RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (Full Version)

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agirl -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/19/2011 1:48:49 PM)

Consensual non-consent. I'd be like pissing in the wind to expect anything else from me.

agirl





petmonkey -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/19/2011 3:48:21 PM)

Short answer:

To give my submission consensually.  

Lately, i've been pondering this part of the definition of consensual:

"3. Physiology a. Of or relating to a reflexive response of one body structure following stimulation of another . . ."

as well as consent in terms of consensus.



tee hee.



PeonForHer -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/19/2011 7:06:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: firedogmilwaukee

Answer as honestly as you can.

Seeing as its a personal question, I expect people on both sides to answer.




I have a feeling that at some of the greatest problems of BDSM lifestyles boil down to the fact that people can't get their heads around the paradox that such relationships are both forced, and consenting, at the same time. (Or could be. Or should be. )

More than that I couldn't really say. Well, I probably could - but thinking about it doesn't give me a boner, which is the prime reason for my being here.

I hope that hinders . . . .



BitaTruble -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/19/2011 7:21:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: firedogmilwaukee

Answer as honestly as you can.

Seeing as its a personal question, I expect people on both sides to answer.




I like chains.. and cages so to give stuff freely just doesn't equate with my biased view point. Rip it from me.. leave me raw and bleeding, uncertain, confused and ever wanting. I, generally, only give freely to charity, friends and family. Give to a dominant? No way.. if he can't take it, he can't have it.



juliaoceania -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/19/2011 8:26:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: firedogmilwaukee

Answer as honestly as you can.

Seeing as its a personal question, I expect people on both sides to answer.




I like chains.. and cages so to give stuff freely just doesn't equate with my biased view point. Rip it from me.. leave me raw and bleeding, uncertain, confused and ever wanting. I, generally, only give freely to charity, friends and family. Give to a dominant? No way.. if he can't take it, he can't have it.


I find this answer very interesting, because somewhere inside of me it resonates on a primal level.... Asking for my submission never has worked for me, it was something that was compelled I suppose.



NuevaVida -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/19/2011 8:31:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I find this answer very interesting, because somewhere inside of me it resonates on a primal level.... Asking for my submission never has worked for me, it was something that was compelled I suppose.


That's what resonates with me.  I didn't give it "freely," which to me would mean he did nothing to earn or deserve it.  His demeanor, character and "whole person" brought me to want very much to submit to him.  He wanted that submission, he took it when offered, and he knew what to do with it.

So for me it was neither "freely" or "forced."



ResidentSadist -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/19/2011 10:17:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
If she's still there in the morning, she consented.

. . . or was caged. 

Just sayin'

[:)]




lally2 -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 4:40:25 AM)

kindof FR, i skipped through.

im with bita here up to a point.  i offer my submission but im not going to give it wholesale as i used to, it has to be taken from me too because i need to know that he wants it that much and that he knows how to take it and hold it.

i suppose in a way its a form of woo'ing here.  its not that its about testing, it is about responding to the other person.  if they dont draw out my submissive elements then im more than likely to be the more dominant character between us.  ill take the reins if they dont because someone has to.  if that happens im not in the least bit interested.

but also this is about that hot question of dragging a sub kicking and screaming to her eventual demise, where she really wants to be but needs a strong man to put her there.

i dont kick and scream and im not about to be dragged to anywhere if the guy doesnt do it for me but i do want to feel that his power is stronger than mine.



DesFIP -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 6:46:09 AM)

If it was consent each time vs c-nc, then frequently both, at the same time. He grabs me, tosses me down, I take it but also pipe up that my foot's cramping in that position. We're people, which means it isn't cut and dried. Hell The Man doesn't consent every couple of weeks to having meatloaf for dinner. I made it once, he ate it without objecting and it still comes up on the menu every so often. You could say meals here are c-nc with me in the power position.

The fact that the op is asking this makes me feel he has zero experience in a bdsm relationship. The fact that he deliberately didn't clarify his answer when asked to also makes me feel he has no power relationship experience but is attempting to appear experienced by being deliberately confusing.

It's much better to be honest about your experience level. Nobody likes a liar.



Kana -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 7:51:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
If she's still there in the morning, she consented.

. . . or was caged. 

Just sayin'

[:)]




I prefer to nail em to the wall.

Q-"What's your slave doing?"
A-"Just hanging around."



petmonkey -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 1:35:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The fact that he deliberately didn't clarify his answer when asked to also makes me feel he has no power relationship experience but is attempting to appear experienced by being deliberately confusing.




i took it as he wanted a bit of thread drift; perhaps to get to know the forum he's in.  *shrug*

At least i didn't feel forced to answer the question. Instead i consented to answer it the way i felt comfortable answering.  Which is the way i like it.

quote:

original: NuevaVida

I didn't give it "freely," which to me would mean he did nothing to earn or deserve it.


Exactly right and right on.  This particular use of the word "freely" didn't resonate with me either. 



leadership527 -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 3:01:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I have a feeling that at some of the greatest problems of BDSM lifestyles boil down to the fact that people can't get their heads around the paradox that such relationships are both forced, and consenting, at the same time. (Or could be. Or should be. )

Not my relationship and I damned well don't want it to be. I don't deal in oxymorons. I don't do "consensual non-consent" and I don't "fight wars for peace". I leave that crap for the politicians who are looking to confuse the sheeple.

For me personally, the words "force" and "consent" don't apply. What does apply is "dominance" and "submission". I didn't "force" Carol to submit. I exerted my will. She agreed. I don't think of her as "consenting" because her consent was too tainted by coercion.

You can keep your made-up paradox for those that like to muddle over paradoxes. In my world, a paradox is a problem indicative of tenuous grip on reality. I like to resolve them. I especially like to not create ones out of thin air.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 3:16:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


That's what resonates with me.  I didn't give it "freely," which to me would mean he did nothing to earn or deserve it.  His demeanor, character and "whole person" brought me to want very much to submit to him.  He wanted that submission, he took it when offered, and he knew what to do with it.

So for me it was neither "freely" or "forced."



Oh I like this statement.

I would say I am not forced, I am compelled.



KayxSlut -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 7:12:02 PM)

Personally, I prefer having my freewill taken from me, instead of giving up fr submission. I like it enforced.



PeonForHer -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 7:53:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I have a feeling that at some of the greatest problems of BDSM lifestyles boil down to the fact that people can't get their heads around the paradox that such relationships are both forced, and consenting, at the same time. (Or could be. Or should be. )

Not my relationship and I damned well don't want it to be. I don't deal in oxymorons. I don't do "consensual non-consent" and I don't "fight wars for peace". I leave that crap for the politicians who are looking to confuse the sheeple.

For me personally, the words "force" and "consent" don't apply. What does apply is "dominance" and "submission". I didn't "force" Carol to submit. I exerted my will. She agreed. I don't think of her as "consenting" because her consent was too tainted by coercion.

You can keep your made-up paradox for those that like to muddle over paradoxes. In my world, a paradox is a problem indicative of tenuous grip on reality. I like to resolve them. I especially like to not create ones out of thin air.



What?? Far out!

In the line I've emboldened, you say that Carol 'agreed', but that you don't think of her as 'consenting' , because her consent was 'too tainted by coercion'. I mean, for feck's sake, do you not see that there's just a smidgeon of contradiction in that line? If not, could you explain how 'coercion' differs from 'forcing'? Or how 'agreeing' is different from 'consenting'?

In *my* world, there are paradoxes lurking at the core of many things that are really, fundamentally important. That's one reason why I know my view of BDSM, in this way, works. Another reason is because I enjoy the paradox and get a boner out of it. I'll do without that sentence of yours, though - sorry, but it gives me a headache!

For me, all this boils down to what is meant by 'resolving'. Usually, people see 'resolving' as involving getting rid of all contradiction. For me, sometimes, it doesn't mean that: it means the opposite . It means a) accepting that something is inherently messy and illogical and b) learning how to have fun with that. The key is to enjoy the tension of it. Pfft. All I can really say is that it's pretty damned good when you get the knack.










PeonForHer -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 7:59:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I would say I am not forced, I am compelled.



Interesting. How is being 'compelled' different to being 'forced'? I have to say, it's only on CollarMe that I've ever seen those two words used as anything other than synonymous.



PeonForHer -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 8:03:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KayxSlut

Personally, I prefer having my freewill taken from me, instead of giving up fr submission. I like it enforced.


But presumably you'd like to retain enough freewill to choose who is going to force your submission, and the way in which he does it?



aromanholiday -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 9:02:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: KayxSlut

Personally, I prefer having my freewill taken from me, instead of giving up fr submission. I like it enforced.


But presumably you'd like to retain enough freewill to choose who is going to force your submission, and the way in which he does it?



I am aware you're not talking to me, but I'd like to answer this question anyway. I, like KayxSlut, voted on the side of force. I'd like to retain enough free will to chose who is going to force my submission, because if I didn't, if I were just randomly for sale at some theoretical auction where ownership of human property is based on having cash not capability, I fear I'd become enslaved to a a total incompetent who couldn't control a jellyfish...and, frankly, that would be something of a waste.

I would not like to retain enough free will to choose the way in which he does it. That's entirely up to him, and while I might not end up liking the methods used, I will like the fact that I had no ability to choose them.



NuevaVida -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/20/2011 9:45:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Interesting. How is being 'compelled' different to being 'forced'? I have to say, it's only on CollarMe that I've ever seen those two words used as anything other than synonymous.



I used to see "compelled" as something that occurred internally. 

"He beckoned and I was compelled to follow"  - - (an internal force - my own will had no choice)

versus:

"He grabbed me and forced me to come to him." (external force - he physically took me and placed me there).

I was called on my use of the word before, so I looked up the word and realized I had apparently been misusing it.  I can't speak for ChatteParfaitt, but perhaps she sees "compel" as an internal force, as well.



DesFIP -> RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely? (5/21/2011 7:01:44 AM)

That's how I read it also. Perhaps it's more American to view compulsion as internal?

However, although I agree with Nueva about him being who he is, which caused me to submit to him, I would like to clarify that for me, there was a degree of consenting as well. I'm a very untrusting person, and despite how I felt, I still waited until I had sufficient info about how he reacts to believe that what I saw was going to be what I got. I overruled my natural inclinations until my mind said it was safe to submit to him.



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