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aromanholiday -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (5/7/2011 1:56:36 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Awareness
I understand that, although I think the issue is more that there's a difference between a dominant and a simple kinkster. The classic example of this is when someone jumps onto a thread and asks questions about "learning" to become a Dom or a Master. Both the question itself and the responses which advise people on the various things they should "learn" indicate a mindset which thinks being a Dom consists of learning the right codewords, associating with the right people and undergoing the right training.
On the contrary, being Dominant is purely about character attributes, not learning how to wield a whip. That is, if someone wishes to become a Dom or Master, the only route is to despise weakness and develop your internal strength. To become utterly self-reliant and insistent upon seeing reality as clearly as possible.
Yes, it is very weird to think you can learn a natural emotional inclination or attitude, particularly a sexual inclination, through skills training. You either feel it and find your own way or you don't. This is true of submissives and slaves as well, I think.
When you say the only route is to despise weakness, do you just mean weakness in yourself? If you despise weakness in general, then don't you despise the very people (submissives) you are attracted to?
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Increasingly, I'm finding women who say "I want an actual MAN goddamit". There's a strong movement afoot to diminish the differences between the sexes as much as possible and the resulting emasculation of men has turned out a generation of whiny milksops who are taught to be ashamed of their masculinity. These men are not attractive to many of the women I encounter.
To be fair to that type of man, the pressures of the women's movement had a lot to do with their changes. They were indoctrinated with the idea that if they wanted a female they had to behave in this new conciliatory metrosexual emotionally-sensitive (or, as you more directly put it--milksop) way. I remember the ways men used to act/think in the 60s--it was quite different. Songs of that decade (and ones prior to it) were full of sexist and power references. The Rolling Stones were notorious for this, but even the seemingly sweet and clean-cut early Beatles had songs about killing a girl who cheated on them or firmly hunting down and bringing a girlfriend back if she ran away and her loving the singer all the more for it. Even that MOR icon Tom Jones sang, in praise of a woman "And she always knows her place...she can take what I dish out..." etc. Those were different times. But people always adapt to their environment and times and I think many men have felt the only way to adapt was to act more like women wanted to them to act, which was...more like a woman. :( And yes, now there is little bit of a backlash starting. Now there are women who want the men who grew up with feminist ideology breathing down their throats and threatening them with lawsuits as well as no pussy to be more manly. But most men (I don't speak of natural dominants now) won't start being more manly until or unless the overall climate changes in favor of that. Sadly, I don't see that happening any time soon. I suppose this backlash is good for dominant men; it will make them more in demand.
The movement to diminish the differences between the sexes is very strong among the upper-middle-class intellectual elite. It's probably so in blue collar environments too, but I am not directly exposed to those. I work around highly skilled technicians (programmers) and the mathematically elite (research). The men and the women of this well-paid and privledged class which does not have to meet the public all dress the same: relaxed, casual, almost scruffy (jeans, t-shirts with funny or obscure slogans, old sweaters for the air conditioned environment, no makeup, skirts, perfume, strongly styled hair, or jewelry except occasionally ear posts on the women, occasionally cologne on the men if they're not from the US, but they quickly learn "better," and so on). Looking nerdish and unattractive is cool in these places. If you didn't see the little bumps on some chests and the slightly longer hair and shorter statures you'd not know by the dress code which were men and which were women. Interestingly enough, a good number of the men have stay-at-home wives, and when I meet these women at company events, most of them seem pleasingly and naturally female. This might be due to the international nature of the company: the talent it needs is pulled from every corner of the globe, and not all of these corners are as gender-equality-conscious as Americans are.
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Power has long been considered a dirty word, especially in some of the more conservative arenas, even while the use and abuse of it by those who vilify it has shattering consequences. The reality is that it's a fundamental tenet of our existence as a species and our psychology makes the acquisition of it necessary to achieve goals. As a consequence, we never stop playing that game, no matter how much we might fool ourselves otherwise.
There is a song about this. :) I like the way it promotes insurrection. People may think that is naive, but if applied cleverly and by those with an intimate understanding of how cultural and institutional power works, it can succeed spectacularly. The Civil Rights and Anti-Vietnam war movements in the US are prime examples of this. I once knew someone who was deeply involved in those two "wars." He was a master strategist, and also a master, unsurprisingly.
I agree with you that even if you claim you do not play the power game, you still have to play it, at least to a small extent, to insure your or your family's personal survival. The more conscious you are of the game, even if you despise it, the more latitude you have to choose a course through this mess that reflects who you are and what you need, rather than letting that choice be made for you.
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That power is a fundamental element in intimate relationships is a reality that some seem unable to confront.
Mm-hmm. It's something I notice a great deal among people involved in bdsm, which is the last place one would expect to find such such shyness or desire to not think too closely about the subject.
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