RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It!


Let Everyone stay, enforce immigration laws going forward.
  4% (3)
Pass The Dream Act, they can petition for siblings like everyone else
  6% (4)
Pay for any services used, no crime hx, stay.
  6% (4)
Let anyone here for 5+ years, who passes basic English test stay.
  8% (5)
For a fee, everyone >2 yrs in the US, W/out, Crime record, stays.
  9% (6)
Send anyone here illegally back, to wherever they came from.
  39% (24)
Send anyone without basic English skills, <70yo back.
  6% (4)
If they can speak basic English, pay a modest fee, stay.
  3% (2)
Pay what they've collected from welfare, while illegal, stay.
  3% (2)
Fine employers of Illegals, Use money to deport illegals
  11% (7)


Total Votes : 61
(last vote on : 6/7/2011 3:29:35 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

tazzygirl -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 3:44:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Pops, I never said it should be allowed. But, what do we do with those who are hard working, honest and no criminal record? Hell, how many americans can boast of that?



Ah,......deport them like our govt *should* have been doing all along.
When did enforcing our laws especially our immigration laws become, "optional?"


Pops, deportment would be what they should be doing. Do you see them stepping up to the plate to do so now? Its excuse after excuse... money primarily the problem. Now cities are backing away from the joint venture with ICE in holding those who are illegal.

I understand what you are saying, Pops, and you know I support what you want. I just dont see it being aplied... so we have to come up with some kind of solution.



tazzygirl -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 3:47:58 PM)

quote:

Tazzy, if someone knows they aren't going to file income taxes, all they have to do is claim 20 dependents, and pay nearly zero in income taxes.


It doesnt require 20 to get to that zero level. However, there are certain red flags that pop, that being one of them. Its not about screwing the system, these people want to fly under everyone's radars. They pay a little in, knowing they wont get any back, and are grateful not to be caught.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 4:27:10 PM)

I believe at 10 exemptions is where the employer must file the paperwork. Many small hotels I have done some business consulting for, had many housekeepers set to 9 allowances.



SilverMark -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 4:46:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Tazzy, if someone knows they aren't going to file income taxes, all they have to do is claim 20 dependents, and pay nearly zero in income taxes.


It doesnt require 20 to get to that zero level. However, there are certain red flags that pop, that being one of them. Its not about screwing the system, these people want to fly under everyone's radars. They pay a little in, knowing they wont get any back, and are grateful not to be caught.

Better have Social Security numbers for each of those dependents or you will get one of THOSE letters. I had to have my college aged son re-do his return because he had taken hismself as a dependent and so did I.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 8:33:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
I believe at 10 exemptions is where the employer must file the paperwork. Many small hotels I have done some business consulting for, had many housekeepers set to 9 allowances.
That sounds reasonable. I was using the exagerated 20 for effect, and ended up getting information at the same time. M



juliaoceania -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 9:00:54 PM)

There are a substantial number of people living here that are undocumented, yet they were raised here, they know no one in Mexico, they do not know Spanish, and they are in every way Americanized. I think it is cruel to send such people back to Mexico. Can you imagine finding out tomorrow morning that you were undocumented, that you were in fact a citizen of some country like Haiti where you know no one, do not speak the language, and in essence were a complete and total stranger? This has happened to many people here in the USA... people raised here with no idea that they were not citizens until they went to apply for money to go to college, and then their parents tell them... "Sorry, you can't do that, you aren't really American"

There should be some sort of mechanism by which such people can stay here legally. It just goes against my sense of justice for what is morally and ethically right. By no fault of their own, people like this are sent away from everything they know. It is so common that Mexico has a program to help these people integrate back into Mexican society, but there is never enough money, because there are so many people like this being sent back.



tazzygirl -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 9:30:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Tazzy, if someone knows they aren't going to file income taxes, all they have to do is claim 20 dependents, and pay nearly zero in income taxes.


It doesnt require 20 to get to that zero level. However, there are certain red flags that pop, that being one of them. Its not about screwing the system, these people want to fly under everyone's radars. They pay a little in, knowing they wont get any back, and are grateful not to be caught.

Better have Social Security numbers for each of those dependents or you will get one of THOSE letters. I had to have my college aged son re-do his return because he had taken hismself as a dependent and so did I.


Yes, for tax returns you have to have a SS number. For a W-4, you do not. The W4 is the form you fill out for your employer.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 9:30:48 PM)

Thanks Julia.
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
There are a substantial number of people living here that are undocumented, yet they were raised here, they know no one in Mexico, they do not know Spanish, and they are in every way Americanized. I think it is cruel to send such people back to Mexico. Can you imagine finding out tomorrow morning that you were undocumented, that you were in fact a citizen of some country like Haiti where you know no one, do not speak the language, and in essence were a complete and total stranger?.
I know there are people like this here, of different nationalities, for whom it would be cruel to be repatriated. It's one of many conversations to be had about immigration. The problem, I believe, is neither side of the debate, wants to give an inch.

I agree, it would be cruel, to send people who grew up here, and only know how to be American, back.

quote:

This has happened to many people here in the USA... people raised here with no idea that they were not citizens until they went to apply for money to go to college, and then their parents tell them... "Sorry, you can't do that, you aren't really American"
I did not know about the school assistance situation before, but you have to give that responsibility to the lying parents. If anything, I would tell my uhm to live carefully, if you don't want to learn about a reality which I'm sure you'd rather not.

quote:

There should be some sort of mechanism by which such people can stay here legally.
This is why I like the dream act... It has to go further than the dream act, but this is a start.

quote:

It just goes against my sense of justice for what is morally and ethically right. By no fault of their own, people like this are sent away from everything they know. It is so common that Mexico has a program to help these people integrate back into Mexican society, but there is never enough money, because there are so many people like this being sent back
It's good that Mexico has a program like this. I don't disagree with you, that everyone ought to be given a chance.

The other side of the argument, from other people (noting, this is a country of immigrants), from other countries is: do you have any idea, how many people from countries poorer than Mexico, wish they could come in, have the same provildges, and by the way, you will now learn to speak our language too?

I want it both ways. If I cannot have both ways, where is the reasonable line? M




subfever -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 9:31:02 PM)

FR

If the powers-that-be truly didn't want illegal aliens here in the US, there wouldn't be any, other than tiny fraction of what we have now. All the jawboning and bickering in the world won't change this.

So then... the question becomes: Why do the powers-that-be want them here?



Marini -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 9:52:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

FR

If the powers-that-be truly didn't want illegal aliens here in the US, there wouldn't be any, other than tiny fraction of what we have now. All the jawboning and bickering in the world won't change this.

So then... the question becomes: Why do the powers-that-be want them here?


That is the zillion dollar question, a big supporter of illegal immigration was George W. Bush, as he said, "They are doing work Americans, don't want to do."
.
Anyone that doesn't know how George W. Bush basically supported illegal immigration and just smiled and winked, just doesn't want to know the facts.
As GWB said, "Our economy could not function without the labor provided by immigrants."
[;)]

I wonder if anyone is saying that these days, with unemployment around 16% or higher.

George W. Bush on immigration issues



subfever -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 10:01:06 PM)

quote:

That is the zillion dollar question, a big supporter of illegal immigration was George W. Bush, as he said, "They are doing work Americans, don't want to do."


Yes, well... no politician has the liberty to tell the public the whole story, do they?



Marini -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 10:08:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

That is the zillion dollar question, a big supporter of illegal immigration was George W. Bush, as he said, "They are doing work Americans, don't want to do."


Yes, well... no politician has the liberty to tell the public the whole story, do they?


I can tell you part of the "whole story", as unemployment continues to grow, everything goes up, and more people need more and more "government assistance", shit will be hitting the fan soon enough.

Just sit back, watch and wait.

The revolution will be televised.

I am actually glad, this system is not working anyway, the hispanic population will be a big catalyst in helping to protest, organize, change and create a new system, as this current one, continues to crumble, and gets worse and worse.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 10:17:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
FR
If the powers-that-be truly didn't want illegal aliens here in the US, there wouldn't be any, other than tiny fraction of what we have now. All the jawboning and bickering in the world won't change this.

So then... the question becomes: Why do the powers-that-be want them here?

That is the zillion dollar question, a big supporter of illegal immigration was George W. Bush, as he said, "They are doing work Americans, don't want to do."
.
Anyone that doesn't know how George W. Bush basically supported illegal immigration and just smiled and winked, just doesn't want to know the facts.
As GWB said, "Our economy could not function without the labor provided by immigrants."
[;)]
I believe that GW Bush, liked people, to the extent that he'd been exposed to them, outside of the family. I don't believe he could come up with the solution for illegal immigration, given his brother was married to a latino, and it isn't proper to speak of these issues,in mixed company.

quote:

I wonder if anyone is saying that these days, with unemployment around 16% or higher.
Doubt it. There is still the fact that the vast majority of immigrants (protecting their groups/families), will support the candidate who speaks sofly on the subject, of resolution regarding illegal aliens. M



subfever -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 10:41:00 PM)

quote:

I can tell you part of the "whole story", as unemployment continues to grow, everything goes up, and more people need more and more "government assistance", shit will be hitting the fan soon enough.

Just sit back, watch and wait.

The revolution will be televised.



Yes, that's a part of the story... but politicians can't say that, can they? Order and control must be maintained, but they can't maintain it by telling the truth. The crumbing system has to be propped up for as long as possible.

Nooooo... Greece can't possibly happen here, can it? ... [8|]

quote:

I am actually glad, this system is not working anyway,


Well, I'm glad you recognize the system is not working, as not many do.

quote:

the hispanic population will be a big catalyst in helping to protest, organize, change and create a new system, after this current one, crashes and burns


And this would help the powers-that-be how?

Are you glad the system is not working, because you think the Hispanics will play a key role in what replaces the current system?







Marini -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 10:47:30 PM)

I never said that I was GLAD the system is not working.
I remember when things were fairly "good" for most people in the 80s and 90s, but those days are gone with the wind.

Helped in part by corporate greed, outsourcing, and now just too many people competing for too few resources.


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which way we are headed.

I have recognized for years that the "system" was not working, and it is going downhill rather quickly.

Yes, I did say the hispanic population in the United States will have a large stake in whatever happens in the United States.

Back to the OP, I don't see much if anything happening in the area of "immigration reform".

I have wondered how many millions need to come here illegally, before eventually one day something is done about it.

Why not just let everyone in the world come in?

We are the world, so let's take in everyone in the world.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 11:01:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
quote:

I can tell you part of the "whole story", as unemployment continues to grow, everything goes up, and more people need more and more "government assistance", shit will be hitting the fan soon enough
.
Just sit back, watch and wait.
The revolution will be televised.
I doubt the revolution will be televised. The politicians will find a way, to weasel out of contracts, and appease the loudest of their constituents.

quote:

Order and control must be maintained, but they can't maintain it by telling the truth. The crumbling system has to be propped up for as long as possible
Nooooo... Greece can't possibly happen here, can it? ... [8|]
We cannot become greece, because bankers are more powerful than the poor/electorate. I still wonder what would happen, if we did become... I don't want it to happen, but I wish we could "call bullshit" and let it happen. M





Marini -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 11:05:57 PM)

We can agree to disagree here M.

Too many people have cell phones, camera's and computers for the revolution not to be televised.

What is eventually coming, won't be stopped.

Also, who knows when it will happen?

It could take years and years, but many agree that this "system" is not working, and we need a better one.

I think immigration "reform" is lip service at best, and basically means nothing these days.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 11:11:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
We can agree to disagree here M.

Too many people have cell phones, camera's and computers for the revolution not to be televised.

What is eventually coming, won't be stopped.

Also, who knows when it will happen?

It could take years and years, but many agree that this "system" is not working, and we need a better one.

We can always agree to disagree.
Peace
I was thinking that the revolution would not be televised, given how many people would need to be under the radar, given the circumstances of legality. Otherwise, definitely, the revolution will be televised. M



subfever -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 11:17:33 PM)

quote:

We cannot become greece, because bankers are more powerful than the poor/electorate.


The shit in Greece hit the fan when 40% of the population had insufficient means to support themselves. When a large enough number of people become disenfranchised, beware.




Real0ne -> RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! (5/12/2011 11:21:50 PM)

Ha!

Look up the treaty of hildago and tell me how anyone can enforce immigration



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