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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/24/2011 8:22:20 PM   
BiSalemOR


Posts: 15
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline 		I have contempt for arrogant rude domineering men. If they are just nice and dominant without the "gods gift to everyone else" complex then I am ok with them.  Usually the ones I can't stand are the ones that have many more problems than I do and more serious and I think of them as less than me.

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/26/2011 12:42:07 PM   
81song


Posts: 293
Joined: 1/22/2005
Status: offline 		Not at all...as a matter of fact I got some nice toys from one guy that was really cool.. He gave me a set of arm restraints.  

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/26/2011 4:55:00 PM   
errantgeek


Posts: 156
Joined: 6/20/2011
Status: offline 		No. Having contempt for someone purely on the basis of their gender or role is stupid and prejudicial.

I do, however, have contempt for douchebags, which is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with a person's gender or role.

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/27/2011 12:24:12 PM   
Back2theFuture


Posts: 183
Joined: 4/19/2011
Status: offline 		I think the question is far to general.

You can pretty much separate Doms into two categories: Those who are dicks and those who are not.

For the dicks yeah there is some contempt, but its not because they are Dom, its because they are big dicks with short penises. Many of those kinds of "Dom" are really only using BDSM as an easy out for sex with out having to really try for it or reciprocate. 

What erks me is that a lot of those kinds of "Dom" seem to think that because they are dominate and you are submissive you have to bow to them. That isn't so and I have actually kicked a few "Dom's" teeth down their throats because they needed to learn THEIR place.

The not dicks Doms are usually pretty cool. Great guys to hang out with and goof off with.

A large problem with this question is that you assume that Submissive men are always submissive or submissive to all.
Many submissive men are exactly the opposite in their daily lives.
For example I and submissive to beautiful and wonderful women and to extremely submissive and non manly things, BUT my alter ego(YAY SUPER HERO REFERANCE!) spars and fights(and wins) with guys who are easily twice my size, and works at being the best at whatever else I do and have no troubles with getting women.

S&M in my option is more of a pecking order. While I don't think all of one gender or race or group is superior to another I believe that some people are more superior to another. While I am submissive to my Mistress all others are still bellow me.

So yeah you can be a dominate man while I am submissive, but I am still the alpha dog.


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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/27/2011 1:59:57 PM   
milfyclass


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/26/2011
From: NY
Status: offline 		Depends on whether you want the world to be Paternalistic or Maternalistic. It's a male dominant world isn't it? We're slowly but gradually coming into the 21st century. I'd understand that those true male subs that adore women and prefer a more feminine energy to rule the world, would hate dominant males.

Just the same as male 'Doms' would have contempt and pity of sub men or males deferring power to women or worshipping a Goddess. We've had God worshiping for many a millenia, and it hasn't really worked out the best at the worst of time.

Would there really have been such atrocities and repetition of mistakes in history if there wasn't a male dominated elite and a disproportion of masculine energy?

MilfyClass.
P.S. Interesting and very telling that the word 'Maternalistic' but not 'Paternalistic' is underlined in red dots denoting it requires a spellcheck! LOL


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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/27/2011 2:47:13 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: milfyclass

Depends on whether you want the world to be Paternalistic or Maternalistic.


It absolutely doesn't depend on either, for this submale. Those two terms make up some godawful false dichotomy of which I want no part whatsoever.

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/27/2011 2:59:23 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		Not comtempt....however those that would not LOOK me in the eye when I was new were the ones I stayed away from by my *gut*instincts*...and after awhile I saw what I thought...

contempt is a very harsh word....

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/27/2011 3:01:22 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet


Who else is going to kill the spiders?

chia* (the pet)



*grabs chia around the neck and squeezes a lil as I pull him to me*
chiaaaaaa...good to see your still around,slut...
hope all is well in your world...

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/28/2011 4:25:44 AM   
overlap


Posts: 2
Joined: 12/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'd understand that those true male subs that adore women and prefer a more feminine energy to rule the world, would hate dominant males.


That's certainly true of me.

However, I also know that a lot of women (and I respect women) like dominant guys. So I don't know what I think...

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/28/2011 5:03:55 AM   
milfyclass


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/26/2011
From: NY
Status: offline 		Hmm interesting. Would like to know more.

If I were to guess, or say my first thought then it'd be this: So you believe it's a non-issue and think it's a corruption in the debate. I'm just finding it hard to imagine how one can live in some reality without something so 'there' and burdensome. It's like wishing there was no gender or identity. It just is to me.

What ever labels are placed on it, it's got to be there.

Off Topic: I just think the world would be better in a more feminine/maternal or Matriarchal world. Seems a more evolved way. Patriarchy has it's good points that can be seen and useful to a female supreme world too. Just that it's dying out and any slip from the grasp of power it fights back more.

Anyhow, for a military analogy, Patriarchy is shock and awe, and well Matriarchy wouldn't really be in military but would be say a more surgical special forces type, justice done.

So to answer the OP, I say switch it around. Would most insecure macho men have utter contempt for dominant women? You bet! In fact they'd fight so hard, even going to destroy the whole world just so women couldn't have the power - as they know they'd be the true submissives in the end. Just sayin', many a bruised ego with those sadistic dom men (whether their fathers taught them that way, or their mothers abused them, and so now it's their way to control their life and feel sane by being a dom in adult life. Not all though, exceptions to the rule. Just as shrinks have a strong theory that many gay men have an innate contempt or hatred and desire for revenge for their mothers, and lesbians with fathers).

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/28/2011 5:17:43 AM   
Arieno


Posts: 32
Joined: 2/4/2011
Status: offline 		Contempt…I as a male submissive do not characterize male dominants as worthless, inferior or unworthy of respect, so contempt would not be the word I would use. Certainly though, many male dominants are worthy of a very humbling and painful awakening.


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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/28/2011 10:07:31 AM   
errantgeek


Posts: 156
Joined: 6/20/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: milfyclass

Depends on whether you want the world to be Paternalistic or Maternalistic. It's a male dominant world isn't it? We're slowly but gradually coming into the 21st century. I'd understand that those true male subs that adore women and prefer a more feminine energy to rule the world, would hate dominant males.


I think that's a bit of a misconception, really. I'm a pretty radical egalitarian, and I don't believe the world should be inherently either because that relies upon a framework of gender inequality. Additionally, relying upon those two classifications alone does not encompass (and indeed, marginalizes) genders other than basic masculine and feminine archetypes.

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/28/2011 10:12:11 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: errantgeek
I think that's a bit of a misconception, really. I'm a pretty radical egalitarian, and I don't believe the world should be inherently either because that relies upon a framework of gender inequality. Additionally, relying upon those two classifications alone does not encompass (and indeed, marginalizes) genders other than basic masculine and feminine archetypes.


Nicely put.

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/29/2011 8:58:06 AM   
milfyclass


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/26/2011
From: NY
Status: offline 		ErrantGeek: Yes! Good point, very much agree. Would you agree though it's a pendulum swing. That by pushing for it to sway the other way, and with such fierce resistance and inherent/in-built systems, it'd take decades of concerted effort, or centuries of natural 'progression' just to get it to the middle, or egalitarian as you propose.

Negotiation tactic. If we just pushed for egalitarian style we'd end up with a quasi-egalitarian world rather than a full one. So by pushing more we then settle into the middle.

Nice to know there are men out there, especially younger generation wanting this.

< Message edited by milfyclass -- 6/29/2011 9:01:27 AM >

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/29/2011 12:25:10 PM   
errantgeek


Posts: 156
Joined: 6/20/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: milfyclass

Would you agree though it's a pendulum swing.


No, not in the least. So long as gender politics are approached with dichotomy -- the "pendulum" as you put it -- people who don't fit basic masculine and feminine archetypes will be marginalized by merit of the very framework. Moreover, you phrase it in terms of competition between said masculine and feminine archetype which may be descriptively correct, but normatively incorrect at least in my opinion and what pertains to this line of conversation. There ought be no competition on the basis of gender for political power at all, as so long as there is competition no matter which side currently holds sway there will be a disenfranchised party and inequality which follows.

Now, we could probably argue all day about how to best achieve that end, but the very act of framing gender issues as a competition for power is inherently the problem.

< Message edited by errantgeek -- 6/29/2011 12:26:40 PM >

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/30/2011 1:24:48 AM   
overlap


Posts: 2
Joined: 12/15/2006
Status: offline 		I second what errantgeek said. It needs a paradigm shift (cliche alert); not a 'swing'.

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/30/2011 5:59:54 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: errantgeek
There ought be no competition on the basis of gender for political power at all, as so long as there is competition no matter which side currently holds sway there will be a disenfranchised party and inequality which follows.

Now, we could probably argue all day about how to best achieve that end, but the very act of framing gender issues as a competition for power is inherently the problem.


so yeah, i think errantgeek is onto something.
A+ for you!


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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 6/30/2011 8:07:04 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: milfyclass

Hmm interesting. Would like to know more.


The thing is, milfyclass, there's now a broad and very entrenched acceptance of the principle of the individual, not any given group of people, as the crucial unit to be considered in an ethical, political or social context. The upshot of this is that there isn't any way of formulating a 'matriarchal philosophy' that can be actualized - put into real-world practice.

Here's an example. Say that there's broad agreement that women should have lead men. How is that principle going to work in any given, day-to-day situation? Say you have one woman, Ms X, and three men all applying for a job to run the Physics department in a school. Do you give the job to Ms X, who has no experience of teaching Physics at all, or to one of the males, one of whom is called Prof Einstein and has proven himself rather good at Physics in the past?

If you go for the woman, on the basis that 'women should lead', then you will have literally been acting out of prejudice. You'll have *prejudged* her to be the better leader on the basis of her sex. In principle it wouldn't be any different to choosing someone for the job on the basis of his/her race. Thus, most people agree that the only fair way and reasonable way to choose that new person to run the Physics department - or to lead anything else in society - is on the basis of any given person's individual qualities (or lack thereof).

Now, if you were to say, 'We need to recognise feminine qualities much more, and prioritise those much more in our search for leadership roles' - then I might well agree. But, again, we're stuck with the same problem of actualizing that in reality. Women, as a whole, may well have feminine qualities in greater abundance than men, as a whole. But you're not looking for either sex 'as a whole' to take any given leadership role, you're looking for *one individual*. What do you do if you have two candidates for a counsellor's job at a school - one of whom is a Mrs L. Borgia, the other of whom is a Mr St Peter?

What it boils down to is this: what we don't need is new prejudices on the basis of which we can organise our societies. What we *do* need, I think, is more reason, and more fairness, about organising society on the basis of human qualities that we want, rather than the presumed, and prejudged, 'holders' of those human qualities - be those holders of said qualities whites, middle-class people, men or women.


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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 7/4/2011 11:31:24 AM   
milfyclass


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/26/2011
From: NY
Status: offline 		Hmm. Guess education does have some significant role in power for future generations. Physicists are predominately men. So, not really a great example but I get your point. (Would be good to see more women get into physics, theoretical especially. It's has a rather feminine energy to it when you think about it. Milky Way and those myths etc. Birth of new stars. Then again violent explosions and heat etcetera are seen are male/yang. Anyhow. It's all about the balance.) Meritocracy still would reign. Of course if said 'Mr Einstein' is a bit of a feminist or sympathetic to a more feminine way, then that's great. A bonus or perhaps a necessity. Think many physicists and mathematicians are in awe of 'Mother Nature' just as biologist etcetera may be too.

It's not so much as just filling gender quotas, but more to support them into taking on roles in commerce, politics, industry, and diplomacy. Those areas of society admittedly have more leverage in power and determining fates etcetera. Whether or not people still believe in glass ceilings, not only sexism still exists but also ageism.

It just amazes me that those companies that have a greater proportion of women tend to do better than if it's just 90% men and the women just in secretarial roles. Investing and trading firms have seen this that women tend to see things differently and not focus so much on themself and ego - so yearly returns can be just as high as men investing. It's just the way the brain is and character/upbringing. Men tend to be stubborn and stick to it, letting the trade lose money and begging for it to come back up again. Women will cut their losses and move onto a better trading opportunity. Interestingly they're more rational then men in trading and finance.

Being that most of the developed world follows capitalistic principles and markets, finance and business is a very powerful system to control. It's dominated by men. They run the companies and hire the managers and who for example choose the still sexist boringly childish silly marketing and advertising campaigns. Despite women controlling, deciding and spending most of the consumer dollar, men are still choosing how to position their products etcetera, not surprisingly and obviously focused on them and the stereotypes.

For example, great ad campaigns targeted to women are few and far between and can be counted on one hand. Marketing is just to remind us what to think and buy, that we may already know or agree with or desire.

The consumer is not stupid, though some are. Until business and commerce change, I don't think we'll see much difference in society. They reflect what we think and want to think as well as influence how we will think.

Since the early 2000s we've seen a huge surge in acceptance and popularity of Mature Women. Or for the men, still wanting to dominate, 'cougars' and 'M.I.L.Fs' [it makes me cringe when I hear that pornography have 28 year old bleach blonds with fake breasts, and no longer stick thing and wrinkle-free act as the 'MILF'.] '40 is the new 30' are some of the silly slogans to help promote some of these silly trend-niche products & services: BOTOX, 'anti-aging', cosmetics/makeup, plastic surgery, shapeware. Also some movies and media have been just some of the things to come out of this 'trend' and 'market segment' for 'soccer moms' and Mature Women etcetera.

Take the 'Dove Beautiful' campaigns. It worked well enough. Though so many have missed the point and many are still focused on men. Of course beer is targeted at men, but more women are drinking beer now too. Yet ads are focused on the 20-something chubby unattractive male. The mother of their friend coming on to them etcetera. Men will still drink beer despites TV ads. However I'd bet that more women would also drink it if it were not for the male focused and insulting stereotypes of attractive dumb girls fawning of those same young chubby unshaven men.

Many other areas can be used. Religions- men. Medicine- men. Law/judiciary- men. Yet these areas would be and are naturally just as well if not more suited to women. Who did you go to for advice and mentoring when you were younger? A mother or sympathetic woman. Yet women are seen as less able to 'interpret' sacred texts etcetera. They're seen as distractions and best suited to just running the catering or newsletter of the church for example. As a child who did you go to when you got a cut or scrape? Yet again, somehow even in gynecology men dominate (which is a bit understandable!) But women are naturally nurturing. They're instinctive in health. Especially mothers. Nurses often know just as much as doctors, but just advise the male doctor to help make decisions, and get paid less for it. Justice? Who was most patient to listen and fair in punishment? Yep!

Phew. Now please pick the post apart. I'm interested. Think this will result in this much needed paradigm shift?

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RE: Sub guys: Do you have contempt for dominant men? - 7/4/2011 7:41:54 PM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		only those who think they're superior to me, otherwise i'm indifferent

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