RE: The perfect "tell"???

RE: The perfect "tell"??? (Full Version)

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DiamondDiva -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/11/2004 7:31:36 PM)
Is it really about how submissive one is or is it about how well the Dom and Sub fit together to accomplish the objective? I don't see hair pulling and nipple pinching as ways to test submissiveness I see that as a way of pissing someone off. The best way to be to measure the submissive nature of a person is to find out what there submissive nature is and take them out of their comfort zone and see how far you can go with it. 2 cents DD

ShadeDiva -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/11/2004 9:20:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topcat I don't think that was what he meant (I hope not). It's not a yank- not even a pull. It's more sort of a stroke- brushing back from behind the ear, almost cradlinng the base of the skull (carefully NOT pulling the short hairs at the back of the neck!) and just gently closing ones fist in her/his hair. It's quite nice actually. Yeah I used the wrong word - sorta on purpose. I was being a brat, lol. My hair is SO long and SO fine that there are bad hairs all over. Bad haoirs are ANY hairs that are pulling way more tightly than the main mass. If someone is not being 100% conscious of how their hand is going into that mass of hair (being really fine and bone straight it looks like I have a LOT less than what I do) or if it's knotted itself (which it can and does do, I can freaking get a HUGE rats nest in my hair while it's in a ponytail juust from it moving across my back for an hour or so) those mean ol BAD hairs can come out of nowhere. And boy do they! And well, ah, if we are doing any sort of resistance/rough play thats when the yanking part tends to come in, and the cussing starts - it's not MEANT to be nice usually. lol. Well ok - not the traditional sort of nice. LOL. Hmmm now that I think about it, the "bad hairs" pulls seem to coincide with sammie behavior that I prolly shouldn't do but ah the dominant side just seems to want to push for ... hmmmm ... drat. It's MY freaking fault. Great. Lovely. That soooooo bites! LOL! Yup. I need to find a long term victim to express the dominance side with for sure LOL! And yeah. If someone did that to me that I hadn't consented to nice or not and I'd prolly want to lay them out. ~ShadeDiva

BigBadVoodooDadd -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/11/2004 10:59:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: msjingles Ya know, seriously though, I took a look at your profile BVDD and to be honest it sounds just like those Dom's we are warned away from. To me at least shrug I really think that there are no needs for insults here. I mean if you can't really reply to the threat itself you really should not reply at all. It is rude and very much inconsiderate to attack someone that has not caused or done anything to provoke your insult. TOPCAT, Thank you for your input, it is definitely the kind of a response I was looking for. You were right about the hair pull thing, there is definitely an "art" to doing it right and that is one of the things I was reffering to. HAPPYPERVERT, It is a great mental masturbation and I think that the answers that the people were giving were great but they were going too much towards that "it is because you screwed up" line of reasoning. I do not mind people giving personal experiences or drawing from their own knowledge but because it is a hypothetical question it really has NOTHING to do with me and everything to do about the issue that I have asked. That is all and that is the reason I had to redefine the criteria. Anyway, thank you ALL for responding very much. I hope we can discuss some more interesting issues! Take care! BBVD

LadyMegaera -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/12/2004 12:19:41 AM)
There is no perfect "tell" IMO. Just as there is no perfect "tell" for a Dom. Anyone and everyone can read and learn what the common (most submissive or Domly) responses are and act their way through most all situations. Its a matter of getting to know someone because otherwise you truly won't have any idea. In addition, someone can be the textbook submissive to Dom A, but a total Domme ball breaker to Dom B. Its all a matter of perspective.

msjingles -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/12/2004 7:45:23 PM)
quote: I mean if you can't really reply to the threat itself you really should not reply at all. It is rude and very much inconsiderate to attack someone that has not caused or done anything to provoke your insult. You are right, and I'm sorry. While I don't feel I attacked you, it was inconsiderate of me to say what I did. Not an excuse, but I took some sleeping medicine and was feeling a bit loopy and just said what I was thinking. mutters to self: if ya can't say sumpthin nice, don't say nuthin at all [:)]

Sinergy -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/12/2004 8:35:30 PM)
quote: The best way to be to measure the submissive nature of a person is to find out what there submissive nature is and take them out of their comfort zone and see how far you can go with it. Howdy, In the style of dancing I do, I will get my partner into closed position and do a few of the basic steps with her. This tells me how in tune she is with my lead, and lets me know something about her abilities to follow my lead. If our movements meld, I will start doing more intricate things. If they dont, I will enjoy the dance but I will spend it doing simple things while I chase our connection. The same thing (to me) goes for submissives and I. If I can lead her, then I will work to do so. If I cant, I wont. For me, the decision is based entirely on the kineasthetics. Just me, could be wrong, but there ya go. Sinergy

MistressKiss -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/13/2004 4:30:17 AM)
Interesting thought to ponder, but my question is....CAN you tell how submissive someone is from the beginning? I think...no. The "level" of submission that a person expressed varies from dom to dom and from submissive to submissive, IMHO. Where I might be willing to do virtually anything with a dominant that I have a high level of trust with, I might be extremely cautious with another. Also, I think that all submissive relationships deepen as the couple knows each other and their own personal eccentricities better. This usually happens over a period of time and experience in scene and out of scene. The "hair pulling" test and the "nipple pinching" test hold absolutely no validity in my eyes. I am extremely submissive when I am operating in that mode, but if I have a migraine and a dominant attempts pulling my hair, he'd best back off quickly - and that has nothing to do with my level of submission. I don't think that submission can be judged by the acceptance of a dominant act - I hope that made sense. Submission is a thing in constant development and the deeper the emotional attachment and desire - as well as mutual respect - the deeper the "ability" to submit. Using gauges like the ones described are similar to judging a book by its cover. Just my tuppance, as someone else called it....grinsssssssssss [image]local://upfiles/10574/92496418890C4A4CADC78A6709CBD3BE.gif[/image]

FirmhandKY -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/13/2004 11:31:33 AM)
I've read this thread with quite a lot of interest. I'm kind of surprised that anyone who has been involved, even slightly, with Bdsm would consider any answer to this as other than ... it depends on the two people involved, and their level of trust. Dunno, maybe if you are into the "Gorean" stuff, this question might make sense to me ... but in real life? Not trying to belittle the quest for a simple "tell", just that I've never thought any human relationship could faithfully be determined so easily. .02

LadyAngelika -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/13/2004 12:19:10 PM)
quote: I'm kind of surprised that anyone who has been involved, even slightly, with Bdsm would consider any answer to this as other than ... it depends on the two people involved, and their level of trust. I agree wholeheartedly with your statement. I thought this has nothing to do with how submissive someone can be. It is about so much more. Some people will submit to just anything and that isn't really attractive in my mind. It’s the kind of desperation that is a turn off. My boy will not bow to anyone but me. He is not submissive to anyone else. He's a tough boy who actually holds much power in his everyday life and I'm sure if 99% of the women would try to Domme him, he would laugh in their face. In fact, I know a lot of his female and some male friends see him as that strong guy they can always lean on. That he submits to me blows my mind at times and I do actually see myself privileged to have such a boy. I have earned his respect and his trust and now he tells me that there isn’t a thing he wouldn’t let me to do him. So how submissive is my boy. I estimate 10% to the rest of the world, 90% to me (and I'm not necessarily aiming for 100). - LA

newflowers -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/16/2004 10:10:58 AM)
quote: I'm kind of surprised that anyone who has been involved, even slightly, with Bdsm would consider any answer to this as other than ... it depends on the two people involved, and their level of trust. Not trying to belittle the quest for a simple "tell", just that I've never thought any human relationship could faithfully be determined so easily. I am in housework avoidance and have read this entire thread - I have laughed, given a righteous hell yes in agreement, and shken my head in puzzlement at some of the responses. Perhaps what is needed is BDSM store where one can go to various departments - "Yes LordMasterKing,PashahSir, please come this way to our very submissive/slave/painslut/no limit girls and boys. Oh. Not to your liking, perhaps the next floor down where the submissives are a bit more difficult - really the high maintainence girls and boys, after all, they want to get to know you BEFORE submitting, they actually expect trust first - can you imagine. Too much work, well I certainly agree. We have a large selection of the pretend kind, you know, those intelligent, self-aware types. They closly resemble the high maintainence ones, but are truly worse as they (voice lowers to a whisper) top from the bottom - yes, we find the inventory turn over in this department very slow. We do have a variety of shapes and colors in the play all night group..." I am so easily entertained and self entertainment is good too. Personality tests, hair pulling, nipple pinching, dancing lessons - I do not think that you will find your answer there nor will you find the level of submission in these activities. Looking into the eyes is a good start if you are intuitive and attentive and know what to look for - but that is only a start. I have an idea - while being very aware and open about the need and desire for kink, take time to get to know your new submissive partner. Give them an opportunity to get to know you. Engage in conversation, deep meaningful conversation and silly fun conversation about... everything, to get inside their minds. Behave in such a way so that the submissive feels safe and welcomed when opening up to you. Pay attention to what is said and not said. Respond to what is said and not said. Build trust and open communication. As you do these things, introduce, over time, that which you want in terms of activities and play while continuing to focus on the communication and relationship building. Do not jump from hi my name is to on your knees slut, let me get my whip. Of course, the disadvantage of my proposed method is that it takes time. It would be much simpler to have a fail-safe test so there is no need to exert domly effort to build a relationship and lead your partner into deeper and deeper levels of submisssion. newflowers

BigBadVoodooDadd -> RE: The perfect "tell"??? (10/16/2004 10:34:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: newflowers I am in housework avoidance and have read this entire thread - I have laughed, given a righteous hell yes in agreement, and shken my head in puzzlement at some of the responses. Perhaps what is needed is BDSM store where one can go to various departments - "Yes LordMasterKing,PashahSir, please come this way to our very submissive/slave/painslut/no limit girls and boys. Oh. Not to your liking, perhaps the next floor down where the submissives are a bit more difficult - really the high maintainence girls and boys, after all, they want to get to know you BEFORE submitting, they actually expect trust first - can you imagine. Too much work, well I certainly agree. We have a large selection of the pretend kind, you know, those intelligent, self-aware types. They closly resemble the high maintainence ones, but are truly worse as they (voice lowers to a whisper) top from the bottom - yes, we find the inventory turn over in this department very slow. We do have a variety of shapes and colors in the play all night group..." I am so easily entertained and self entertainment is good too. Personality tests, hair pulling, nipple pinching, dancing lessons - I do not think that you will find your answer there nor will you find the level of submission in these activities. Looking into the eyes is a good start if you are intuitive and attentive and know what to look for - but that is only a start. I have an idea - while being very aware and open about the need and desire for kink, take time to get to know your new submissive partner. Give them an opportunity to get to know you. Engage in conversation, deep meaningful conversation and silly fun conversation about... everything, to get inside their minds. Behave in such a way so that the submissive feels safe and welcomed when opening up to you. Pay attention to what is said and not said. Respond to what is said and not said. Build trust and open communication. As you do these things, introduce, over time, that which you want in terms of activities and play while continuing to focus on the communication and relationship building. Do not jump from hi my name is to on your knees slut, let me get my whip. Of course, the disadvantage of my proposed method is that it takes time. It would be much simpler to have a fail-safe test so there is no need to exert domly effort to build a relationship and lead your partner into deeper and deeper levels of submisssion. newflowers God I love a good sense of humor. I really loved this response and really enjoyed reading it. I hope that you all are having fun. Take care! BBVD

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