Is employment a right part duex (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> Is employment a right part duex (5/18/2011 6:28:23 PM)

Let's experiment with a different standpoint. There was a time when we had employment. Probably never full employment, but adequate. People bought things and actually paid for them. Of course there were less things, but there were more than before. The system worked an a hell of alot of people were happy with it, Of course some were exploited, but fewer than today, wouldn't ya say ?

What made it work ? I think work made it work. Now, what do we expect from "our" government ? People are talking free healthcare and all this, some even like the bank bailouts, the fact the we are going to sell the only lawful currency we have, which is the gold in Fort Knox. That debate aside, but what has brought us to this point ? When the system worked this idea would never even have a turkey eggs chance in Antarctica of sperminating a treated two by four.

What changed ? Well you know it as well as I do. Free trade. (not fair trade)Trading with countries who are out for their own best interests, (don't hold that against them) but aren't really enemies. We invented half the shit they build. OK, they have excelled in it, but they have, but principle that are not only foreign to us, but also regugnant to those who think in the long term. The basic principle is that government has filed us. They have failed to recognize foreign and trade policies that are not in our best interest. They implemented just around the time things, REAL things starting going down. Remember before when less was more ? Betcha don't.

Remember in other countries as well when things were better. I hear a few good things, mostly putting us down because of a bunch of shit, which is mostly true. Like what we spend on military and medical, and a few other things.

How did this happen ? Big money made bigger money. They bought the game. This was the best game in town, while we still made our first Wife the racecar, they got their "better" policies in. Better for them.

So if this contry's economy is so important, wasn't it the government's job to keep an eye on it ? Back to 1933, to STAY in power FDR did what he did. What President would get reelected by people who starved to death ?

If you don't understand by now that this is all a class war, you never will. When was the last time you met a senator, or how about a congressman, the mayor, a city councilman, the DOG CATCHER ! But you do meet city inspectors from time to time.

OK, that was too colloquial, but the point is, do they ever get any direct input from people who can say "I got X people who are going to vote your ass out, no matter who opposes you". We can't get the solidarity together for any influence on a city coucilman.

And THAT is what must change.

T^T




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/18/2011 8:11:19 PM)

Too bad youre wrong. It has nothing to do with Free Trade, and everything to do with "The Great Society".




Fellow -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/18/2011 9:47:29 PM)

quote:

Too bad youre wrong. It has nothing to do with Free Trade, and everything to do with "The Great Society".


Without The Great Society (for borrowed money) and with "Free Trade" (de-industrialized service economy) we would have been a Banana Republic without bananas long time ago.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/18/2011 11:17:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Too bad youre wrong. It has nothing to do with Free Trade, and everything to do with "The Great Society".


Without The Great Society (for borrowed money) and with "Free Trade" (de-industrialized service economy) we would have been a Banana Republic without bananas long time ago.


The global economy is unavoidable. Draining money out of the domestic economy isnt. Bananas dont grow in a sinkhole.




Termyn8or -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/18/2011 11:19:29 PM)

FR

That's what they taught you all to think eh ?

They did a good job. Is anyone old enough to remember anything anymore ? Only me left ?

You'll be glad when I'm gone I guess. It's not a class war eh ? Then what is it ?

T^T




Fellow -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 12:43:16 AM)

If I am not mistaken, Soviet Union considered employment a right. In theory, I think, the economic system should take care of well being of most citizens. There are no productive jobs for everybody in modern economy: many people are unemployed and even more produce nothing useful. The solution could be a national dividend paid to everybody and allowing low level of material existence. 




Termyn8or -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 12:56:51 AM)

"Too bad youre wrong. It has nothing to do with Free Trade, and everything to do with "The Great Society""

I'm not wrong, I actually agree. But then who is to be included and excluded ?

Riddle me that.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 12:58:14 AM)

"If I am not mistaken, Soviet Union considered employment a right."

Each according to his needs, each according to his abilities.

T^T




ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 7:26:30 AM)

I agree with you on all counts.

1. Free trade and millions of american jobs outsourced to other countries has had a devastating effect on our country.
2. There was a time that if something had "Made in America" stamped on it, it was taken for granted that whatever it was, it was high quality product.
3. Class war is closer than many people think. The gap between the haves and the have nots gets bigger everyday. Someone quoted on another thread that people do whatever they have to to keep from starving. Political powers try to make it a matter of lib vs con, or black vs white or nat born vs immigrants. THOSE ARE RED HERRINGS. (Before someone says "but those are real issues." I agree they ARE real issues but they are not the real problem.) The whole thing boils down to socio-economic class. Some people have more than they will ever need or be able to use while others struggle and die from not having enough to survive. And the haves make their excess on the backs and at the expense of the have nots. At some point this will come to a head. The next civil war in this country will not be about race it will be about money.




Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 7:37:02 AM)

quote:

1. Free trade and millions of american jobs outsourced to other countries has had a devastating effect on our country.


You're ignoring the trillions in exports and the jobs those bring.

As well as the mutual benefits comparative advantage brings to both trading partners.

Unless you feel much more expensive goods is the key to helping people.




ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 7:44:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Unless you feel much more expensive goods is the key to helping people.


I don't know.....maybe it is the key..... So far cheaper goods has not seemed to have much of a positive effect on our economy. Just the opposite. So maybe its time to try some different things.




Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:02:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ebonywarqueen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Unless you feel much more expensive goods is the key to helping people.


I don't know.....maybe it is the key..... So far cheaper goods has not seemed to have much of a positive effect on our economy. Just the opposite. So maybe its time to try some different things.

quote:

(in reply to Musicmystery)


Well, try it. Get everyone to give up 1/3 of their stuff.

They'd have extra funds. But Americans don't save--they borrow. And then look for whom or what to blame.

Try it yourself. Set aside 50% of what you spend on everything (i.e, as if you're buying it now for 2/3 of what it really would cost under your system) and see how you do for a year. Let us know.




ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:26:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, try it. Get everyone to give up 1/3 of their stuff.

They'd have extra funds. But Americans don't save--they borrow. And then look for whom or what to blame.

Try it yourself. Set aside 50% of what you spend on everything (i.e, as if you're buying it now for 2/3 of what it really would cost under your system) and see how you do for a year. Let us know.


I don't have a system. I am just saying the free trade agreement is not the answer either. It has helped no one but big business and most Americans are very unhappy with it. The US needs to try some different things and find better solutions because so far NAFTA has not been the "great white hope" we were promised it would be.




Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:28:17 AM)

And I'm pointing out to you that it has helped, despite your perspective (based on no data).

Mexico and Canada are our largest markets. Larger than China.

That means net jobs. Many, many net jobs.




ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:28:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, try it. Get everyone to give up 1/3 of their stuff.



Very interesting choice of words- STUFF. That's a major problem in our country. GREED over NEED. People have a lot of STUFF and the vast majority of it is toys and trinkets (mostly made in china) that we don't really need. STUFF is killing our country.




Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:30:10 AM)

If you're correct, than an economic slowdown should be no hardship...people just omit the stuff.

Try that, see how people react.




ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:30:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And I'm pointing out to you that it has helped, despite your perspective (based on no data).

Mexico and Canada are our largest markets. Larger than China.

That means net jobs. Many, many net jobs.


If there are many many net jobs why are 13 million Americans unemployed??? Why did 1 MILLION people apply for 65,000 jobs at McDonalds??? Show me the data on these jobs.




Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:32:27 AM)

You're deliberately ignoring the point. How many more jobs would be lost if we exported over 2 trillion dollars less each year?

Because that's what trade means.






ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:33:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If you're correct, than an economic slowdown should be no hardship...people just omit the stuff.

Try that, see how people react.


Actually in this economy a lot of people have had to trim the fat. With so many unemployed a lot of people have had no choice but to focus a little less on stuff. And none of them are complaining because they realize that the STUFF really was not as important as they thought it was when faced with their real life needs. When tested Americans surprisingly tend rise to the occasion.




ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:35:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You're deliberately ignoring the point. How many more jobs would be lost if we exported over 2 trillion dollars less each year?

Because that's what trade means.


I never said we should not TRADE. Show me where I did.




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