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Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 11:05:18 AM   
lkehoeluckekeh


Posts: 8
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline 		There is a lot of talk on this site about superior women wanting to be obeyed without question and if you become my slave you will have to do everything i say and i will control you absolutely and totally etc etc, but realistically in a world which espouses human rights and in which slavery in any form is frowned upon, you only have to look at the way the law interferes so much in everyday life, is real slavery like the OWK or how some dommes on this site want it, is it realistically possible, after all no one controls someone twenty four seven , people work, people have time to themselves , people have rights , leaving the fantasy aside, i just dont think its possible or realistic, after all slavery is the denial of all human rights and privileges by one person to another, no one has that much control and i am a slave inferior by the way.
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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 11:23:41 AM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I do believe with some it can be very real.

I have a slave bishop,she pretty much does what I want when I want it...but,she works outside of the home,
becuase of that she has some independence,which I think is good.When out and about alone she has her money and can make her own choices.When out with Me,shes more submissive.

When at home its more strict behavior.Way more crawling and groveling.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 11:25:53 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline 		Realistically?  All a "slave" has to do is withdraw consent, get to a phone and call the police to get released from nonconsensual bondage, and the D/s relationship is so over.

But that's really the key.  The relationship would be over if the slave withdrew consent.  He'd be free to walk away, but that would be his only choice at that point.  There are ways to set things up in advance, if you really want to make sure that the slave would find it extremely difficult to walk away.  Some of them are even legal and/or ethical. Some are not.  Historically people have been held in "real slavery" under tyrannical political regimes through threats of violence to themselves or their families and total economic domination and control.  I do not recommend this model for modern safe, sane and consensual BDSM relationships, but other "penalties" for walking away could be set up.  Eg, the slave signs over all money and property in an ironclad legal contract, and if he walks, he does so homeless and a pauper.  I don't actually recommend that model either due to the high potential for abuse (collar a slave, take all his stuff, dump his ass).   But hey, the possibility exists, so if you really want it, it's an option.  A stupid option in my opinion, but an option.

In the real world, it's about consent.  If I'm with a partner, and he has consented to be my slave, my property, then he has no rights.  His rights are replaced by trust in my experience, ethics and standards.  Obviously if he didn't trust me to a higher level than he trusted his own judgement, he'd have no business consenting to that kind of relationship with me.  If he ever withdraws that consent and decides that he is not my slave and does not want to behave appropriately, then he will have breached our trust and very probably destroyed our relationship. 

I have no interest in setting up penalties in advance for walking away.  I don't need or want anyone else's house, car or bank account.  The relationship itself should be of enough value to any partner of mine that he should be willing to keep to his given word and work hard at living up to the conditions he asked for and consented to.  If there came a time that he did not value our relationship highly enough to work at holding himself to those standards, I would no longer be interested in him.  His loss more than mine.  There's plenty of other male subbies out there who would stand in line for the privilege, on broken glass if necessary.  It's annoying to audition subs and weed out the non-serious ones, but I'd eventually be able to replace a sub who decided that he preferred freedom to slavery.  The sub has no similar guarantee of finding another femdom.

Momma taught me never to chase boys, and that goes for D/s relationships too.  A slave that indicates by word or actions that he wants to be free is simply shown the door and invited to leave.  Being owned by me is a privilege, and it has to be earned.  If you stop working hard enough to earn it, you lose it. 

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 11:34:30 AM   
lkehoeluckekeh


Posts: 8
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline 		fair play to you superior Mistress Sassy , you have a deal of control over her although I dont know why you want to control women what gives there, but again you are living proof of my point 24 seven slavery is an illusion, a fantasy not a reality as your slave works outside the home and has a life of her own, but again fair play

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 11:43:55 AM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		After reading Najakcharmers reply...I have to say I follow that same way of thinking.

If at any time slave bishop wants out she can go.And its not about treating her like a worthless piece of human flesh.I'm not taking everything she has to leave her broke if she wants to leave.
I also dont have penelties for dishonesty its automactic dismissal.



I have to mention...with all the mail I get with males wanting to be no limit slaves,I have to wonder how many really know what it entails.And how many are just high on the fantasy.

titleAndStar(81,0,0,false,"","")



_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 12:16:26 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I just don't think there is anything I could add to the post by Najakcharmer.
Well said.

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 12:19:29 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear lkehoeluckekeh, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Is real slavery possible.  Yes, as some countries still practice slavery.
In "modern" M/s relationships there are two parties that have to consent.  The slave is usually the individual that approches the Master/Mistress to petition the terms of enslavement as it is known in the adult pursuits in this community.  However, the Master/Mistress must also give consent to the union as well.  Otherwise, there is a breech.
 
I believe that new terms like 24/7/365 just means that it is other than the weekend meet at the old BDSM club relationship.  More "dedicated" perhaps, to one partnership formed; regardless if single, poly, etc.
 
Realisticly, nobody can be 24/7/365 -- I need to sleep, eat, sit on the throne and look regal for a few moments with a scroll of tissues at the ready, work, doctor appointments and general living.  No different than being a father--it is a 24/7/365 status, to which if the father is at work, does not mean that he isn't as much of a father there as he is at home.
 
Only people controlled around the clock, every day in the year are either in jail, hospitals under medical healing, retired without a life and other similar situations.  But, I'll add they have "shifts."
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs
 
 

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 12:25:28 PM   
Kirei


Posts: 146
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		  Real slavery is possible in modern times.  The real question you need to ask the potential owner is...do they possess the knowledge to know how to balance out fantasy and reality to make your slavery wish seem true to you?  When it really comes down to it, a lot of people don't know how to find that balance.   It is really needed because yes the slave at any time just needs to say I'm done and its over.

Koneko

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 12:44:52 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		It's easy to be a slave.  Just tell everyone you know you are going to England to live, go to Kuwait, find someone looking for an employee, give him your passport.

That's it.

Of course, the question is "can someone get out of real slavery if it turns out not to be fun?"   That one is probably answered, "Nope."

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 1:12:46 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lkehoeluckekeh

fair play to you superior Mistress Sassy , you have a deal of control over her although I dont know why you want to control women what gives there, but again you are living proof of my point 24 seven slavery is an illusion, a fantasy not a reality as your slave works outside the home and has a life of her own, but again fair play


Since when is outside work or a "life of their own" an indication of non-slave status?

That isn't even true with non-consensual or historical slavery.

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 1:17:06 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lkehoeluckekeh

fair play to you superior Mistress Sassy , you have a deal of control over her although I dont know why you want to control women what gives there, but again you are living proof of my point 24 seven slavery is an illusion, a fantasy not a reality as your slave works outside the home and has a life of her own, but again fair play


That depends on what you consider an illusion.

I've been in 24/7 relationships where my collared sub/partner gave themselves over to me to the extent that my decisions absolutely superceded any desires or judgement of theirs.  If I said, quit your job and we're moving to further my career, that would happen.  If I said, I'm going to pierce your nipples and cock, brand and tattoo you, or make other permanent body modifications, that would happen.  If I said, give me complete control over all the money and property, that would happen.  That was not illusion, that was reality.  It was reality because we both consented to this level of relationship, we both wanted it, and we both chose this lifestyle. 

He felt completely safe and happy making this choice because he trusted my ethics.  One 24/7 relationship I had in mind specifically, when I released him, I made sure he was taken care of.  I bought him a car which I wanted him to keep, and made sure he went away with enough money and household items to be okay on his own.  We'd been together long enough that our possessions were pretty much in common, and technically I owned everything, but there was no way I was going to leave him less well off than I'd found him.   He ended up returning the car to me eventually, because his ethical standards were of a similar nature to mine and he wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be the poorer for our relationship either.  I am not rich, and the car was in fact a significant chunk of money for me even though it was a used one. 

Given two people with a high level of trust and ethical standards, and a committment to working hard to maintain a healthy D/s relationship, the power exchange is real.  It's not real because one person is physically incapable of withdrawing their consent. It's real because he keeps giving that consent every single day in love and trust and willing submission.

Me, I can't think of anything that could be more real than that.  I can also imagine a situation of the type you seem to be defining as "real", where a slave is stuck, powerless but hating it, in a situation he really can't get out of.  I can't think of any situation that would be LESS real to me.  If one person in the relationship is staying only because they have no choice, it would suck a whole lot to be the other person in that relationship.  In vanilla terms, we call that a marriage of convenience, staying together for the kids' sake, an abused woman staying with a husband she hates because she can't afford to live on her own, etc, etc.  Is that kind of relationship more "real" because two people who might not like each other much any more are stuck in it? 

You can, theoretically, confine the body and make it physically impossible for a slave to walk away.  But there have not yet been bonds invented that can hold the unwilling heart.  I don't want a D/s relationship with an empty, unwilling body.  I want it from the heart.  I want to live in the willing desire fierce enough to leave marks on freely offered flesh, the love so intense that it takes chains and a collar to express completely.  Anything else, to me, is not real. 



< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 5/11/2006 1:19:22 PM >

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 1:26:26 PM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline 		Greetings,

Yes, I believe it is possible. It is not something practiced by a lot of people, and there are various degrees of it that can be found in modern times. In all ethical set-ups the individual who seeks to be a slave has to be consenting to the actions and conditions -- and has to know what they are getting into.

I also do not believe that having an outside job, or being sent on an errand to get groceries for an Owner makes one who is a slave 24/7 not a slave when outside of the house. As someone else mentioned, one who is a father is still a father even away from the home, and one who is a son is still the son of his parents while he is out of the home.




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Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
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Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 2:07:26 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lkehoeluckekeh

fair play to you superior Mistress Sassy , you have a deal of control over her although I dont know why you want to control women what gives there, but again you are living proof of my point 24 seven slavery is an illusion, a fantasy not a reality as your slave works outside the home and has a life of her own, but again fair play



LOL...@ why I want to control women....actually its only 1 woman,bishop,she is also My partner of  7 years.
I think I may have given the wrong impression,yes she has money to pick up things I need.BUT she doesnt have free reign to come and go. she can decide if she wants chocolate chip cookies or sugar ones....she cant decide that shes going out to party. I dont want is a slave that doesnt report to Me,I want one that can use her brain when needed.

her life consists of working at a 40 hour job and the coming home to take care of things here.
Not much of a freedom,really.

Just wanted to mention...I have males submissives...just none of them are slaves...when I meet one and its a good fit,I will take him in.



_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/11/2006 3:01:36 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		 


quote:

ORIGINAL: lkehoeluckekeh

although I dont know why you want to control women what gives there,
  It is a simple as an advanced kink.

Think of it this way, If you have a love a passion, say cooking, or horseback riding, the longer and deeper you get into it the more rich and textured it becomes for you. Where you may have started with making dinner for you partner years down the road it is not surprising for a day of joy to be one that starts cooking at 6am and creates a 7 course meal for your friends and family.
 
When you get to the point you wish to be a slave and or wish to be an Owner it is because you have cultivated your passion at a more advanced level. But not to worry when you are new, it does look odd from the outside that folks would willingly go into this sort of arrangement, but just know that alot of things look and feel odd in the leather lifestyle at first glance and then slowly you begin to understand....
 
It is this process of slowly beginning to understand which is where the magic is....enjoy the ride not the destination.



quote:

but again you are living proof of my point 24 seven slavery is an illusion, a fantasy not a reality as your slave works outside the home and has a life of her own,


Very true my dear, it is an illusion, all the way up to the exact point where it all of the sudden is not.


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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/12/2006 4:58:36 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

It's easy to be a slave.  Just tell everyone you know you are going to England to live, go to Kuwait, find someone looking for an employee, give him your passport.

That's it.

Of course, the question is "can someone get out of real slavery if it turns out not to be fun?"   That one is probably answered, "Nope."

I've said this same thing to people who cry they want *real slavery*. They have no idea what a real slave goes through and that would be one way to find out, that's for sure.

~Lashra

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/12/2006 7:48:16 AM   
Delighted12003


Posts: 2
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		All my adult life, i have often wondered about the 'real slavery' being possible question, but i have never seen such a wonderfully descriptive thoughtful, truthful, logical and factual answer / explanation as that given by Najakcharmer.
Thank You Najakcharmer for finally giving me the understanding and the answer to a question that has for years eluded me. It is such a great post, and one i am immensely grateful that i found here, so much so that i had to join and post this to truly say how deeply i appreciate and understand all that You wrote. Thank You indeed.

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 5/12/2006 1:52:37 PM   
openmindedslave


Posts: 470
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Really the form of slavery that lingers the longest , is not the physical binds that we shakle ourselves with but mentally confine and restrict our passage in life. The fear of losing someone. The idea we have brought  shame or un happyness to the realitionship. The reality is there are people out her who do seek a sugar slave to  eventually get power of attorney over so as to control their money and in turn take away the power they may have. However , time and time again, we have had  smart and intelligent people of both sexes that have succum to a form of mental bondage with another that  allowed for their wills to be controlled by another... Call it love..Call it  fear of never having someone else in their lives like the person that is there now.. What ever you call it ..In slave the mind so their ownly voice they will  relate to will be yours and you have them ...

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 12/25/2007 12:53:03 PM   
kwtman4u


Posts: 1
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline 		hi... im from kuwait any one like to be my slave you welcom

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 12/25/2007 1:58:44 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lkehoeluckekeh

but again you are living proof of my point 24 seven slavery is an illusion, a fantasy not a reality as your slave works outside the home and has a life of her own, but again fair play


Actually, she's not.  You seem to have a very unrealistic view of what non-consentual real slavery is like.   You *do* realize that, for example, slaves owned in the south made many of their own choices in actions and behaviors throughout the day, right? 

Real slaves throughout history have been thoroughly owned, controlled, dictated to, but didn't cease to have options in themselves outside of what their owners chose to control.  They didn't stop making what choices they were allowed to make or interacting with the others they were allowed to interact with because they were slaves.  Slavery doesn't erase humanity, it limits it's expression. 

There is/was also often a hierarchy within the slaves owned where a particular slave would be completely owned and subordinate in all ways to their master, but in charge of other slaves, having a superior/dominant position over others.

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RE: Is real slavery possible - 12/25/2007 2:06:20 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		To other aspects of your OP and what other folks have responded, consentuality is the key difference. 

Someone not being in one's immediate sight, whether consentually a slave or non-consentually in many places still, doesn't change their relationship to that one.  24/7 TPE doesn't mean the master (in reality or in the verbal shorthand it is in BDSM relationships) is constantly at the slave's side... it just means that master always has the ultimate authority.

The only difference is whether circumstances outside the slave's control causes them to be owned and not to be able to acquire/apply basic human rights to themselves and their situation or if they willingly choose to give up their control to another with basic human rights available to them if/when they choose them. 

Consentuality.   Not proximity or interactions with others.

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

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