RE: Where have all the miracles gone ?

RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

thishereboi -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (4/30/2011 7:44:26 PM)
quote: Here's a few instances: Every day at school from the date I ceased believing (about age 10) I was forced to pretend to believe in Catholicism. Had I stated my beliefs I would have been expelled. At many faith based schools, the same holds true today. Talk to your parents, they are the ones who made you go there. At the William Booth Institute (a rehab facility) in Sydney, run by the Salvation Army, compulsory attendance at religious services/prayer meetings is enforced rigourously. The penalty for non-attendance is exclusion from the facility. I'm told this practice is not uncommon among faith-run rehabilitation services here and internationally. The underlying principle here - there can be no recovery from addiction (a health issue) without spiritual belief - is an obscene delusion. If a religious organization is running a rehab center, then they have the right to determine the rules. If you have a problem with that, you are free to choose a rehab center run by atheists. This compulsion to believe is even worse when the vulnerability of children/recovering addicts is taken into account. It is abusive in every sense of the word. ??? Historically there are innumerable instances of "convert or die", the forcible conversion of Jews and Moors in Spain following the Christian re-conquest being one well known example. Yes, lots of bad shit happened in the past. But we are discussing the present. Whilst it is not a universal phenomenon, the tendency for many people of many faiths to force their views on non-believers is real and incontrovertible. And the tendency for many people of no faith to ridicule believers is real in incontrovertible. What's your point?

tazzygirl -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (4/30/2011 8:14:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have yet to see anyone demand any atheist to believe in god... in the supernatural... in spirituality... in anything. Here's a few instances: Every day at school from the date I ceased believing (about age 10) I was forced to pretend to believe in Catholicism. Had I stated my beliefs I would have been expelled. At many faith based schools, the same holds true today. At the William Booth Institute (a rehab facility) in Sydney, run by the Salvation Army, compulsory attendance at religious services/prayer meetings is enforced rigourously. The penalty for non-attendance is exclusion from the facility. I'm told this practice is not uncommon among faith-run rehabilitation services here and internationally. The underlying principle here - there can be no recovery from addiction (a health issue) without spiritual belief - is an obscene delusion. This compulsion to believe is even worse when the vulnerability of children/recovering addicts is taken into account. It is abusive in every sense of the word. Historically there are innumerable instances of "convert or die", the forcible conversion of Jews and Moors in Spain following the Christian re-conquest being one well known example. Whilst it is not a universal phenomenon, the tendency for many people of many faiths to force their views on non-believers is real and incontrovertible. The only thing I can add to boi's response to you is.... I was referring to posts on the forum, and if I didnt make that clear, then my appology. However, since we are making this about personal experiences, I also have one to share. I worked with a lady who was devout in her faith, while the rest of my co-workers were young and were not into any faith. She only "preached" when bad words were spoken. But, repeatedly, day after day, she left those little booklets laying around. Im sure most have seen them, the ones proclaiming youare going to hell. The kids were complaining one day that the booklets were all over the break table... just annoying. But they wouldnt do anything. So I started throwing them away, day after day. I didnt make an issue of it, just tossed them into the trash when I saw them lying around. She eventually realized what I was doing and tried confronting me, saying I was going to hell if I didnt change my ways. I merely smiled and told her I probably was, in her eyes, but that didnt change the fact that she was breaking the law by leaving that literature lying around, that no one wanted to see them, everyone was complaining, and would she mind keeping her religious views to herself since the rest of the staff did. She blew a cork, and I merely walked away. She called the employee hotline to complain about my actions, at which time she was informed that she was breaking the law by leaving unsolicited material lying around that was not work related or approved. Thats when she quit saying she could not work for a "godless employer". At the same job, we had another woman who worked nights who was very racist and made no bones about it. Sure I could have stayed out of it... but nope.. not me. It was holloween and we were busy (restaurant) and she was complaining about "spics" and "n******" and I had had enough, I and two other employees had been complaining to management, who did nothing, so we complained to corporate, who had her suspended the next morning pending an investigation. That led to termination and a formal appology to those of us who complained from the management team and corporate office for the lack of "action" from the management team. If we are basing our actions on off line interactions, I have more than proved my propensity for defending both the religious and the non. But, as I have asked, I have yet to see a post on here where anyone was trying to convert atheists into a religious belief. But I could be mistaken and simply missed an opportunity.

Kirata -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (4/30/2011 9:19:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Now as humanity has progressed to the point where one person or a small group of like minded persons can initiate the destruction of all life on earth, why is God not making his presence felt more forcibly, for surely destruction of all life on earth is his concern... Well yanno, sooner or later your kids progress to the point where you gotta step back and let'em make their own mistakes. And while you don't want to see them fail, of course, if we do totally fuck up he can always make another Earth and let us try again until we learn. Feel better now? [:D] K.

mcbride -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 2:36:24 AM)
Aneirin, exactly how would you know if miracles were happening?

eihwaz -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 6:09:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin [...] is it true God gave the planet to the humans to do with as they wish ?[...] According to the same source you're using regarding miracles: quote: ORIGINAL: Genesis 1:26-30 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

tweakabelle -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 6:49:24 AM)
quote: quote: tweakabelle This compulsion to believe is even worse when the vulnerability of children/recovering addicts is taken into account. It is abusive in every sense of the word. quote: thishereboi ??? I'm taking your question marks to mean you can't understand why I regard forcing religion on children and recovering addicts as abusive. Here's one reason: 'madrassas' are run by fundamentalist Islamists in many countries. They basically teach the children under their care the Koran/Islam and not much else. Madrassas are widely blamed for turning children into suicide bombers, especially in Pakistan. They have been described as suicide bomber factories. As you apparently don't have a problem with forcing religion upon children whose minds are not formed enough to resist it, or on recovering addicts who are in no position either emotionally or physically to form views in such matters, I'm sure you won't have a problem with this particular practice. quote: quote: tweakabelle Whilst it is not a universal phenomenon, the tendency for many people of many faiths to force their views on non-believers is real and incontrovertible. quote: thishereboi And the tendency for many people of no faith to ridicule believers is real in incontrovertible. What's your point? You're surely not seriously suggesting that there's an equivalence between forcing a religion on someone and ridiculing a religious belief are you? Hopefully you aren't that stupid, so what's your point?

tazzygirl -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 7:42:58 AM)
quote: You're surely not seriously suggesting that there's an equivalence between forcing a religion on someone and ridiculing a religious belief are you? Hopefully you aren't that stupid, so what's your point? No one "forcing" a religion upon you. They are "forcing their religious belief"... and how is that different than "forcing an atheistic belief"?

thishereboi -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 11:08:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: quote: tweakabelle This compulsion to believe is even worse when the vulnerability of children/recovering addicts is taken into account. It is abusive in every sense of the word. quote: thishereboi ??? I'm taking your question marks to mean you can't understand why I regard forcing religion on children and recovering addicts as abusive. No they meant that I didn't understand which children and addicts you were refering to. Now I went to church as a child and so did all of my friends, I never say any of it as abusive. I have also had dealings with many sides of substance abuse and have never seen the abuse you talk about. Here's one reason: 'madrassas' are run by fundamentalist Islamists in many countries. They basically teach the children under their care the Koran/Islam and not much else. Madrassas are widely blamed for turning children into suicide bombers, especially in Pakistan. They have been described as suicide bomber factories. I haven't studied islamic religion and can't say what they teach their kids in other countries. I can say it's really none of my business. As you apparently don't have a problem with forcing religion upon children whose minds are not formed enough to resist it, or on recovering addicts who are in no position either emotionally or physically to form views in such matters, I'm sure you won't have a problem with this particular practice. I am against anyone who teaches a child to hate for any reason. Clear enough for ya? quote: quote: tweakabelle Whilst it is not a universal phenomenon, the tendency for many people of many faiths to force their views on non-believers is real and incontrovertible. quote: thishereboi And the tendency for many people of no faith to ridicule believers is real in incontrovertible. What's your point? You're surely not seriously suggesting that there's an equivalence between forcing a religion on someone and ridiculing a religious belief are you? Hopefully you aren't that stupid, so what's your point? Tazzy covered this already

Edwynn -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 11:31:58 AM)
In public school I never had an atheistic 'belief' forced upon me. In public places I've never had ostentatious atheistic-specific attire presented to me, unless we consider all non-ostentatious religious attire to be ostentatiously atheistic attire. Other than on a few internet forums, I've never had atheistic 'belief' as attempted by others to be even brought to my attention at all, much less forced upon me. Another thing some might want to attend to is to understand the prefix 'a' (or 'an' in front of vowels) which indicates something like 'non' (as contrasted to 'anti' or 'contra') which in the case of a-theism means effectively 'non-belief.' Yes, we can invoke a philosophical construct to call a non-belief a belief, but then strictly speaking, math is a belief system also. In any case the diversion is not helpful. Really, people.

tazzygirl -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 12:12:40 PM)
quote: Another thing some might want to attend to is to understand the prefix 'a' (or 'an' in front of vowels) which indicates something like 'non' (as contrasted to 'anti' or 'contra') which in the case of a-theism means effectively 'non-belief . Which is why its in quotations. No one "forcing" a religion upon you. They are "forcing their religious belief"... and how is that different than "forcing an atheistic belief"? And I have repeatedly said that an atheist belief is not to be confused with belief of a religious kind. Im simply tired of typing that out every time. If it bothers you that much, thats your problem. quote: Yes, we can invoke a philosophical construct to call a non-belief a belief, but then strictly speaking, math is a belief system also. In any case the diversion is not helpful. I repeatedly have made the same distinction. Funny how you have missed that. quote: In public school I never had an atheistic 'belief' forced upon me. Neither have I had a religious belief forced upon my in any school, except my few years at catholic school.... fancy that. quote: In public places I've never had ostentatious atheistic-specific attire presented to me, unless we consider all non-ostentatious religious attire to be ostentatiously atheistic attire . Never seen this? http://www.atheists-online.com/zoom.asp?shop=00600#1

tazzygirl -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 12:14:52 PM)
The picture wont upload, but its an atheistic tshirt I have seen quite a few people wearing. Not saying it isnt funny... but then again I think a nun's habit is funny too.. and sorta erotic.

Edwynn -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 12:35:45 PM)
Sorry if I accused falsely, I should have used 'FR.' It was the idea of 'atheistic belief' in general that I was addressing, your post just happened to be the most recent as bringing to mind. I might have seen a t-shirt similar to something like in that catalog once, not sure. In any case I think they're worn as just another social comment, not necessarily as active promotion. OTOH the promotion of it might be the actual intent with a few, some people are actually that silly. I feel for others that were apparently traumatized by religious input into their young lives. I can hardly remember any of what I was told in that regard. There were so many other bizarre things that adults said that the religious stuff hardly distinguished itself for me. Even as I later gradually fell away from the church the ongoing discovery of all the 'secular' lies promulgated in the world proceeded apace.

tweakabelle -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 5:25:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: quote: tweakabelle This compulsion to believe is even worse when the vulnerability of children/recovering addicts is taken into account. It is abusive in every sense of the word. quote: thishereboi ??? I'm taking your question marks to mean you can't understand why I regard forcing religion on children and recovering addicts as abusive. No they meant that I didn't understand which children and addicts you were refering to. Now I went to church as a child and so did all of my friends, I never say any of it as abusive. I have also had dealings with many sides of substance abuse and have never seen the abuse you talk about. Let me make myself crystal clear. It is abusive to force a belief such as religion on a child or recovering addict, or indeed, any one who is not in a position to make fully informed free choices of their own. If you cannot grasp this basic point about personal integrity and autonomy, try replacing "a belief such as religion" with "sex" in the previous sentence. Yes, it can be seen as a kind of mind rape. Your inability to identify it as abusive, and your casual acceptance of such practices suggests to me that whatever moral code you subscribe to is seriously deficient. Here's one reason: 'madrassas' are run by fundamentalist Islamists in many countries. They basically teach the children under their care the Koran/Islam and not much else. Madrassas are widely blamed for turning children into suicide bombers, especially in Pakistan. They have been described as suicide bomber factories. I haven't studied islamic religion and can't say what they teach their kids in other countries. I can say it's really none of my business. Transparent evasion. Have you no better response than this pathetic effort? As you apparently don't have a problem with forcing religion upon children whose minds are not formed enough to resist it, or on recovering addicts who are in no position either emotionally or physically to form views in such matters, I'm sure you won't have a problem with this particular practice. I am against anyone who teaches a child to hate for any reason. Clear enough for ya? Again. Transparent evasion. Have you no better response than this pathetic effort? quote: quote: tweakabelle Whilst it is not a universal phenomenon, the tendency for many people of many faiths to force their views on non-believers is real and incontrovertible. quote: thishereboi And the tendency for many people of no faith to ridicule believers is real in incontrovertible. What's your point? You're surely not seriously suggesting that there's an equivalence between forcing a religion on someone and ridiculing a religious belief are you? Hopefully you aren't that stupid, so what's your point? Tazzy covered this already Tazzy responded with an evasion and an attempt to twist the subject. If she ever addresses the point directly, I might pay attention to what she has to say. The question was pointedly directed to you. Of course you don't have to respond, but a series of silences and evasions adds up to an awful lot of nothing. In this instance, silence would be apt and eloquent - revealing you have nothing to say, nothing intelligent to contribute and adding weight to the criticisms made at the outset.

thishereboi -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 8:18:29 PM)
And where are they forcing a belief down the throats of recovering addicts? You were never clear on that one.

tazzygirl -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 9:04:47 PM)
quote: Tazzy responded with an evasion and an attempt to twist the subject. If she ever addresses the point directly, I might pay attention to what she has to say. Ah so you didnt like my answer. I figured you wouldnt. [:D] Doesnt change my answer, though. Something you have yet to address. Seems you have a way of your own evasion. Suits me just fine. [;)]

stef -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 9:46:12 PM)
Where have all the miracles gone? Don't know, but one of them turned up in Abbottabad, Pakistan yesterday. ~stef

tazzygirl -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 9:50:28 PM)
Very, very true, stef.

Lucylastic -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/1/2011 11:11:38 PM)
Dammiy I was hoping to be the first,rats, lol well done ladies not really a miracle but thanks to SEALS:)

DomYngBlk -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/2/2011 5:06:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Another thread to slam religion. [8\|] For someone who has repeatedly claimed to be spiritual and not religious you sure seem to get awfully upset when anyone questions anything religious. I am not black, but I get really angry when I see racists slamming them. Does this mean I should stop and just ignore them? It's not an appropriate comparison. Being black is not a choice. Choosing to follow a religion is. I would hope that your open minded enough to see that for many people it isn't a choice. That to be "religious" is the only way that they can assure salvation.

rulemylife -> RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? (5/2/2011 5:39:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk I would hope that your open minded enough to see that for many people it isn't a choice. That to be "religious" is the only way that they can assure salvation. No, unfortunately I'm not. I don't classify being open-minded on the same level as being open to believing mythology.

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875