RE: Why people hate America

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rulemylife -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 7:05:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Don't you realise, haven't you read ? The whole world does not hate the USA. The masses of the world in the most part see it as imperfect, often an oppressor, often a humanitarian country, often wrong, often right. The hatred of America does not match the hatred of the United Kingdom 100 years ago. We did some seriously inhumane and undefendable things back then. We're constantly apologizing about it. The USA has done terrible things too. The key is in apologizing. Although the government seems far from making any concessions, showing any humility or even the faintest sign of modesty, the world understands that the American people are hurt, and the world is sympathetic and caring. People in most nations know that American people are no less human than anyone else, trying their best. Governments and massive organisations, however, are frequently the last to realize when such Human emotions need to be brought to the forefront. The USA has a child as a government, a young country which is only recently learning that actions last forever, something that plagues older nation's embarrassed leaders. The dislike of America is not as great as people's dislike for terrorism, its atrocities and oppression not as bad as Imperial England. - (http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.html) I am about understanding now, not hate, for I have done too much hate in the past, it is counterproductive and at worst a disease of the mind. It's always amusing to me when someone talks out of both sides of their mouth at the same time. Sorry, but you can't denounce and pretend to be conciliatory in the same breath.

Real0ne -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 7:09:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Aneirin…you dog…you just love poking a stick in the bee hive don’t you...admit it. Butch Funny, someone else said that recently, but then as you might be aware if anything is contentious, then i believe it needs to aired or else it will just fester under the surface and poison the future. anything that gets to core matters imo is good stuff man! people need to study what was not taught and for the most part still is not taught in the schools. all they get is "winners history" which is invariably propaganda side of issues. Fortunately google has taken many books and complete law libraries and scanned them in. Harvard, yale and princeton are treasure troves to say the least.

rulemylife -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 7:17:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark The height of our arrogance....We don't care who hates us!....It's good to be American! Or maybe the height of arrogance rests in the people who find themselves qualified to judge us.

rulemylife -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 7:22:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne anything that gets to core matters imo is good stuff man! people need to study what was not taught and for the most part still is not taught in the schools. all they get is "winners history" which is invariably propaganda side of issues. Fortunately google has taken many books and complete law libraries and scanned them in. Harvard, yale and princeton are treasure troves to say the least. I keep forgetting. Which one one those law schools did you graduate from? Was it Harvard or Yale?

rulemylife -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 7:29:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealOne idiots are so stoopid the media could get them to shoot their own mothers and justify it in the name of leftee rightee american patriotism. Most idiots know how to spell stupid.

xssve -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 7:30:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Aneirin…you dog…you just love poking a stick in the bee hive don’t you...admit it. Butch Funny, someone else said that recently, but then as you might be aware if anything is contentious, then i believe it needs to aired or else it will just fester under the surface and poison the future. anything that gets to core matters imo is good stuff man! people need to study what was not taught and for the most part still is not taught in the schools. all they get is "winners history" which is invariably propaganda side of issues. Fortunately google has taken many books and complete law libraries and scanned them in. Harvard, yale and princeton are treasure troves to say the least. It is true, he's taking the indirect approach here to some extent to argue a point about foreign policy, but I'm not certain how effective this approach is, when it really isn't that complicated - as this poster noted: quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan Why oh why do some of you care whether the USA is loved or not? Look, everybody and their freaking uncle still want to come here. When people here start bailing on America, which could happen if this ding dong gets four more years, then really worry. Where else can we go? MARS? I feel safe in guessing that the poster is a conservative and supports conservative policy which are many of the very policies that elicit criticism, and create condition in those foreign countries that make people want to get out of them, and people here, want to get out of here. What makes people want to come here are two things: constitutional guarantees and economic opportunity - if they had these things in their country, I'm guessing most of them would stay put - i.e., Mexicans for example - why go through all the trouble of smuggling yourself across the border, at considerable expense and risk, to take a shit job, far from your home and family, among people who hate, abuse and take unfair advantage of you? The answer is simply, it must still be a better option than whatever opportunities they have at home. Conservative foreign policy hasn't changed that much since Yalta: prop up any local dictator that will play ball and allow the multinationals to take whatever they want, minus kickbacks to the local oligarchy/military junta, etc., the puppet regimes the CIA has set up, and US policy has been propping up, all over the globe, for the last half century. Naturally, this leads to a lot of misery and bad feelings - we aren't promoting democracy on a global scale, we're obstructing it wherever it rears it's ugly head, because it creates headaches for corporate multinationals who ant to strip these countries of their primitive capital and maximize their profit margins. Neo-liberals, the Wold Bank, etc., are just as bad, they undermine developing economies in the guise of promoting them, and the end result is the same, a small, affluent (heavily bribed) demographic at the top, general misery below, feudalism basically, see Argentina. Thus, the love hate/thing, they haven't been able to pull it off here, yet, and globally, NGO's and the like have been getting excellent results with things like microloans.

xssve -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 7:43:03 AM)
I believe the big underlying fallacy here is that corporate economic interests are "America", i.e., "our way of life"- we are our cars, our phones, our affluent lifestyle, our stuff. It's a long way from "pioneering spirit", and "sense of justice and fair play" or anything liek that that might actually be deemed remotely admirable - nope, it's just our shit.

tweakabelle -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 7:55:46 AM)
When I first saw the OP, my reaction was; 'Which America is he talking about?'. Because there's probably as many Americas as you can count. Is it corporate America ? Or New York America ? Or Deep South America ? Or Mid West America? Or small town America? Neo-Con America? Tea bagger's America? Liberal America? West Coast America? American trade policy? US foreign policy? and so on ... It's probably possible to react the same to any country. It's certainly valid to ask such questions about Australia, where I live. There are as many Australias as you can poke a stick at. So I'm not sure that this is a very productive approach.

CherryNeko -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 8:42:13 AM)
Aaaah, generalizations. Only those who say 'I hate country' are the reason for their country being hated abroad, by the same kind of people. The rest of us is fine! Meh-heh-heh.

SilverMark -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 9:41:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark The height of our arrogance....We don't care who hates us!....It's good to be American! Don't put words in my mouth. If that is the way YOU feel then YOU own it. Now everyone thinks like you do. Sorry, I shouldn't speak in generalizations!...Almost all of us don't care who hates us...boi DOES care!...I would always prefer not be disliked until I have proven I truly deserve to be disliked, which is some times pretty quick!...

Aneirin -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 11:01:23 AM)
Which is all well and good if you spend all your life in the US, but if you went abroad and came across people from other nations who had a history of being fucked over by the US, you might think different. I wonder though, since 2001, what is the status regarding Americans vacationing abroad, is it up or down, and of those vacations, where is not on the list to visit anymore which was in the past.

SilverMark -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 11:29:54 AM)
I have spent time in Great Britain, France, Spain and Italy....everyone was very polite, I never encountered anything but decent folks. I hold nothing against those from another country based on which country they come from, only based on how they treat me. I personally don't quite understand this idea that because I am an American, or someone else is from France or Germany I should immediately HATE them. It really doesn't hold water with me, you can dislike our politics, our leaders or our wealth, I will not extend the same to anyone unless I know them. I do a great deal of business with people from China, I dislike the fact that I have to due to the industry I am in, but I don't dislike the individuals, or even the country, just not fond of the circumstances.

NorthernGent -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 11:29:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Why people around the world hate America, A perspective Hate is a ridiculous world, really, and misses the point entirely. Just about everyone I know has no opinion on US politics; they don't really have an opinion on British politics. But they do watch some US films and listen to some US music, and I would say the feeling is a positive one. When it comes to politics, the people who take the time to look at US politics see a paradox and aren't convinced about 'the land of the free' idea. But, that's holding them to standards to which we all fall short. There is a blind spot when it comes to looking the mirror among some people, of course, but then there is among some of the English, too. In practical terms, most countries have had a crack at dominating the world. The difference being that England and the United States have not had tyrants running round the place: they've achieved this through stealth, cunning, diplomacy, financial ties, allies etc; and war has been well down the list of options. I'm not saying I'm one for realpolitik; I'm not. I would rather peace and prosperity triumphed. But, let's be honest, have they really done anything that other countries haven't done or tried? I would much prefer to discuss the merits of something like bypassing the rule of law in exceptional circumstances - regardless of which country has done so - than discuss the idea that the United States is one of a kind, because, quite frankly, you don't have much of an argument there. The thing about both England and the United States is that there are large swathes of dissenting voices when the government marches into places like Iraq - millions marched in London and Manchester, parents of soldiers attempted to sue the government - to me, that is a sign of a vibrant democracy that has more things right than wrong.

MrRodgers -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 12:57:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: I think people should actually READ it before commenting. One could also trouble oneself to verify the propositions given in the article, however much a stretch that may be for some. This one caught my eye right away: "- Its protectionist stance on trade issues such as steel and agriculture. " The steel issue is over and done with, long ago. And then there are (gasp!) the facts on agricultural subsidies: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,621469,00.html "Anyone who owns large tracts of land -- whether they are forests, meadows or fields -- can also receive huge sums from Brussels. Around €50 billion ($66 billion) are made available each year to subsidize nearly anything that fits into the category of "agriculture." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/business/worldbusiness/23iht-farm.4.12281515.html BERLIN — Despite soaring food prices, Germany's agriculture minister on Wednesday joined France in opposing cuts in the European Union's subsidies to farmers. Yeah! You tell'em Germany! Tell those Americans (and don't forget the Japanese while your at the hypocrisy) about all those bad ol'e farm subsidies! quote: ORIGINAL: Charnegui Over here we call it hypocrit. You don't say!? We call it that here too! (minor spelling difference aside). Good to know we have so much in common. Steel tariffs remain as far as I know mostly on Chinese steel for rather obvious reasons concerning Chinese tariffs and currency games. The 'hate' promoted by agricultural subsidies is felt by all small developing countries toward all subsidized western industrialized agricorps...not just America, so pointing out any one particular participant is fruitless. Particularly the subsidy in their export which at such low prices...prices out their agric. (African agric. loses an est. $300-500 million/yr. in sales because of this) Japan may not survive without their own rice being so small, yet they refuse the entry of ALL other country's rice. They will arrest you if you even manage to bring some in.

rulemylife -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 1:13:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Which is all well and good if you spend all your life in the US, but if you went abroad and came across people from other nations who had a history of being fucked over by the US, you might think different. Oh, that's so terrible! Come here and let me give you a big hug and make everything better.

Edwynn -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 1:16:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: I think people should actually READ it before commenting. One could also trouble oneself to verify the propositions given in the article, however much a stretch that may be for some. This one caught my eye right away: "- Its protectionist stance on trade issues such as steel and agriculture. " The steel issue is over and done with, long ago. And then there are (gasp!) the facts on agricultural subsidies: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,621469,00.html "Anyone who owns large tracts of land -- whether they are forests, meadows or fields -- can also receive huge sums from Brussels. Around €50 billion ($66 billion) are made available each year to subsidize nearly anything that fits into the category of "agriculture." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/business/worldbusiness/23iht-farm.4.12281515.html BERLIN — Despite soaring food prices, Germany's agriculture minister on Wednesday joined France in opposing cuts in the European Union's subsidies to farmers. Yeah! You tell'em Germany! Tell those Americans (and don't forget the Japanese while your at the hypocrisy) about all those bad ol'e farm subsidies! quote: ORIGINAL: Charnegui Over here we call it hypocrit. You don't say!? We call it that here too! (minor spelling difference aside). Good to know we have so much in common. Steel tariffs remain as far as I know mostly on Chinese steel for rather obvious reasons concerning Chinese tariffs and currency games. The 'hate' promoted by agricultural subsidies is felt by all small developing countries toward all subsidized western industrialized agricorps...not just America, so pointing out any one particular participant is fruitless. Particularly the subsidy in their export which at such low prices...prices out their agric. (African agric. loses an est. $300-500 million/yr. in sales because of this) Japan may not survive without their own rice being so small, yet they refuse the entry of ALL other country's rice. They will arrest you if you even manage to bring some in. So you are saying that you missed the point entirely.

crazyml -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 1:22:21 PM)
{FR} I can't be arsed to read the thread... but has anyone mentioned American cheese yet? Or the chocolate for that matter? Fuck me - You people can innovate the socks off the world, you created the most dynamic, inspirational, positive culture there is, but your cheese and chocolate are shit.

playfulotter -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 1:41:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml {FR} I can't be arsed to read the thread... but has anyone mentioned American cheese yet? Or the chocolate for that matter? Fuck me - You people can innovate the socks off the world, you created the most dynamic, inspirational, positive culture there is, but your cheese and chocolate are shit. I think you have only tasted the mass produced chocolate and cheese from over here. Probably all the small mom and pop type cheese producers and the small chocolate producers sell it all over here as there is only a limited quanity at this date...These are young industries over here but some are just as good as Europe if you seek them out..but of course the variety isn't here yet.

rulemylife -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 1:41:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml {FR} I can't be arsed to read the thread... but has anyone mentioned American cheese yet? Or the chocolate for that matter? Fuck me - You people can innovate the socks off the world, you created the most dynamic, inspirational, positive culture there is, but your cheese and chocolate are shit. Velveeta rocks!

LaTigresse -> RE: Why people hate America (5/6/2011 1:48:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml {FR} I can't be arsed to read the thread... but has anyone mentioned American cheese yet? Or the chocolate for that matter? Fuck me - You people can innovate the socks off the world, you created the most dynamic, inspirational, positive culture there is, but your cheese and chocolate are shit. You've got to put a little more effort into the search! Due to demand, my local grocers are now supplying some wonderful cheeses and chocolate. As for the OP.......I love this country. Yet, I do not feel it is superiour to others, just different. We are a very young country with an arrogance and exuberance that is often off putting. We have a long way to go.......just look at some of the citizens we have representing us on these forums. But as stupid and obnoxious as many of my fellow citizens are, I support the freedom we have to be stupid and obnoxious. They have to own their behaviour, not I. I will represent my country in the light I wish it to be seen. I have the freedom to do so........regardless of what the obnoxious and stupid would like.

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