant women in your personal life? Didn't any of them talk to you about the image of the Dominant woman and the challenges associated with that? How people think they know you because they can recognize a face or they have heard about whatever presentation that they gave recently? Most Dominant men don't have to deal with that unless they are well known. For Dominant women, it happens all of the time. There for a while, more people knew Me by things that I had done or by recognizing My picture than actually knew Me. Oh, they all knew My name and knew My reputation, but they had no idea that I was just a regular chick. The image was starting to become bigger than I was and I wasn't really happy with that. The sig line wasn't an attempt to impress anyone with My Dominance, My sadism, or anything else. It was to remind people that I was just a normal gal behind the hype. That was the woman behind the curtain part. A person of your intelligence should have caught that. It's posts like these that make me adore LadyP.

ArizonaBossMan -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/4/2011 7:22:15 AM)
to the question: YES.

LadyPact -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/4/2011 9:08:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OttersSwim And you know, I am not done here... I have watched this cowardly back-door innuendo and slighting attacks against LadyP going on for several pages. Your behavior here is more typical of a 16 year old catty girl than a mature male dominant. If you have a fucking problem with Lady Pact, why don't you and Awareness just pony up your balls and actually confront her directly rather than using snide little inference comments in your posts? Lookin' for plausible deniability? And why is it that a fucking male girlie-boy submissive has to come in to the Masters forum and call bullshit on this catty high-school teeny-bopper behavior from "Masters" after it goes on for multiple pages and several days?! I mean, Fuck! Otters, you are the very definition of gallant. Have I ever told you that? With the Moderators indulgence, this might be exactly what this thread has been missing. While I mean no offense to the OP, the question itself was misleading. See, it's one thing to ask a general question about a stereotype. It's another thing to ask a question as it relates to a person or people. The dissenters on this thread haven't quite been able to do that. Courage is an easy thing when someone's back is turned. Not so much so when a person looks another in the face.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/4/2011 9:14:26 AM)
I doubt I feel contempt for anyone or anything. However, I have no time in my life for passive aggressive, responsibility-avoiding whiny bitches, no matter their gender, or how they sexually identify.

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