Knowledge

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CERCKL -> Knowledge (5/10/2006 9:55:10 AM)
I just read a posting regarding 'technique' and the need to communicate...something which I am curious about is...if you are doing something, don't you as a Dom, or a sub, or just as a person, want to know what you are doing? If you are into certain aspects of edgeplay, or just sexual in nature or perhaps just intellectual, don't you want to understand? Myself, I haven't used whips personally, but if I do, I want to know a basic understanding of anatomy, which areas are vulnurable and could be damaged, as well as working on practicing with the instrument to get a certain degree of control before I would tie someone up and flog them... If I am going to guide someone's personal development; I need to have some understanding of them, as well as some basic understanding of the mind, perception, ability to learn, techniques to guide...as well as the subject itself. If I am to be trusted, not only do I need to show that I am trustworthy, but I need to continuously learn, grow, develop myself before I can accept control from another...as well as I need to take responsibility of where I lack in knowledge, seek information, continue... Still, I keep finding these threads stating that this doesn't seem to be the case...if mine is to truly be owned by me, the awareness seems to me to need to continue...if honesty, devotion, submission is to be desired then I need to be worthy of that completely. Not just be arrogant, assertive, bullying and bulling my way through situations... Well, just curious, need to get my car fixed... C

mnottertail -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 10:12:38 AM)
Well, whips is a good example of something that you should have alot of practice in, before you let 'er fly, it can tear the hide right offen ya... However with a modicum of smarts, some things can be engaged in without total understanding, I have never felt a penis being inserted into my vagina but I get the general gimmick. I had thought of writing a long discourse and warming to this subject but I am too indolent of spirit to accomplish it. I turn on the TV and rotate the knobs and know I get Captain Kangaroo when they are adjusted correctly.........how it actually works on the intimate level, I have no care or need to know.....some of those things that are done are in this catagory..... For someone, it might be being called a dirty cum guzzling piss whore. For another it might be saying I have 97 acres, who's gonna hear you scream? For another....... Not everyone can get the baccalaurette in toys from BDSM U. Not everyone has a psychology degree, not everyone is a pre-med anatomist. We all start somewhere, and we hope that we use some moderation and stepwise refinement in our affairs. Overly simplified, I know. Ron

CERCKL -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 10:19:27 AM)
Thank you, I enjoy your posts...but it's been awhile since I've seen one which wasn't stream of consciousness DaDaist... Point isn't we need to know everything (Your tv still has knobs? Cool.)or how it works...in some part I am very inquisitive, curious and in my late teens, early twenties I had to accept I wouldn't 'know' everything I wanted to. Still, if I am going to mindfuck to accomplish something, I need to know a little...if I am going to get into physical control, I should have a rudimentary understanding of the body...if I am going to pour a back porch, it helps if I know how to set a simple form...and do I need rebar? Should I cure the form before the pour? What is a form? Again, I don't need to know everything, but the basics help...even if it's as simple as how do I turn the knob on the TV to find Captain Kangaroo...just staring at the screen doesn't accomplish my goal. C

fastlane -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 10:24:30 AM)
knowledge can be a dangerous thing........................which is why so many here are perfectly safe! Smiles, Kevin

CrappyDom -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 10:28:37 AM)
CERKYL, Most aren't as saintly as you are, any submissive would be lucky to find someone as insightful as you are. That said, look at how few vanilla men or women have any real clue about their own sexuality, let alone their partners. How many people do any real self exploration, and not knowing themselves, how can they really start to know anyone else? So, not knowing what you don't know, you then can't realize there is more to others. It's a sad truth, but a truth none the less.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 10:41:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom That said, look at how few vanilla men or women have any real clue about their own sexuality, let alone their partners. I don't notice a difference in this between vanillas and people in bdsm. I've typed out a nice long insightful response to this explaining how I'm teaching my local partner how to flog...but my computer keeps freezing so I'll just try later maybe.

BitaTruble -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 10:51:28 AM)
quote: I just read a posting regarding 'technique' and the need to communicate...something which I am curious about is...if you are doing something, don't you as a Dom, or a sub, or just as a person, want to know what you are doing? If you are into certain aspects of edgeplay, or just sexual in nature or perhaps just intellectual, don't you want to understand? Absolutely! I've always held the belief that I can't serve very well if I don't know who it is that I'm serving. Even in the simplest of areas.. say, buying Himself a candy bar. Plain or peanut? Dark or Milk? Taking the initiative to find things out.. some call that being 'trained' but I certainly don't need any sort of training to 'want' to learn more about the man whom I call Master and that does boil down to communication. I ask a lot of questions, I observe him closely to see what his reactions are to certain stimulus.. sort of like a stalker - and take the knowledge I have of him to anticipate what he wants and needs. Don't get me wrong, I think it's important to learn which areas of the body can be damaged if they are hit to hard and a knife in the hands of the uninitiated can be deadly in a rather permanent way and it's important to know such things, but long after Himself and I have the ability to move around freely.. as old age over takes us, we will still have a mind to mind connection which grows richer through the years. I adore S/m from either end and after all these years, I have a fairly high tolerance for pain, but one day, the skin is going to be too thin, the bones to brittle and kneeling is going to be a distant memory.. with a little bit of luck, I'll still be able to pull off some massive mindfucks.. or, even better.. Himself will be able to pull them off on me. It's only by understanding what makes me tick that he's able to do so. Celeste

spankmepink11 -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 10:59:48 AM)
I think it helps a great deal to have not only working knowledge of ones toys and the effects of using them, but of the human body as well... In my opinion...the knowledge of such not only protects the health and welfare of the submissive...but enhances the effectiveness of the tools used, ie....whips...restraints....etc.

MHOO314 -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 11:10:35 AM)
CERCKL, I love your posts these days, so very thought provoking---and ron---BITE ME IDIOT----(that's a private joke between he and I guys so calm down) Now--I agree with you both--from an accoutrement perspective---there are some things that one can start out with some common sense---but thats what I call "technique"--I'm damn good with strap and flogger---but its the impact of that on the other person---when it connects with the flesh at the other end---how does it make the other person feel---do they react the way I need--the way THEY need---the way WE need ad that's where I agree with what CERCKL says below: quote: If I am going to guide someone's personal development; I need to have some understanding of them, as well as some basic understanding of the mind, perception, ability to learn, techniques to guide...as well as the subject itself. If I am to be trusted, not only do I need to show that I am trustworthy, but I need to continuously learn, grow, develop myself before I can accept control from another...as well as I need to take responsibility of where I lack in knowledge, seek information, continue... This is a life for Me, not a scene, then everyone gets up and goes home---this is a person who has needs, wants and desires--who wants something from Me as much as I do from him and I want to know whats in the head, the heart, the soul---where does he want to fly,where do I want to send him, where do I want to go and how do I make those things meld- on all levels and its an ongoing process of evolution--as I told one of My students---"an evolution of revelation" IMNSHO.

CrappyDom -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 11:12:29 AM)
LA, I only used the example of vanilla sex because it was something everyone could relate to without grandstanding, of course it applies to BDSM, and in fact to anything people are involved in.

eruditegirl1 -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 11:35:12 AM)
When I first began learning about BDSM…one of the articles I read (yes…I read)was so intriguing to me….she wrote about complete trust…the thought of being able to place my trust and in some cases….my life…into another’s hands…was intriguing and yet forbidding to me….it’s only with more exploring and researching…that I can now understand how important the aspect of knowledge is in this lifestyle…for both the Dom and sub…as a novice sub…who is learning the characteristics and the dynamics….I would be grateful for and bestow my full trust with someone whose knowledge made me feel secure enough to surrender… after all…I can’t really see me taking driving lessons from a blind man….

mnottertail -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 12:01:03 PM)
your analogy is rather unfortunate, I understand that Stevie Wonder is a very careful driver, as was Ray Charles. But your parents were trained by who? They got you raised. I am not wholeheartedly disagreeing with you. I take a centrist approach to eliteisms.

Padriag -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 12:05:50 PM)
Keep in mind that a lot of people come to this lifestyle just seeking some kinky fun. There's a reason so many personal ads seem to just be about kinky sex... I'd say there's a majority out there for whom that's what this lifestyle is about. That majority is not all that serious about being the best dominant or submissive they can be, nor are they overly concerned with all the nuances of this style of life. They just want to have fun and don't want to have to read the manual first. (Kind of like most people I know with a new computer or video game, they just want to jump right into the fun.) Another problem area is ego, particularly for dominants. I've come across many a dominant who refused advice or to seek instruction in various techniques because they were simply too proud to admit they needed it. Dominants sometimes feel under a lot of pressure to appear "totally incontrol" which they take to mean they need to seem like they know everything, don't need any help from anyone, never need advice. Dominants like that I generally advise submissives to avoid, they're usually new and still figuring out you don't have to be a cocky know it all to feel secure about yourself and asking for help or seeking instruction doesn't make you "weak". But I've also seen it in some submissives. Particularly those who think they're already the world's greatest lover and don't need to be taught a think about being pleasing during sex or giving a BJ. The notion that they need to be taught some things about self care, organization, self discipline, awareness or adaptability is something they refuse to accept. And those are submissives I will always avoid wasting my time on. Just my 2 bits on the subject

MHOO314 -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 12:22:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail your analogy is rather unfortunate, I understand that Stevie Wonder is a very careful driver, as was Ray Charles. Oh THAT is priceless!

CrappyDom -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 12:23:22 PM)
Isn't it a shame all those other people are just ignorant players seeking kinky sex. If only they could all be more like us.

CERCKL -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 1:27:15 PM)
quote: Most aren't as saintly as you are, any submissive would be lucky to find someone as insightful as you are. That said, look at how few vanilla men or women have any real clue about their own sexuality, let alone their partners. How many people do any real self exploration, and not knowing themselves, how can they really start to know anyone else? So, not knowing what you don't know, you then can't realize there is more to others. It's a sad truth, but a truth none the less. Hey, I purchased my Sainthood on www.saints-r-us.com just like anyone else can...but stepping past your sarcasm (and well done I must say, sincerely) I think a lot of people are unaware...I know in the marriage I had, alot of the roots of our problems lay in lack of honest communication and being able to build a foundation of trust over the years; we had fallen into patterns of behavior which did not work and then there was my surprise she found another? I chose to look elsewhere and pretend the situation did not exist. That is me at my weakest...to deny what exists...I personally feel that I cannot know what I want to but bringing it back to the specific, I can learn enough to navigate where I want to be; even if it's just being aware of my own shortcomings and faults as well as my personal strengths. For me, self-examination, attempts at self-knowledge, an obsessive need to learn developed in my late teens; part of what both drew people to me as well as repelled them then was this constant hunger to understand; it devoured my sense of self as well as threatened those around me. I still have these tendencies somewhat, though they seem to be more intuitive (yes, I said it, so stop laughing, you know who you are...)than conscious in allowing others to explore themselves and I have discovered quite disruptively that some who seek self-knowledge, in reality do not... quote: Isn't it a shame all those other people are just ignorant players seeking kinky sex. If only they could all be more like us. Laughter at this...I feel sorry they have to seek though... C

CERCKL -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 1:29:00 PM)
quote: CERCKL, I love your posts these days, so very thought provoking Appreciated...I enjoy the thought shown behind your posts...ahhhhh, to be 'deranged' too... C

DaimonDog -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 1:41:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag Another problem area is ego, particularly for dominants. Dominants sometimes feel under a lot of pressure to appear "totally incontrol" which they take to mean they need to seem like they know everything, + (slaves) need to be taught some things about self care, organization, self discipline, awareness or adaptability is something they refuse to accept. Just my 2 bits on the subject A fine two bits, it is!

thegreymistress -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 1:53:18 PM)
I know I am in the "wrong" thread....curiosity got the best of me and I like invading taboo places...smiles deviously So anyways MHO is that some people do learn by gathering basic knowledge.Some don't. I learn by waching..smiles impishly I also learn by listening ...depends on what it is what your background is and how good a job you want to do. Some things can't be taught...they can be shown, they can be facilitated...no matter what kind of things are done to "teach" you cannot force one to learn and be proficient just because one said they wanted to learn.....(did I ramble or keep it on base? lol)

mnottertail -> RE: Knowledge (5/10/2006 1:57:45 PM)
perfect Grey, a prime example is the color green, it cannot be taught, I can give you a couple examples and hope you catch on is all. But the only way to learn math problems is to practice, practice, practice. Two different slants on the same thing, pattern recognition. This does not countermand anything that CERCKL has said. It is ancillary ramble. Sincerely, Ron

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