RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX...

RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 7:50:53 AM)
^ so you factor in no debasement?

Musicmystery -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 7:55:56 AM)
Here you go. Read up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation#Causes

SternSkipper -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 8:27:52 AM)
quote: I think Dr. Paul has been hitting his son's nitrous oxide a bit too much! \ Careful with the nitrous oxide references my friend... you'll bring in an AVALANCHE of Groveling NitrousHeads left over from the 1995 Grateful Dead tour[8D]

Real0ne -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 8:39:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: they certain can be and usually are Not even close. About $900 billion in currency and over $8 trillion in money at the time of the link I provided to illustrate (2009). People are rarely paid in currency. Purchases are frequently done without currency. Loans aren't made in currency. Not at all the same. neither is a 100 dollar bill and 100 1 dollar bills, however functionally they are the same. so how does your distinction change inflation It doesn't change anything except your misunderstanding about what constitutes money. The point originally came up in response to those who mistakenly believe increasing the money supply means we print it. Currency and money are two different things. We even measure money in more than one way. Inflation, though, would be a function of the money supply relative to Real GDP. ok then so then we established that money can be currency and inflation is the sum of the whole which is my point. slicing and dicing the different between one debt paper and another makes no difference in the resultant extortion that takes place every day thanks to the present monetary system which brings to mind that if money is a measurement then one can legitimately demand a dollar of what? [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/taxman.gif[/image]

MrRodgers -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 9:07:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: they certain can be and usually are Not even close. About $900 billion in currency and over $8 trillion in money at the time of the link I provided to illustrate (2009). People are rarely paid in currency. Purchases are frequently done without currency. Loans aren't made in currency. Not at all the same. neither is a 100 dollar bill and 100 1 dollar bills, however functionally they are the same. so how does your distinction change inflation It doesn't change anything except your misunderstanding about what constitutes money. The point originally came up in response to those who mistakenly believe increasing the money supply means we print it. Currency and money are two different things. We even measure money in more than one way. Inflation, though, would be a function of the money supply relative to Real GDP. Actually, you are correct. Currency is only truly measured as the cash amount in circulation. The federal reserve in either QEI or QEII, is NOT actually printing money. The fed is not actually making new bills with new serial nos. Do the math, if they were truly trying to inject new paper lets say between the two programs, we have at least $1 trillion. In fact, the printing of new bills and as exemplified by the problems with the new $100 bill, at most Engraving & Printing would produce about 2.6 billion new notes in a year. ($100 bills) At 2.6 billion for the year, for the fed to print up. Now if the fed was printing new money, that's 10 Billion new $100 bills just for a measly $1 trillion. That would take years and a whole lot longer than either 'QE' [sic] Inflation can be from any number of causes. It is most often simply speculation on the paper markets as has been explained many times. However there are also govt. subsidies and product procurement programs that can cause an increase in prices. Inflation from the devaluation of a currency is by the markets through forex arbitrage...devaluing the currency sold, raising the costs of all products priced in other currencies. The rare exception is a govt. announcing a devaluation and printing currency proportional to it like England in the 70's..

Fellow -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 10:04:13 AM)
Coming back to Ron Paul comment, Ron Paul economic understanding is based on common sense. I can understand why money-changers are outraged of the idea. Wrong or right, the idea is not stupid. Collecting useless pricey yellow metal and storing it forever with no obvious purpose raises questions of sanity. The first Paul‘s choice of has always been ending the empire activities (wars, terror against other countries, carrot and stick policies), cutting the government and ending corporate socialism. The real reason why Paul’s idea is discounted is nobody expects the US ever pay its debt. Borrowing in this system becomes the first choice. The people in power will just inflate the currency (this is where gold becomes important) or start WW III. Fiat money major problem is the government corruption.

Musicmystery -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 11:00:51 AM)
quote: ok then so then we established that money can be currency and inflation is the sum of the whole which is my point. slicing and dicing the different between one debt paper and another makes no difference in the resultant extortion that takes place every day thanks to the present monetary which brings to mind that if money is a measurement then one can legitimately demand a dollar of what? Not at all. This shows that you still don't get it. In fact, you've moved backward from where we were. You're also confusing not only currency and money, but also wealth and income. Consider--if we only have $900 billion in currency, and just over $1 trillion in money, how can we have a $15 trillion economy, or $14 trillion in debt? Under your misunderstanding, that simply couldn't happen, because either (1) it just wouldn't be there, or (2) we'd have to create it. Neither is the case. In fact, among the responsibilities of the Fed is to ensure we have enough money to support the level of economic activity (that is, exchanges of goods and services), but not too much (which would be absorbed as inflated prices). A small portion of that will need to be in currency. NONE of that would change with a gold standard, incidentally. That's the part you just don't get.

Musicmystery -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 11:03:53 AM)
To the OP... The government holds financial assets, in foreign reserve notes and gold, as a hedge against international emergencies. This is a wise practice. Americans are infamous for short term thinking. Let's keep one of the few wise practices.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 1:00:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper quote: I think Dr. Paul has been hitting his son's nitrous oxide a bit too much! \ Careful with the nitrous oxide references my friend... you'll bring in an AVALANCHE of Groveling NitrousHeads left over from the 1995 Grateful Dead tour[8D] Or the original Wall tour. For some reason Nitrous seemed to be the drug of choice on Long Island that year! I think half the crowd left looking like they spent too long in a tanning bed those nights.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 1:02:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery NONE of that would change with a gold standard, incidentally. That's the part you just don't get. I.e. ALL money is fiat money. But good luck MM, ideology and conspiracy theories have no time to consider the real world.

Termyn8or -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 8:17:53 PM)
FR All money is fiat money. All fiat money is money. Notwithstanding it's value per unit, it, and in of itself should only be what the market will bear. The universal acceptance of money of any kind it what gives it it's value, nothing more and nothing less. Think of the Milton Bradley game - Monopoly. When in that game, payments are accepted for value. They have value only as points, but you covet them, you strive for them, you are shrewd to your neighbors for them. You will put them out of the game if possible and you will do it many times by skill. They all lust after these "points" just as you do. That is the only thing that gives it value. What happens when you are the ultimate winner ? The game ends. T^T

Musicmystery -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 8:20:08 PM)
quote: Notwithstanding it's value per unit, it, and in of itself should only be what the market will bear. And that's exactly what it is. It's also why a gold standard doesn't work.

Termyn8or -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 8:29:09 PM)
So if we agree that money in and of itself should not be a tangible asset, then it falls on the faith of the creditor in the debtor to eventually pay in something tangible. And that is it's true value in all cases. Technically an illusion, but when the heating bill comes in the winter, they are telling you what is tangible to them. It is then up to you provide what they ask. Otherwise they will stop providing you what you ask. You can have U238, but the gas company has no use for a bunch of that laying around. You could have millions of bushels of wheat, but alas, they have no interest in that either. They ask one thing for what they do. That is it. Convert whatever you have into what they want, after all they did it for you. If they offer you lemonade instead of a fuel source with which to heat your environs, you would refuse. Unless the lemonade was REALLY spiked. T^T

Musicmystery -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/18/2011 8:39:04 PM)
quote: So if we agree that money in and of itself should not be a tangible asset, then it falls on the faith of the creditor in the debtor to eventually pay in something tangible. No.

Termyn8or -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/19/2011 12:16:18 AM)
Well I did say "if". The only problem is that I don't see how someone could disagree. I have a gun worth about a hundred bucks, you cannot buy it for ANY amount of money. I do not agree to the terms. After all it makes a great drop piece. In fact I don't know what if anything I would trade it for. Whatcha got ? Forget cash, currency, whatever. What is it ? I got a guitar worth about $500. The gas company would like that money, but they can't , well I don't owe them that much, less then $200. Can they force me to exchange it ? Not this time of year. I refuse. What is your money or check or promissory note worth now ? You wanna buy some jumbo shrimp frozen ? I got some beauties, a whole big bag of them. What you got for them ? Well that would depend on what they're worth to you. There are a shitload of things I have that I would never trade for currency, money, certificates of anything, or anything else, unless I deem it worth more. The "value" of money has nothing to do with it. Vertical milling machine ? Get your own. Dumore, get your own. Engine lathe, get your own. I don't care how much money you got. Or checks, balances or anything. Deposit one million dollars in my account, and try for my thermite. Not saffron. Thermite. Large fresnel lenses, well maybe one or two, but no more than that, and certainly never the last one. Money doesn't matter anymore to me. I know real value. T^T

Musicmystery -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/19/2011 7:22:08 AM)
quote: The only problem is that I don't see how someone could disagree. For reasons already elaborated. The rest of your post has nothing to do with money/currency/etc. It's about demand.

pahunkboy -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/19/2011 7:25:18 AM)
Then we agree? We should not sell the gold.

Musicmystery -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/19/2011 7:33:39 AM)
On that point, but for different reasons, yes.

pahunkboy -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/19/2011 7:35:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery On that point, but for different reasons, yes. Sounds good to me. The end result is what is important.

Musicmystery -> RE: RON PAUL: SELL THE GOLD IN FORT KNOX... (5/19/2011 7:38:50 AM)
Ron Paul is a financial iconoclast. He'd attack anything in place just because it exists. This issue is no exception.

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