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RE: Is employment a right part duex - 5/20/2011 1:48:52 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

There is the monied investor class, and then there is the rest of us.

Not really anymore. Middle class investors are common, particularly in retirement funds, but also for excess savings.

The poorest 20 % of Americans own zero stock, the next 30 % own 1% of all stocks. We are up to 1/2 the people now.

The richest 1% of Americans as of 2007 owned 89% of all stocks. It is our estimated $6 trillion in 401K's, Keoughs, IRA's etc. that makes up the pool of money from which the biggies, bankers and brokers and their clients...make money as they do not actually risk very much of their money. That's why that of 11,000 mutual funds in 2010, all but 7...lost money. That's not unusual either. Why ?

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/20/2011 2:35:46 PM >

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RE: Is employment a right part duex - 5/20/2011 1:57:16 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

That's why that of 11,000 mutual funds in 2010, all but 7...loss money. That's not unusual either. Why ?

Well first, because the markets are down. Hello. Stocks are not a good short term investment. Nor are they the only investment option. If you want to talk about just stocks now, be realistic. This started as a real estate business creating a job. Remember? Your example. Long term, stocks perform well. Pick an index fund and hold. Don't make it your only asset.

Look, I've got thousands in timber that cost me some work and $200. Similar situation with my orchard, though it cost more to plant. And a sizeable retirement fund. There are options--even for starving musicians.

Americans are notoriously poor savers. Even a little adds up.

Granted, wealthy people have more investments. It's a capitalist society. Grow your capital.

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RE: Is employment a right part duex - 5/20/2011 1:59:41 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm not promoting the point, just sharing the other side of the spectrum.

But the argument would be that lower taxes encourage investment, which does in fact create jobs (e.g., the example MR proposed).

I would love to see some tax credits for job creation, instead of a tax code that contributed to offshoring our jobs. If we penalized companies who did sent jobs overseas, and rewarded those who didn't, that would be much more fair.

The only way to promote the creation of jobs is to create demand and from those that have enough to...fulfill that demand. What we are discovering since the recent meltdown in particular is that the middle class, being poorer, had to borrow against their house to fulfill demand some of which was yes, decadence but now with housing in a depression... the America middle-class is being thrown out of the economy and most are...simply broke.

There are existing tax credits for creating jobs and there has been a small business tax cut. That will not create jobs because employers still don't see more demand sufficient to hire with the exception of a very few industries.

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RE: Is employment a right part duex - 5/20/2011 2:18:36 PM

juliaoceania

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Joined: 4/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sounds good on paper. But in a multinational corporate world, an invitation to simply move to a more favorable country (and tax code).

Well, the Republican Party gave these cocksuckers (those who take our jobs overseas while buying our political system) everything they wanted all through the 2000s. They did away with Clinton's tax code, they increased military spending, they decreased social spending... so, tell me, what isn't working in reality, rather than "what looks good on paper".. because this economic reality stinks

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RE: Is employment a right part duex - 5/20/2011 2:33:23 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

That's why that of 11,000 mutual funds in 2010, all but 7...loss money. That's not unusual either. Why ?

Well first, because the markets are down. Hello. Stocks are not a good short term investment. Nor are they the only investment option. If you want to talk about just stocks now, be realistic. This started as a real estate business creating a job. Remember? Your example. Long term, stocks perform well. Pick an index fund and hold. Don't make it your only asset.

Look, I've got thousands in timber that cost me some work and $200. Similar situation with my orchard, though it cost more to plant. And a sizeable retirement fund. There are options--even for starving musicians.

Americans are notoriously poor savers. Even a little adds up.

Granted, wealthy people have more investments. It's a capitalist society. Grow your capital.

Markets had risen substantially from their 2009 lows. The Dow and others were way up and had almost doubled by 2011. My point is that be it paper whether stocks, bonds or futures...name it, or art, real estate...i.e., anything I buy, held a year and sell after what I call short term the tax code calls long term, one year, I sell it at a profit, enjoys a 15% tax rate and need not create a single job.

Yes, it is a capitalist society and one that favors the investor his income, his taxes and his political power, all at the expense of the rest...of society. More than 1/2 of the working class...have no capital to grow. They owe, they owe...the company store.

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