RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner

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Hippiekinkster -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/11/2011 10:46:54 PM)
It would never occur to me to shower with a gun.

WyldHrt -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/11/2011 11:37:53 PM)
quote: There are very few instances where a home invasion takes place at all Huh? 'Home invasion' is a catchall term for robberies, rapes, assaults, and murders that take place when a criminal breaks into a home while the resident is there. As in the OP, most home invasions are a single criminal breaking in to rape, rob, assault, and/or kill. Per the FBI crime stats 1990-2009, there were over 88,000 rapes and over 408,000 robberies in 2009. I haven't tracked the direct info, but many sites refer to an FBI report that states that 60% of rapes and 38% of robberies take place in the victim's home. Using those numbers gives you over 207,840 home invasions for the year 2009, not counting home invasions that result in assault or murder without rape or robbery. I wouldn't call that 'very few'. quote: It is much more likely that a gun owner will shoot themselves (intentionally or accidentally), or someone they love, then they will shoot a bad guy. Not to mention the issue of gun safety around children, who often shoot each other with their parent's handguns. Want to own a gun, fine, but unfortunately the odds are you will not protect yourself with it, but instead you will end up killing an innocent person instead... just the way the numbers add up. The overall numbers, as is often the case with stats like this, are a more than a bit skewed. As with traffic accident stats, the overall numbers tell one story; but a breakdown by age, sex, experience, and education tells a different story.

WyldHrt -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/11/2011 11:44:01 PM)
quote: It would never occur to me to shower with a gun. Of course not. Can you imagine the rust issues??? The gun was in the bedroom. She got hold of it when he forced her out of the bathroom and into the bedroom at knifepoint.

WyldHrt -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 12:09:07 AM)
quote: I like to think of them as loved ones with teeth. Agreed. I believe in keeping dogs in pairs (IMO they are happier that way), and most criminals will skip any house with one dog, let alone two. Even little yappy dogs will often convince a robber to choose another house, because they tend to make a racket that will alert the owner when they hear or smell a stranger in the house.

Focus50 -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 4:28:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus Those same people would rather cower in fear in the corner and sadly want to strip the rest of us of our rights and of the means to protect ourselves so that we also have to live in fear of these animals. I'm one of the lucky ones at CM. I live in a modern, western nation that isn't the United States and its utterly insane gun laws. But surprisingly, we don't all just embrace victimhood as you might think and "cower in fear" when the going gets tough. <pauses for the collective gasp> Would I be close if I said gun deaths in the US number in the tens of thousands per year? Hmmmm, suddenly I'm wondering just how many die in Iraq and Afghanistan per year.... Anyway, are they all dirt bags/low lifes/animals that die or is a high percentage (as I expect) innocents? Ok, you're American so it's futile of me to argue that the laws that allow you to arm and "protect" your family are the exact same laws that put assault rifles and worse etc in the hands of those inclined to invade your home. Did I get that right - freakin' assault rifles???? Over here, it makes the news when "overnight, 4 men carried out a home invasion armed with two knives and an axe handle".... True, none of them were shot dead, but.... Focus.

lisub4one -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 6:05:22 AM)
I have been a legal, licensed firearms owner for over 30 years, and was introduced to firearms and competed with them well before that legal age by my family, scouting, and even my high school rifle team. I strongly support the rights of the individual to own a firearm given that they have not been convicted of any offense against society that collectively we have deemed should deny them of that right. With ownership, though, should come responsibility; safe storage, vetting by the licensing authority, training, competency testing, not unlike the process we go through to drive a car. Once licensed, so long as the individual does not do anything that would revoke their right to ownership, why should anyone else care if they own a firearm? As far as the use of a firearm to defend home and family, I see it as a means of last resort. Not so much for the impact of the aftermath on the owner, which can be significant psychologically and phisologically, but for the danger to themself should they find themself unwilling or unable to use potentially deadly force in the defense of themself or another. At that point the firearm, now in the hands of an assailant, may present a greater threat of violence, injury, and death to the owner than was originally posed by the intruder. A firearm as a means of defense requires that the owner carefully consider in advance their ability and conviction to use potentially deadly force, and make that decision part of their practice and the drills they use to build proficiency so they can act instinctively should they be faced with such a situation. I agree that a dog is a wonderful first line of defense, and have a 95 pound rescued pit mix at home who is sweet, gentle, and loving to my family, friends, and even strangers, right up until the moment he perceives you as a threat to a member of his pack. He is a key part of home security, as are good locks, solid doors, outdoor motion sensor lighting, a safe room in the house were we can barricade and call for help, and yes, firearms. While I do not celebrate the death of the attacker in this story I do not shed tears for them either, and do not think that the fact that a firearm was involved in their demise should be the central issue. A person was attacked and successfully defended themself against the miscreant who chose to try and do them harm. That, as a society, is something we should celebrate.

GreedyTop -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 6:22:34 AM)
well said, lisub!!

rulemylife -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 6:25:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zenny You ever bother to look into stats relating to how many crimes per year a firearm helps stop? No I haven't. But since you brought it up feel free to share your statistics. You really don't have any though do you? You're just talking out of your ass. And just to add, I want to see some official statistics, not some blogger's nonsense.

juliaoceania -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 8:09:30 AM)
quote: Huh? 'Home invasion' is a catchall term for robberies, rapes, assaults, and murders that take place when a criminal breaks into a home while the resident is there. As in the OP, most home invasions are a single criminal breaking in to rape, rob, assault, and/or kill. Per the FBI crime stats 1990-2009, there were over 88,000 rapes and over 408,000 robberies in 2009. I haven't tracked the direct info, but many sites refer to an FBI report that states that 60% of rapes and 38% of robberies take place in the victim's home. Using those numbers gives you over 207,840 home invasions for the year 2009, not counting home invasions that result in assault or murder without rape or robbery. I wouldn't call that 'very few'. Actually you misunderstand the term home invasion. Home invasion is a legal term for when someone breaks into another person's home with a weapon with the intent to commit a felony... but in order for it to be a true home invasion the owners of the home must be present. If they break into your house when you are not home, it isn't home invasion. If they break into your house without a weapon, it isn't home invasion. You are also mistakenly believing that every rape that occurs to someone while they are at home is as a result of a home invasion. This is not true. Most rapes are performed by a person the victim knows, and has invited into her home. I am not saying that strange men never break into someone's home and rape them, but it is one of the rarest scenarios. I am just saying, you can lump all sorts of crimes together and call them home invasion, it doesn't make it so.. I coded data on this topic about a year ago, so I am very familiar with what "home invasion" is, and what it isn't, and it isn't a "catchall" term.

juliaoceania -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 8:18:39 AM)
Just to add: Google Search for Information about the Rarity of Home Invasions

zenny -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 8:19:41 AM)
Confirmed for confirmation bias. That is all. lisub4one, While I agree with the thrust of your post I cannot agree with your views that undermine the Second Amendment and make the right to bear arms a privilege. [image]local://upfiles/563385/24E7CB6BC2C5432495C97A57AFE02755.gif[/image]

Lucylastic -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 9:21:10 AM)
TELFERNER (May 6, 2011)--A 4-year-old Texas boy died after he was shot in the stomach by a 5-year-old sibling who was playing with a bolt-action rifle at their family’s home in Victoria County, authorities said. Victoria County authorities were investigating Friday. The boy was shot late Wednesday and his parents were home at the time, authorities said. Chief Deputy Terry Simons told the Victoria Advocate that investigators are trying to determine why the children were left unsupervised. The parents drove their wounded son to a nearby grocery store where the met paramedics, who then rushed the boy to a hospital. Authorities did not say whether the 5-year-old is a boy or a girl. http://www.kwtx.com/statenews/headlines/4-Year-Old_Texas_Boy_Shot_Killed_By_5-Year-Old_Sibling_121385289.html FRANKLIN COUNTY, IN (FOX19) - The 4-year-old son of a Franklin County Sheriff's Deputy has died after he was accidentally shot in the stomach by a gun he and his twin brother found in the basement of their home http://www.fox19.com/story/14044178/4-year-old-shot-in-stomach-in?redirected=true FREEMONT, NC (WTVD) -- The Wilson County Sheriff's Office said Monday that a 7-year-old boy was shot and killed with a BB gun Friday evening. Investigators say it happened at a home on Jaycross Road in Fremont - about four miles southwest of Stantonsburg - around 6:15 p.m. According to deputies, two brothers were playing with a BB gun in their yard when a 4-year-old shot his brother - 7-year-old Alejandro Mejia - in the chest at close range. http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7985035 What a shame the stories of people killing their wanna be killers arent as numerous as these stories3 since feb of this year Yay for gun rights and stupid gun owners Edited to change format

hlen5 -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 9:32:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic TELFERNER (May 6, 2011)--A 4-year-old Texas boy died after he was shot in the stomach by a 5-year-old............... .........Yay for gun rights and stupid gun owners The first tragedy being keeping loaded guns accessible to children.

XXMystiqueXX -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 9:47:31 AM)
What lisub4one said.........I agree wholeheartedly. I was enrolled in a gun safety course when I was 13 years old. Not only passed w/ flying colors but out shot just about every boy there. If you are going to own a gun you MUST educate any children in the house about safety issues AND keep the gun unloaded/ bullets stored elsewhere. On dogs: Statistics prove that the k9 is a far better deterrant than a gun. Look at K9 deputies who are assualted <RARE> vs cops who end up in gun fights. It is just the facts. I currently own 3 German Shepherds and 1 doberman. Friendly yes.......all have been trained as bodyguards. No one visits me unannounced :) They have seen My crew in action! I also own a Sig 9mm and am a permitted to carry it concealed. Using one's head is the key to both guns and dogs.

lisub4one -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 10:01:32 AM)
Zenny, I do consider firearms ownership a right, one for which there must be a show of cause to deny any citizen unencumbered ownership and possession. However, on the issue of firearms ownership, I consider responsibility and rights to be the two sides of the same coin. Freedoms are far from free, and I personally consider my entry fee for firearms ownership a commitment to safety, education, and the ongoing development of proficiency so that I do not contribute to any of the tragedies we read about all to often.

lisub4one -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 10:09:03 AM)
Mystique, thank you... much appreciated. Sounds like a very nice pack you have at home, and I am a big fan of the Sig Sauer, though in .40 S&W as opposed to 9mm.

kalikshama -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 10:45:56 AM)
Can anyone find last year's stats for accidental shooting deaths and injuries? Gun Safety for Kids and Youth What are the statistics about young people and firearm deaths and injuries? ...preschoolers aged 0-4 were 17 times more likely to die from a gun accident in the 4 states with the most guns versus the 4 states with the least guns. Likewise, school kids aged 5-14 were over 13 times more at risk of accidental firearm death in the states with high gun ownership rates. The findings indicate that gun availability is associated with accidental death by shooting Statistics, Gun Control Issues, and Safety [image]http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/jpeg2/FOR114.gif[/image]

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 10:48:18 AM)
AFP...Agence France-Presse? Laughing. Okay, so guns are as emotionally charged as religion, most political discussions, etc. Almost a matter of faith when differing views appear, they threaten to shatter paradigms. Though just one word to one of the sweeping generalities typed here...I am "Left-Wing", I find a lot of progressives very conservative, I believe in sustainability, self-sustainability, hell, I even believe in social programs, though the way they are utilized in this country fall far short of what they are capable of (some European models come to mind)...but I also oppose mandatory helmet laws and I believe in maintaining the right to own firearms, hell, I might even be considered "pro-gun". But I feel that a lot of (not all by any stretch of the imagination) gun owners are ill-equipped to own a firearm. There are the issues that a lot of people do not know how to use a gun properly, not how to fire them, especially in high stress situations, store them, take care of them, etc. A lot of "accidents" are caused through ignorance or perhaps just stupidity... As for "protection", I find that a lot of people get more frightened of imagined threats than real ones...I have never owned a gun (small children at home or lack of money) but I have usually had large dogs, and though Happiness may be A warm gun, I have found plenty of happiness from the chow, German Shepherd etc that I have owned over the years...as well as observed them stop potentially violent situations by either barking or reacting. My kids never worried when they took the dogs out to play or for a walk, even when we lived in "dangerous" areas. Shrug, I suppose you can try to be alert, aware and take care of yourself or be afraid...as for intruders shot by homeowners, I don't celebrate but I certainly don't feel sorry for them and those harmed in gun accidents, that is tragic, and I refuse to get into gene pool jokes. Well, I return you now to your regular programming...

Hillwilliam -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 11:43:56 AM)
After Hurricane Andrew, the winds were down to about 30 MPH and the looters were already out. Several armed looters started up My driveway and decided to go else where when a rifle was pointed at them. Nobody was hurt. They just decided to do the thing that would save their own lives.

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: Private firearms ownership saves another homeowner (5/12/2011 11:54:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam After Hurricane Andrew, the winds were down to about 30 MPH and the looters were already out. Several armed looters started up My driveway and decided to go else where when a rifle was pointed at them. Nobody was hurt. They just decided to do the thing that would save their own lives. There's a good example, my completely unscientific but intuitional sense is that outside of "crimes of passion" or violence between people who know each other, a lot of random acts of violence are crimes of opportunity...and if you come across as a victim, it will be acted upon. I have been threatened and have used everything from attitude, to a car, to a large lead crucifix as a weapon... if there is an easier target, especially someone not appearing frightened behind a gun, they'll go elsewhere. Same as smiling calmly and telling two skinheads getting ready to stomp that it was a good day to die and watching them sit back down.

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