quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

MusicMystery,

To quote you "Only then will [the people] be able to pull themselves up", that seems an off comment. Do you not believe that the people (govt.) who we pay taxes to have a responsibility to the American taxpayers, to conduct themselves with stewardship with our money, so that we taxpayers won't have to "pull ourselves up"? Surely you don't think the American taxpayers are on their own, alone for their futures? Where's the patriotism, and the sense of country in that? Isn't it that same patriotism and sense of country that demands we send our men overseas to fight wars which the United Nations has declared to be illegal? Don't forget now, George W. Bush said "You're either with us, or with the terrorists", which I guess means that the United Nations sided with the terrorists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

house,

Times have changed since Reagan's experiment. We now have a two-tiered economy. The upper one is prospering. The lower one is currently stagnant. That's not going to change until credit finally thaws and banks/businesses stop just sitting on cash.

People are going to have to educate themselves--seriously educate themselves--about how the economy works. Only then will they be able to pull themselves up. The old model of getting a good job and being set is gone.

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ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy

No, the government has a responsibility to keep its fucking hands off the money we the people make, except for what is authorized by the Constitution without asinine expansin of the "Commerce Clause".

quote:

ORIGINAL: gothikbutterfly

The trickle down theory trickled down a long time ago

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ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome
To quote you "Only then will [the people] be able to pull themselves up", that seems an off comment. Do you not believe that the people (govt.) who we pay taxes to have a responsibility to the American taxpayers, to conduct themselves with stewardship with our money, so that we taxpayers won't have to "pull ourselves up"? Surely you don't think the American taxpayers are on their own, alone for their futures? Where's the patriotism, and the sense of country in that? Isn't it that same patriotism and sense of country that demands we send our men overseas to fight wars which the United Nations has declared to be illegal? Don't forget now, George W. Bush said "You're either with us, or with the terrorists", which I guess means that the United Nations sided with the terrorists.

No, the government has a responsibility to keep its fucking hands off the money we the people make, except for what is authorized by the Constitution without asinine expansin of the "Commerce Clause".

quote:

ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy

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ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Gee....it seems for the last 2 years one of the sounds bites used often by the GOP and Faux News is how BAD Obama and his plan is for business in this country.   Remember how the auto loan by the government would end the free market system as we know it????? 

Yet...according to Forbes..the top 500 companies had profits increase by 81% last year  all the while the workers had their wages stalled....


All told, the Fortune 500 generated nearly $10.8 trillion in total revenues last year, up 10.5%. Total profits soared 81%. But guess who didn’t benefit much from this giant wave of cash? Millions of U.S. workers stuck mired in a stagnant job market. [...] Nevertheless, we’ve rarely seen such a stark gulf between the fortunes of the 500 and those of ordinary Americans.

If you had a clue about economics you would know that the current tax and regulatory environment is as effective a dam against domestic economic growth as there can be. Watch where those profits get invested...because they always have been and always will...just not here without major changes.

That's good to know Willbeur.

Now can you explain how those profits occurred in what we have been repeatedly told, by you and others, is an anti-business administration?

You might want to look at the source of the profits. Hint: it wasnt increased revenues.

Then what was it economic guru?

cost cutting, shifting of revenue recognition due to expectations that capital gains tax rates would increase at the end of 2010 and the expiration of a large portion of depreciation writeoffs.

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ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy
cost cutting, shifting of revenue recognition due to expectations that capital gains tax rates would increase at the end of 2010 and the expiration of a large portion of depreciation writeoffs.

You crack me up Willbeurr.

Are you seriously going to to try to make an argument that cost cutting resulted in those huge profits?

But let's move on to who expected the capital gains tax rate to increase?  There was certainly no indication that this was even being considered.

Cost cutting was a significant part of them, yes.

No indication that capital gains tax rates would increase? (and dividend rates as well?)

Is it tax laws or your memory of exactly when the vote to continue the Bush tax cuts was passed that fails you?

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Further, domestic manufacturing is (and has been) growing, primarily to replace depleted inventories. It hasn't generated jobs because productivity has soared (which will benefit us long term).

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ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

The Trickledown Theory went the way of many other political slogans, like "No New Taxes", "A Kinder, Gentler Nation", "Compassionate Conservativism", "Change", "No Child Left Behind", "Freedom", "Liberty", "Pursuit Of Happiness", "A Chicken In Every Pot", "A Great Nation", the idea of a "Constitution", "Democracy", a "Free Market", "Patriotism", and the list goes on. The Pentagon simply refers to all this verbage as PsyOps. Look it up.

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ORIGINAL: joether

So basically, your 'for' corporations turning Americans into slaves by removing regulations, laws, and hidden from inspectors. In addition, your 'for' many if not all the unethical practices that would later be made 'unlawful' being used on Americans? Because its noted that as technology and concepts grew more complex over the last thirty years, so to, did the average America's understanding.

increased regulations is not the answer however.  completely independent judicial with strictly "jury" courts and and what was called a court master, and get rid of these fucking priests in black robes on their commercial thrones.

Then straighten out that mess on corporate citizen, by repealing that part of the 14th since it adds nothing to due process that is not already there in the first 10.  Reconvene a lawful congress under th e1791 charter and amend accordingly, and get rid of the commerce clause altogether and promulgate the fact that they are nothing more than a corporation doing business, then indemnify all americans with clear unambiguous distinction between the living and the decedent fiction corporate person.

Go read up on the 'Company Towns' of the 19th American century. It will explain how things gave rise to the Unions. Corporations these days are considered 'American Persons' in that they can have as much ability (if not more) as a regular American in politics. How many middle class Americans do you know that run around with $3-30 million dollar expense accounts and have hired many lobbists?

The reason is to bring you the living man down to a level that you can be sued like a corporation.  You cannot have inalienable rights as a corporation since they are gifts from God and no man or gubmint can interfere with them.  BUT as soon as you are a coporate fiction you can be sued in commerce by any corporation and your real labor can be converted completely circumventing the 5th and the constitution.  so simple how that works it escapes even the most brilliant minds.

Goverment takes money from corporations, (technically corporations are a trust association with stock holders.)  because that is the manner to keep those companies in line and lawful. That helps keep the food we buy in stores fresh and without harm to our bodies. That anything manufactored must handle the ravages of the typical (and quite inquisitive) child. The goverment can't throw corporations in jail the same they could to you or me (since a corporation is an entity, not a person). But, a corporation is hurt by having to pay fines.

Therein lies the problem.  Your fiction or entity is brought into court and tried, not you.  They cannot try you the man in a commercial court!!!!

They can try YOU THE MAN in a commercial court in a reduced status of citizen!!!

starting to get the picture?  haha they fooled you all again!  robbed you of your sovereign status when you were not looking!

If many people demand that companies behave in a certain manner (lawful and ethical), isn't that 'We the People' in action? Isn't that what the Founding Fathers wanted? For the PEOPLE to decide how power is divided up in the country. But also, to protect the minority from being pummeled and raped by the majority. Well, hate to break it to you DNCD, but The People, have demanded in the past that companies behave in a lawful and ethical manner. They demand it even more now, and will keep demanding in the future. However, there are individuals (like yourself) that would rather corporations turn us all in to slaves. The perfect 'conservative nanny state' (bet you've never heard of that concept?).

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Further, domestic manufacturing is (and has been) growing, primarily to replace depleted inventories. It hasn't generated jobs because productivity has soared (which will benefit us long term).

Productivity has been increasing for years and it has not benefited those who produce.

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Gee....it seems for the last 2 years one of the sounds bites used often by the GOP and Faux News is how BAD Obama and his plan is for business in this country.   Remember how the auto loan by the government would end the free market system as we know it????? 

Yet...according to Forbes..the top 500 companies had profits increase by 81% last year  all the while the workers had their wages stalled....


All told, the Fortune 500 generated nearly $10.8 trillion in total revenues last year, up 10.5%. Total profits soared 81%. But guess who didn’t benefit much from this giant wave of cash? Millions of U.S. workers stuck mired in a stagnant job market. [...] Nevertheless, we’ve rarely seen such a stark gulf between the fortunes of the 500 and those of ordinary Americans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

house,

Times have changed since Reagan's experiment. We now have a two-tiered economy. The upper one is prospering. The lower one is currently stagnant. That's not going to change until credit finally thaws and banks/businesses stop just sitting on cash.

People are going to have to educate themselves--seriously educate themselves--about how the economy works. Only then will they be able to pull themselves up. The old model of getting a good job and being set is gone.

ok but what you said would have been news 50 - 70 years ago!

How about fixing it from the TOP down  :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
IN the 50s/60s, we were benefiting from a huge market windfall--Europe's means of production were reduced from the war, and we picked up the slack. That's all good. However, instead of treating it like the windfall it was (we made the same mistake in the 1910s and 20s), setting it aside as savings, we decided it was our birthright, acting like it was a never-ending stream of abundance, doing nothing to replace it as Europe recovered, and went into the 70s screaming about whose fault it was.

We are a short-sighted people. Meanwhile, European and Japanese manufacturers were designing and building the cars we would need for the future...

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ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

MusicMystery,

To quote you "Only then will [the people] be able to pull themselves up", that seems an off comment. Do you not believe that the people (govt.) who we pay taxes to have a responsibility to the American taxpayers, to conduct themselves with stewardship with our money, so that we taxpayers won't have to "pull ourselves up"? Surely you don't think the American taxpayers are on their own, alone for their futures? Where's the patriotism, and the sense of country in that? Isn't it that same patriotism and sense of country that demands we send our men overseas to fight wars which the United Nations has declared to be illegal? Don't forget now, George W. Bush said "You're either with us, or with the terrorists", which I guess means that the United Nations sided with the terrorists.

No, the government has a responsibility to keep its fucking hands off the money we the people make, except for what is authorized by the Constitution without asinine expansin of the "Commerce Clause".

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

"Trickle down" has been replaced by the "Flood Up" effect. Not just in the US but in other Western countries too. Australia follows a pretty similar economic course to the US and we have a Flood Up happening here too.

What's the "Flood Up" effect? Pretty simple. Massive flows of wealth to the already rich from the middle and lower classes. Broken unions, deregulation, free trade and free flows of capital etc have all had the same predictable effect of greatly increasing the wealth and assets of the rich. It's been the story of the past few decades here and in the US too I'm advised.

It's really time that trickle down got trickled off and flood up got f**ked off permanently. Your purse/wallet is a far more reliable guide to the economy than any economist will ever be. This is the golden rule of tweakenomics!


Edited to add: Nice to see you again UWillbePoorAsLongAsUListen2me .....ooops! I mean NewOCDaddy