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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 8:14:06 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/129921--pump-jump-the-price-of-gas-is-expected-to-rise-6-5-cents-overnight

If you're running on empty, you'd be wise to pump up before the clock strikes midnight because according to gas price watchdog Dan McTeague, prices could hit their highest levels ever overnight --- with a projected jump of 6.5 cents.

That would spike a litre of regular to a pocket-draining 139.6 cents.

The previous high came in 2008, when it jumped to 138.6 after oil traded near $150 a barrel.  

On Monday, the price of crude oil rose more than $5, hitting $102.55 US a barrel.  For drivers that meant the price reprieve that came last week when crude dropped almost $17 a barrel would be short-lived. 

means its gonna go up to $1.42 a litreIMPEACH HIM IMPEACH HIM

What ? Like presidents have any real power to change this.

Once again forasluts, we were warned as we had been by our founding fathers about all of this corruption of markets.

"You know me feelings against setting up a federal banking system and turning paper into money. For if we do that, we will forever...be slave to the speculators." John Adams admonishment in a letter to a friend circa 1820. He and others saw all of this coming 190 years ago and resisted the speculators all of his life.

The price of commodities is set by the latest bid on a piece of paper-turned-into-money, called a futures contract. What could possibly be better than to be able to 'buy' oil without really buying it but only a 'contract' on oil. (gold, silver etc.) So when oil prices are determined between seller and buyer at the refinery, the price of the last futures contract becomes the so-called 'Benchmark' price and otherwise known as West Texas, intermediate crude...sometimes called 'sweet' crude which is lighter in viscosity (same as all Saudi crude) and easiest/cheapest to refine.

So why all of this ? The price is thus a 'bechmark' price not set by the supply and demand in the field, it is set by the futures market...or pure speculation. That speculation can be way off yet it still sets the 'benchmark' price.

Interesting how we now can use Canada...read on kinkroids.

This OP is about the price of gas jumping way up so the refrain becomes supply & demand...drill baby drill. Yet Canada has 9 times the oil reserves than that of the US...2ND to Saudi Arabia in total. So where is the drilling ? In the US there were 10 new permits issued in 3/11 alone to drill off the Gulf coast (the only place of the real untapped US oil)

Contrary to API (American Petroleum Inst.) that says production is way down in the gulf and is destined to go down 500,000/day further which are outright lies, the facts are US gulf oil production is at an all time high and destined to go UP, 500,000/day next year or 2013.

You see speculators like most all capitalists seek to profit from buying and selling paper amd have their own mathematical models similar to all trading now in all paper-markets. Once remaining capacity is down to 4% , speculators...speculate that with any sudden increase in demand...suppliers cannot deliver. Never mind there is never such a real jump in demand, this is the speculators model, relevant or not to the actual supply delivered.

Never mind that a quirk in the US pipeline system has created a glut of oil sitting at our Cushing, Oklahoma refinery, a terminal that starts with the benchmark price reflected by the NY Merch. Exch. So the price in the field...is dropping because [it] cannot refine all of the oil there now...keep up with supply.

So kinkroids, there is a world-wide glut of oil in and out of the ground. Once drilled and available, it is 'in-the-market' and must be priced for sale...NOW. The preference is to find it and NOT drill or actually bring the oil to market or what...the price would fall as it is now at the above captioned refinery.

So bitch all you want, grab ahold of your politically partisan twit-like epithets upon all of the politicians when there are still only a few very lonely wolves put there that suggest what ? TAX the commodity speculators and bingo...much less speculation if any and much less volatility in the prices. Once the speculator leaves commodities and returns to forex, stocks, bonds and the commodity's market, buyers will be...much better off.


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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 10:11:40 AM   
Lucylastic


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Mr Rodgers, I think you missed  my oh so subtle hint of sarcasm but the rest of your post is spot on

Sanity, How about you prove or even attempt to prove what you said?
and  explain why Toronto gas prices  are going up a quarter overnight when it  has naff all to do with the EPA or the president
Or will you yet again, change the subject or ignore my points?


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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 11:15:16 AM   
Sanity


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Anything for you Lucy my love. A few quick examples at least...

quote:



Could a three-inch lizard collapse the West Texas oil industry?



Read more: Could a three-inch lizard collapse the West Texas oil industry? - Mywesttexas.com: Oil http://www.mywesttexas.com/business/oil/article_e7f32d45-fab8-5025-afa9-26a00d768910.html#ixzz1LyMw8ig6
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution



quote:

Clinton Facing Heat on Oil Sands Pipeline




Associated Press Pastureland in north central Nebraska through which the Keystone XL pipeline would be built.

Battle lines have been hardening over the proposed Keystone XL pipeline over the last couple of weeks. The pipeline, which will stretch from Alberta in Canada to refineries on the Gulf Coast, would nearly double the United States’ capacity to import oil made from Canadian oil sands. Canadian oil sands are a plentiful and secure source of oil, but the extraction process is high in carbon dioxide emissions and takes a toll on pristine Canadian forest ecosystems.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton will soon have to decide whether to allow the pipeline construction to proceed next year, and the State Department is -– once again -– studying the potential environmental impact. Environmental groups and a host of government agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency and the Energy Department, had judged an earlier evaluation inadequate.

The heat is on Mrs. Clinton as she tries to balance competing demands. At an event in San Francisco last month, she implied that she was looking favorably on the proposal, although the department’s environmental analysis is continuing. This is what she said:

“We’ve not yet signed off on it. But we are inclined to do so, and we are for several reasons -– going back to one of your original questions –- we’re either going to be dependent on dirty oil from the gulf or dirty oil from Canada. And until we can get our act together as a country and figure out that clean, renewable energy is in both our economic interests and the interests of our planet. I mean, I don’t think it will come as a surprise to anyone how deeply disappointed the president and I are about our inability to get the kind of legislation through the Senate that the United States was seeking.”


Her remarks set off a new round of jockeying, with all sides wanting their opinions heard.

Last week, 11 Democratic Senators seemed to be urging a “no” vote based on climate considerations. In a letter to Mrs. Clinton, they noted that greater reliance on a type of oil known for generating high levels of greenhouse gas emissions would run counter to the Obama administration’s stated clean energy goals. “Approval of this pipeline will significantly increase our dependence on this oil for decades,” it said.


http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/01/clinton-facing-heat-on-oil-sands-pipeline/



quote:

Obama Coal Crackdown Sends Message to Industry



Published January 17, 2011 | FoxNews.com

A move by the Environmental Protection Agency to revoke the long-standing permits for a mammoth coal mine in West Virginia sends a strong signal that President Obama plans to implement key parts of his agenda even though newly empowered Republicans can block his plans in Congress.

In the aftermath of the November elections, many political pundits predicted that the once-unchecked Obama legislative machine would turn it's energies to federal rulemaking as a way to circumvent Republicans on Capitol Hill. And the EPA’s decision last week suggests that those forecasts were spot-on.

Much to the consternation of the West Virginia delegation in Congress, the coal industry, and the working people of the Mountain State, the agency took the unprecedented step of revoking a mining permit that it had issued four years ago to Arch Coal’s Spruce No. 1 Mine in Logan County, West Virginia.

The revocation prompted unusually harsh responses from West Virginia's two Democratic Senators. Sen. Jay Rockefeller sent the president a letter which read, in part: "I am writing to express my outrage with the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) decision to veto a rigorously reviewed and lawfully issued permit at the Spruce Number 1 Mine in Logan County, West Virginia. This action not only affects this specific permit, but needlessly throws other permits into a sea of uncertainty at a time of great economic distress."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/17/obama-coal-crackdown-sends-message-industry/#ixzz1LyTx3P3O



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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 11:17:34 AM   
Lucylastic


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oh good god
are you really that thick
this has nothing to do with the price increase in toronto
what part of that dont you get


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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 11:20:45 AM   
Sanity


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Make up your mind please... you asked for proof one post ago, now youre complaining that I provided what you asked for? 

And yes, actually our policies do affect the the situation around the globe, I am surprised you werent aware of that already









< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/10/2011 11:22:06 AM >


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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 11:28:01 AM   
Sanity


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Id like to see you prove that, because thats a bogus quote...

Sadly, someones been feeding you a lot of bullshit.

quote:

"You know me feelings against setting up a federal banking system and turning paper into money. For if we do that, we will forever...be slave to the speculators." John Adams admonishment in a letter to a friend circa 1820. He and others saw all of this coming 190 years ago and resisted the speculators all of his life.


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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 11:34:22 AM   
kdsub


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In America it will be Obama's fault and the Republican party's fault if 10 years from now we are still depending on oil for our power.

Obama should be making alternative fuel sources and power trains a legislative priority and shoving it down the Republicans throats. Just imagine if we had been serious about alternative energy sources under Bush with the first big oil crisis. We would have been well on our way to energy independence and out from under big oil.

The new industries would have been thriving...providing jobs and allowing us to withdraw from dependence on the middle east.

Butch

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 12:07:43 PM   
Sanity


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"Alternatives" arent economical so shoving "green initiatives" down AMERICAS throat involves forcing traditional energy prices up in order to make "alternatives" more attractive

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122904040307499791.html

So "shoving it down our throats" is what is happening already.

With the with drilling in Alaska and off shore and in Texas and Oklahoma and New Mexico challenged or denied, pipelines mothballed... coal demonized

Whats bizarer yet still predictable is the way leftists are thrilled with all the "green initiatives" that are being shoved down our throats as you say yet how leftists at the same time refuse to take credit for the increase in fossil fuel prices that they are deliberately causing




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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 12:11:33 PM   
mnottertail


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A continuous repeating of a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.

http://www.politickernj.com/45938/senators-demand-oil-companies-use-it-or-lose-it-drilling-leases

Democrats are telling the oil companies, drill baby drill.

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 12:14:11 PM   
Lucylastic


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the deaths of coal miners in WV or Kentucky mean nothing to some it would seem

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 12:47:43 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

oh good god
are you really that thick
this has nothing to do with the price increase in toronto
what part of that dont you get

He's not here to learn with his aversion for objectivity. The oil pipeline wouldn't make a shit pot full of difference as has just been explained...the world is awash in oil.

He's only about partisan political shots when he includes coal the supply of which has nothing whatever to do with gas prices...the subject of he OP. And no, the lizzard has not and will not effect the supply of Texas crude.

Too many posters here think that every well and every source of oil is always running at maximum...they are not. Some inland wells are being held down to 400 bbls./day. There is an obvious reason, regulating the supply to keep the prices up. All of the clamoring to find more oil results in finding more oil...not a reduction in prices.

Where is the mystery here ? All of the new wells and pipelines in the world are now at less than 100% capacity but most refuse to see that. Still, production is such that the prices at delivery...are in fact falling because of the glut of oil already available.

The futures market and speculators keep the prices up and the price of gas up...the fucking useless paper traders.

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 12:55:57 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the deaths of coal miners in WV or Kentucky mean nothing to some it would seem

The capitalist has never had a problem with others deaths and in fact has killed...when it comes to a profit. Maybe it's that endearing historical quality in seeking slaves back in the day...to steal all of their labor. Where does corporate manslaughter rank on our moral Richter scale ? Not very high apparently.

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 12:57:31 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
"Alternatives" arent economical so shoving "green initiatives" down AMERICAS throat involves forcing traditional energy prices up in order to make "alternatives" more attractive

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122904040307499791.html

So "shoving it down our throats" is what is happening already.

With the with drilling in Alaska and off shore and in Texas and Oklahoma and New Mexico challenged or denied, pipelines mothballed... coal demonized

Whats bizarer yet still predictable is the way leftists are thrilled with all the "green initiatives" that are being shoved down our throats as you say yet how leftists at the same time refuse to take credit for the increase in fossil fuel prices that they are deliberately causing

All a rightist rant...and irrelevant.

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 2:28:47 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

A continuous repeating of a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.

http://www.politickernj.com/45938/senators-demand-oil-companies-use-it-or-lose-it-drilling-leases

Democrats are telling the oil companies, drill baby drill.



Sure they are... Obamas EPA team is using bogus air pollution rules to shut down this drilling proposal. Theyre trying to claim that the supply ships will cause unacceptable smog levels in the middle of nowhere

quote:




Energy in America: EPA Rules Force Shell to Abandon Oil Drilling Plans







Shell Oil Company has announced it must scrap efforts to drill for oil this summer in the Arctic Ocean off the northern coast of Alaska. The decision comes following a ruling by the EPA’s Environmental Appeals Board to withhold critical air permits. The move has angered some in Congress and triggered a flurry of legislation aimed at stripping the EPA of its oil drilling oversight.

Shell has spent five years and nearly $4 billion dollars on plans to explore for oil in the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas. The leases alone cost $2.2 billion. Shell Vice President Pete Slaiby says obtaining similar air permits for a drilling operation in the Gulf of Mexico would take about 45 days. He’s especially frustrated over the appeal board’s suggestion that the Arctic drill would somehow be hazardous for the people who live in the area. “We think the issues were really not major,” Slaiby said, “and clearly not impactful for the communities we work in.”

The closest village to where Shell proposed to drill is Kaktovik, Alaska. It is one of the most remote places in the United States. According to the latest census, the population is 245 and nearly all of the residents are Alaska natives. The village, which is 1 square mile, sits right along the shores of the Beaufort Sea, 70 miles away from the proposed off-shore drill site. The EPA’s appeals board ruled that Shell had not taken into consideration emissions from an ice-breaking vessel when calculating overall greenhouse gas emissions from the project. Environmental groups were thrilled by the ruling.

“What the modeling showed was in communities like Kaktovik, Shell’s drilling would increase air pollution levels close to air quality standards,” said Eric Grafe, Earthjustice’s lead attorney on the case. Earthjustice was joined by Center for Biological Diversity and the Alaska Wilderness League in challenging the air permits.

At stake is an estimated 27 billion barrels of oil.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/25/energy-america-oil-drilling-denial/#ixzz1KcnkIEKP



< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/10/2011 2:39:36 PM >


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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 2:31:21 PM   
Sanity


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Generally speaking people like to be employed, they like the state they live in to be productive and not a welfare state... and they like affordable energy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the deaths of coal miners in WV or Kentucky mean nothing to some it would seem

The capitalist has never had a problem with others deaths and in fact has killed...when it comes to a profit. Maybe it's that endearing historical quality in seeking slaves back in the day...to steal all of their labor. Where does corporate manslaughter rank on our moral Richter scale ? Not very high apparently.



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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 2:41:31 PM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Generally speaking people like to be employed, they like the state they live in to be productive and not a welfare state... and they like affordable energy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

the deaths of coal miners in WV or Kentucky mean nothing to some it would seem

The capitalist has never had a problem with others deaths and in fact has killed...when it comes to a profit. Maybe it's that endearing historical quality in seeking slaves back in the day...to steal all of their labor. Where does corporate manslaughter rank on our moral Richter scale ? Not very high apparently.




This whole section about the capitalist is some of the most stupid reading I have done toay.  It is a historical fact that communism and socialism have consumed more lives in proping up those failed systems than an economic philosophy premised on competition that relies on the actions of an individual ever could.  Capitalism is not a political theory but I guess the writer doesn't understand that.  But look at the lives consumed by nazism--a combination of facism and socialism.  Look at the lives consumed by the USSR in the Ukraine alone (10,000,000 people in the 1950's), throw in Mao and a few others.  Capitalism is an economic theory where people make or harvest and sell it for whatever the market will bear.  It is that simple.  The people who believe in a government created utopia are not only dumb but dangerous.

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 5/10/2011 2:42:53 PM >

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 2:48:21 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Hah! That all depends on who is in office, doesnt it!

Seriously though, youve never heard of the EPA? The Department of Energy, etc?

These powerful governmental agencies are directly controlled by the president... and they are currently ACTIVELY cutting our access to fossil fuels

.....................


No, if operating effectively, they are "cutting" you away from dirty water and dirty air. They are preventing toxicity in our soils and preserving pristine areas that are national treasures. They are cutting you away from asthma, carcinogenic substances and water that you can light on fire (fracking for natural gas).

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 2:53:14 PM   
Sanity


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Well then Dems / Leftists should stand up and say theyre proud of the unaffordable fuel prices theyre bringing us. Openly admit to what they are doing instead of the mealy-mouthed half assed denial were seeing after they get what theyve been clamoring for all these years

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Hah! That all depends on who is in office, doesnt it!

Seriously though, youve never heard of the EPA? The Department of Energy, etc?

These powerful governmental agencies are directly controlled by the president... and they are currently ACTIVELY cutting our access to fossil fuels

.....................


No, if operating effectively, they are "cutting" you away from dirty water and dirty air. They are preventing toxicity in our soils and preserving pristine areas that are national treasures. They are cutting you away from asthma, carcinogenic substances and water that you can light on fire (fracking for natural gas).


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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 2:57:11 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

In America it will be Obama's fault and the Republican party's fault if 10 years from now we are still depending on oil for our power.

Obama should be making alternative fuel sources and power trains a legislative priority and shoving it down the Republicans throats. Just imagine if we had been serious about alternative energy sources under Bush with the first big oil crisis. We would have been well on our way to energy independence and out from under big oil.

The new industries would have been thriving...providing jobs and allowing us to withdraw from dependence on the middle east.

Butch



Yes, Yes, Yes!!!!

Just imagine if we would have really used the Department of Energy as intended, (Thanks, Jimmy!!) Just imagine if one of the first acts of RR wasn't ripping the solar panels off the roof of the White House.

We could have led the world in alternative energy technologies and be living like Samso, Denmark. Energy neutral, how does that sound?!

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RE: All Obamas fault!!!! - 5/10/2011 2:58:58 PM   
Sanity


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Doesnt sound like they run many farm tractors, trying to feed the world. or that they have a lot of heavy industry, etc either.

You cant fly a jet on solar, nor can you drive across the Western United States on toxic metal batteries





< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/10/2011 3:02:29 PM >


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